Bulletguy Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Totally bonkers. An NHS GP is facing deportation purely through HO stupidity. Dr Mu-Chun Chiang said. “they seem very keen to get rid of me. To have someone just kick you out is a pretty nasty feeling. I want to stay and train as a GP. I really enjoy working as a doctor and in the NHS.” The Home Office based its decision to remove Chiang on her making a minor mistake in the paperwork she submitted with her application. Those seeking a tier two visa must be able to prove they have held at least £945 in their bank account for 90 consecutive days up until a month before they submit their application. But while Chiang had enough money in her savings account, she submitted statements relating to her current account, the balance of which dipped below £945 for some of the 90-day period. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/02/nhs-doctor-mu-chun-chiang-faces-deportation-visa-application-error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 So she cocked it up. I really sympathise but like with all bureauracy if you get the paperwork wrong......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 Not really. She submitted copy of her current account which dipped below £945 for some of the 90-day period. When offered evidence of her savings account the HO didn't want to know. Ah well, it's got one more funny foreigner type booted out of the country eh? These cases aren't isolated - they are happening with far too much regularity. https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-12/applications-for-eu-settlement-scheme-top-1-5m-says-home-office/ https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/30/french-chef-richard-bertinet-settled-status-uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Yup did read about it, she is being hard done by. Needs some common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 This appears to be the result of our arbitrary “tick box” points-based system. When I hear politicians lauding such a process it makes me want to scream that such a system is arbitrary and denies decision makers any scope within which to identify genuine applicants from the disingenuous. What works for Australia is not necessarily what will work for the UK. We only have to look at how Mrs Thatcher decided that the Australian model for securing child maintenance has proved a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-10-03 9:56 PM This appears to be the result of our arbitrary “tick box” points-based system. When I hear politicians lauding such a process it makes me want to scream that such a system is arbitrary and denies decision makers any scope within which to identify genuine applicants from the disingenuous. What works for Australia is not necessarily what will work for the UK. We only have to look at how Mrs Thatcher decided that the Australian model for securing child maintenance has proved a disaster. Not sure what the Oz system for child maintenance is but our own proved catastrophic directly responsible for numerous suicides. Regards the doctor lady what i find silly is HO expecting people to keep £950 in a current account where it's doing nothing. Most will put the bulk of their money in a savings account, ISA or bonds. Santander pay a small interest on current account and far as i know that's the only one that does. Anyway the HO are just being obtuse and petty imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 jumpstart - 2019-10-03 7:28 PM So she cocked it up. I really sympathise but like with all bureauracy if you get the paperwork wrong......... It took me 3 attempts to get my padron in Spain ;-) .......... Unlike the Loser Brigade I didn't revert to drama queen mode *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 They keep mentioning the Australian based points system forgetting that firstly its been tried before here and secondly it was dismissed back in 2016 as unworkable here. Its another soundbite I suppose. interesting article here. https://www.freemovement.org.uk/uk-politicians-australian-style-immigration-system/ "it is surprising to hear discussion of the points system as a tool to reduce migration. It has traditionally been used by countries with liberal migration policies seeking to admit more people than would come to the country through employer-sponsored migration alone… In Australia and New Zealand, which both have points systems, the share of the population that was born abroad had reached 28% by 2013 – roughly double the UK share." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-10-04 8:29 AM They keep mentioning the Australian based points system forgetting that firstly its been tried before here and secondly it was dismissed back in 2016 as unworkable here. Its another soundbite I suppose. interesting article here. https://www.freemovement.org.uk/uk-politicians-australian-style-immigration-system/ "it is surprising to hear discussion of the points system as a tool to reduce migration. It has traditionally been used by countries with liberal migration policies seeking to admit more people than would come to the country through employer-sponsored migration alone… In Australia and New Zealand, which both have points systems, the share of the population that was born abroad had reached 28% by 2013 – roughly double the UK share." You are comparing two countries that until 249 years ago had never seen a migrant with a country that has had immigration for 2000+ years *-) .......... Migration is never much of a problem until it becomes uncontrolled >:-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 The issue is not whether we ought to have immigration controls at all but what form they should take. The absence of a points based system does not equal the absence of immigration controls. This constant reference to points-based systems by politicians perpetuates the myth that we don’t have one already and that such a system is effective in controlling migration. We have had such a system for admitting workers, investors, the self-sufficient, students etc since 2008. It was introduced by a Labour government and it has been tweaked and made more complex by successive governments. Figures from the ONS show net migration figures for non-EU citizens in 2018 reached their highest level since 2004. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/february2019 Makes you wonder whether the politicians that promote such a system in answer to public demand for reducing net migration have any idea about how to go about reducing net migration. Perhaps they haven’t bothered to learn anything about what works and what does not. Perhaps some of them know that a points-based system doesn’t reduce net migration and know how to fool the public into thinking that they are serious about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 I should think this decision was made by a computer - a good example of what happens as, increasingly, what is laughingly known as " artificial intelligence " takes over. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-10-04 9:35 AM The issue is not whether we ought to have immigration controls at all but what form they should take. The absence of a points based system does not equal the absence of immigration controls. This constant reference to points-based systems by politicians perpetuates the myth that we don’t have one already and that such a system is effective in controlling migration. We have had such a system for admitting workers, investors, the self-sufficient, students etc since 2008. It was introduced by a Labour government and it has been tweaked and made more complex by successive governments. Figures from the ONS show net migration figures for non-EU citizens in 2018 reached their highest level since 2004. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/february2019 Makes you wonder whether the politicians that promote such a system in answer to public demand for reducing net migration have any idea about how to go about reducing net migration. Perhaps they haven’t bothered to learn anything about what works and what does not. Perhaps some of them know that a points-based system doesn’t reduce net migration and know how to fool the public into thinking that they are serious about it. Earlier this year the ONS were forced to admit that their immigration figures were wildly inaccurate. Unsurprisingly they had a bias which benefitted Remainers. Their figures had previously underestimated the number of EU immigrants and overestimated non EU immigration. If anyone believes that is coincidence then I feel sorry for them. Politics is a dirty business. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-10-04 8:24 AM jumpstart - 2019-10-03 7:28 PM So she cocked it up. I really sympathise but like with all bureauracy if you get the paperwork wrong......... It took me 3 attempts to get my padron in Spain ;-) .......... Unlike the Loser Brigade I didn't revert to drama queen mode *-) ......... There's a vast difference between your duplicitous conniving as an overstayer in Spain and Dr Chiangs legitimate application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 malc d - 2019-10-04 10:22 AM I should think this decision was made by a computer - a good example of what happens as, increasingly, what is laughingly known as " artificial intelligence " takes over. :-( Quite possibly Malc. Ai wouldn't "know" to "look" if Dr Chiang had any other accounts and the HO is no doubt short of human drones which could have sorted this in seconds by speaking to the applicant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 747 - 2019-10-04 11:51 AM Violet1956 - 2019-10-04 9:35 AM The issue is not whether we ought to have immigration controls at all but what form they should take. The absence of a points based system does not equal the absence of immigration controls. This constant reference to points-based systems by politicians perpetuates the myth that we don’t have one already and that such a system is effective in controlling migration. We have had such a system for admitting workers, investors, the self-sufficient, students etc since 2008. It was introduced by a Labour government and it has been tweaked and made more complex by successive governments. Figures from the ONS show net migration figures for non-EU citizens in 2018 reached their highest level since 2004. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/february2019 Makes you wonder whether the politicians that promote such a system in answer to public demand for reducing net migration have any idea about how to go about reducing net migration. Perhaps they haven’t bothered to learn anything about what works and what does not. Perhaps some of them know that a points-based system doesn’t reduce net migration and know how to fool the public into thinking that they are serious about it. Earlier this year the ONS were forced to admit that their immigration figures were wildly inaccurate. Unsurprisingly they had a bias which benefitted Remainers. Their figures had previously underestimated the number of EU immigrants and overestimated non EU immigration. If anyone believes that is coincidence then I feel sorry for them. Politics is a dirty business. ;-) Do we know how wildly inaccurate 747? Was much so that it could be said that there was no upward trend in non-EU migration over the last decade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-10-04 1:12 PM 747 - 2019-10-04 11:51 AM Violet1956 - 2019-10-04 9:35 AM The issue is not whether we ought to have immigration controls at all but what form they should take. The absence of a points based system does not equal the absence of immigration controls. This constant reference to points-based systems by politicians perpetuates the myth that we don’t have one already and that such a system is effective in controlling migration. We have had such a system for admitting workers, investors, the self-sufficient, students etc since 2008. It was introduced by a Labour government and it has been tweaked and made more complex by successive governments. Figures from the ONS show net migration figures for non-EU citizens in 2018 reached their highest level since 2004. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/february2019 Makes you wonder whether the politicians that promote such a system in answer to public demand for reducing net migration have any idea about how to go about reducing net migration. Perhaps they haven’t bothered to learn anything about what works and what does not. Perhaps some of them know that a points-based system doesn’t reduce net migration and know how to fool the public into thinking that they are serious about it. Earlier this year the ONS were forced to admit that their immigration figures were wildly inaccurate. Unsurprisingly they had a bias which benefitted Remainers. Their figures had previously underestimated the number of EU immigrants and overestimated non EU immigration. If anyone believes that is coincidence then I feel sorry for them. Politics is a dirty business. ;-) Do we know how wildly inaccurate 747? Was much so that it could be said that there was no upward trend in non-EU migration over the last decade? I linked to the report from the ONS a while back about their miscalculation. If I have time I will try to find it. From memory they were 28% out (low) with the EU Nationals and about 20% out (high) with non EU. The original (wrong) figures made it look like we were being flooded by non EU immigrants. ie: Not flooded by the good guys, swamped by the bad guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-10-04 12:32 PM pelmetman - 2019-10-04 8:24 AM jumpstart - 2019-10-03 7:28 PM So she cocked it up. I really sympathise but like with all bureauracy if you get the paperwork wrong......... It took me 3 attempts to get my padron in Spain ;-) .......... Unlike the Loser Brigade I didn't revert to drama queen mode *-) ......... There's a vast difference between your duplicitous conniving as an overstayer in Spain and Dr Chiangs legitimate application. How am I overstaying? :-S ......... We haven't left yet >:-) ....... At least the UK has started a system to allow useful immigrants to stay ;-) ....... Unlike the EU *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 747 - 2019-10-04 5:01 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-04 1:12 PM 747 - 2019-10-04 11:51 AM Violet1956 - 2019-10-04 9:35 AM The issue is not whether we ought to have immigration controls at all but what form they should take. The absence of a points based system does not equal the absence of immigration controls. This constant reference to points-based systems by politicians perpetuates the myth that we don’t have one already and that such a system is effective in controlling migration. We have had such a system for admitting workers, investors, the self-sufficient, students etc since 2008. It was introduced by a Labour government and it has been tweaked and made more complex by successive governments. Figures from the ONS show net migration figures for non-EU citizens in 2018 reached their highest level since 2004. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/february2019 Makes you wonder whether the politicians that promote such a system in answer to public demand for reducing net migration have any idea about how to go about reducing net migration. Perhaps they haven’t bothered to learn anything about what works and what does not. Perhaps some of them know that a points-based system doesn’t reduce net migration and know how to fool the public into thinking that they are serious about it. Earlier this year the ONS were forced to admit that their immigration figures were wildly inaccurate. Unsurprisingly they had a bias which benefitted Remainers. Their figures had previously underestimated the number of EU immigrants and overestimated non EU immigration. If anyone believes that is coincidence then I feel sorry for them. Politics is a dirty business. ;-) Do we know how wildly inaccurate 747? Was much so that it could be said that there was no upward trend in non-EU migration over the last decade? I linked to the report from the ONS a while back about their miscalculation. If I have time I will try to find it. From memory they were 28% out (low) with the EU Nationals and about 20% out (high) with non EU. The original (wrong) figures made it look like we were being flooded by non EU immigrants. ie: Not flooded by the good guys, swamped by the bad guys. I am totally prepared to accept your recollection 747. I can see why the ONS have come in for criticism and a degree of suspicion since it appears that they underestimated the level EU migration at a time when that was about to become politically sensitive due to the commitment of the Conservatives to hold a referendum. My point is not concerned with the comparison between EU and non-EU migration. It is solely that this penchant for holding a “points-based” system as a means of controlling migration, be that from EU and non-EU countries, fails to take account of how such a system has proved inadequate when it comes to limiting net migration to a level acceptable to the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-10-04 5:21 PM Bulletguy - 2019-10-04 12:32 PM pelmetman - 2019-10-04 8:24 AM jumpstart - 2019-10-03 7:28 PM So she cocked it up. I really sympathise but like with all bureauracy if you get the paperwork wrong......... It took me 3 attempts to get my padron in Spain ;-) .......... Unlike the Loser Brigade I didn't revert to drama queen mode *-) ......... There's a vast difference between your duplicitous conniving as an overstayer in Spain and Dr Chiangs legitimate application. How am I overstaying? :-S ......... We haven't left yet >:-) ....... Don't need to.....you were already overstaying prior to the ref and it was only after then, like many Brexit Brit "snowbirds", you'd realised you'd shot yourself in the foot. Since then you've gone out of your way wriggling through a variety of hoops in an attempt to circumvent the 90 day rule. At least the UK has started a system to allow useful immigrants to stay ;-) ....... Unlike the EU *-) ........ Like this lady denied residency after living and working here for 55 years? I suppose in your warped far right view, now she's approaching pension age she's no longer a "useful immigrant". God you people make me sick. https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/30/mum-lived-uk-55-years-denied-residency-10658918/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-10-04 5:31 PM 747 - 2019-10-04 5:01 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-04 1:12 PM 747 - 2019-10-04 11:51 AM Violet1956 - 2019-10-04 9:35 AM The issue is not whether we ought to have immigration controls at all but what form they should take. The absence of a points based system does not equal the absence of immigration controls. This constant reference to points-based systems by politicians perpetuates the myth that we don’t have one already and that such a system is effective in controlling migration. We have had such a system for admitting workers, investors, the self-sufficient, students etc since 2008. It was introduced by a Labour government and it has been tweaked and made more complex by successive governments. Figures from the ONS show net migration figures for non-EU citizens in 2018 reached their highest level since 2004. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/february2019 Makes you wonder whether the politicians that promote such a system in answer to public demand for reducing net migration have any idea about how to go about reducing net migration. Perhaps they haven’t bothered to learn anything about what works and what does not. Perhaps some of them know that a points-based system doesn’t reduce net migration and know how to fool the public into thinking that they are serious about it. Earlier this year the ONS were forced to admit that their immigration figures were wildly inaccurate. Unsurprisingly they had a bias which benefitted Remainers. Their figures had previously underestimated the number of EU immigrants and overestimated non EU immigration. If anyone believes that is coincidence then I feel sorry for them. Politics is a dirty business. ;-) Do we know how wildly inaccurate 747? Was much so that it could be said that there was no upward trend in non-EU migration over the last decade? I linked to the report from the ONS a while back about their miscalculation. If I have time I will try to find it. From memory they were 28% out (low) with the EU Nationals and about 20% out (high) with non EU. The original (wrong) figures made it look like we were being flooded by non EU immigrants. ie: Not flooded by the good guys, swamped by the bad guys. I am totally prepared to accept your recollection 747. I can see why the ONS have come in for criticism and a degree of suspicion since it appears that they underestimated the level EU migration at a time when that was about to become politically sensitive due to the commitment of the Conservatives to hold a referendum. My point is not concerned with the comparison between EU and non-EU migration. It is solely that this penchant for holding a “points-based” system as a means of controlling migration, be that from EU and non-EU countries, fails to take account of how such a system has proved inadequate when it comes to limiting net migration to a level acceptable to the public. https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-immigration-uk-has-been-bigger-we-thought/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Thanks for the link BG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-10-04 6:18 PM pelmetman - 2019-10-04 5:21 PM Bulletguy - 2019-10-04 12:32 PM pelmetman - 2019-10-04 8:24 AM jumpstart - 2019-10-03 7:28 PM So she cocked it up. I really sympathise but like with all bureauracy if you get the paperwork wrong......... It took me 3 attempts to get my padron in Spain ;-) .......... Unlike the Loser Brigade I didn't revert to drama queen mode *-) ......... There's a vast difference between your duplicitous conniving as an overstayer in Spain and Dr Chiangs legitimate application. How am I overstaying? :-S ......... We haven't left yet >:-) ....... Don't need to.....you were already overstaying prior to the ref and it was only after then, like many Brexit Brit "snowbirds", you'd realised you'd shot yourself in the foot. Since then you've gone out of your way wriggling through a variety of hoops in an attempt to circumvent the 90 day rule. / So I'm overstaying like EVERY OTHER EU CITIZEN who hasn't applied for residency after 90 days in their current country of residence >:-) ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ At least I've started the paperwork :D .......and have I complained? >:-) ........ NO! ............. Unlike the Loser Brigade *-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-10-04 6:19 PM https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-immigration-uk-has-been-bigger-we-thought/ Was that link supposed to help your case? (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-10-04 6:18 PM God you people make me sick. If I've been promoted to Kangaroo testicle B-) ....... I hope you choke on it >:-) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-10-04 10:02 PM So I'm overstaying like EVERY OTHER EU CITIZEN who hasn't applied for residency after 90 days in their current country of residence >:-) How many more times is this now? Why do you need everything repeating back to you like a child? Unlike Little Englanders who thought they were "special" and FoM wouldn't apply to them, EU citizens never voted to end their own FoM. They aren't that stupid. Your country of residence is stamped in your passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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