michele Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Ok Not ashamed here goes. Years ago mum and step dad had a Debenhams card . They always paid the insurance on it you never know whats in the future . Years went by and they continued to use the card and pay it always and also pay the insurance just incase. In 1998 ??? Step dada had a heart attack . We didnt claim .He couldnt work anymore but they would get pension and run off and pay it . A few years later he had two more heart attacks . I phoned Debenhams and explained that he was ill and that they would have to deal with me . I told them not to phone mum & dad as they were old and they worried about this . I asked what the problem was as they had always every month along with the regular monthly payments paid also insurance . They then said that as dad was over 65 that the insurance was not going to pay it off . I asked why they had kept on taking the money direct debit ? No reply .. Months later i thought it had gone away but unbeknown to me mum & dad had been to citizens advice and still continued to pay but at a lower rate . Now not asshamed to say they aint got it they basically live on the poverty line .Thats life . Now dad has died and my sister phoned them and explained . The Credit Card is in his name soley They said she had to write in so she did . Mum got a reply today its now owned by Santander and they will only take proof from the executor of the will . What bloody will He never left a penny If i had my way i would say see you in court what executor we aint got one , what should we do mum cant afford a solicitor and its not her debt . help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 Just had a thought ....... When I speak to them I will tell them that they need to discuss it with the deceased Mr B. As had they of phoned a week ago they woudnt of wanted to speak to me as they would of said that they could only speak with the account holder . So take the invoice and stick it where the sun dont shine :D hows that . :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Have a word with Citizens advice Re: your mum's liability Michele. sorry to hear about your Dad you don't need this hassle from credit card company at this time. Just look after your mum and the rest is unimportant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Michele Go onto www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/- click onto General Consumer Issues. You will have to register, you know, all the usual stuff, and ask your question. They are v/good usually and it's free. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 Hey thanks all of you . What it is though is how can you get an executor if you aint got a will or any estate 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Memories a bit vague on this one but we had similier with my father. Can't remember exactly which form but one of the one's that you get or apply for when registering death in effect makes next of kin executor, as above Citizens Advice (or whatever they call thenselves nowadays) will hopefully tell you, failing that Age Concern might help because of your mother. You may find that telling Santander there is no will they will tell you what you need to do, you shouldn't have to worry to much as it's a common occurance, but with all these things untill you work out how the system works it does worry you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 michele - 2009-07-13 11:06 PM Hey thanks all of you . What it is though is how can you get an executor if you aint got a will or any estate 8-) First thing, like Colin mentions, is not to worry about it. As Peter says, your Mum and the family are important first off, not the estate. Technically, you only have an executor with a will. Where a person dies without a will (intestate) then Letters of Administration are granted to a personal representative of the deceased. Sounds complicated but it isn't really. There is a list of documents etc that you will need on the Directgov web site. As others have said, Citizens Advice and Age Concern will probably be able to provide help. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Michelle really sorry for your loss – First thoughts are that you should file a complaint if your Father was having payment protection premiums taken after his 65 birthday as the provider should have realized his age as they must have had this data on file. Cannot promise anything but I would suggest that any premiums paid after age 65 should be lumped together and then subtracted from the debt. But you will need to lodge a complaint BUT – without a will, you may have to wait until the administrators have been appointed and then you will have to convince them that this is a good idea! Which it is of course but they may wish to simply wrap things up ASAP and the idea of them having to oversee a complaint that runs for several months may not attractive to them. One of the most important things to know when someone dies without leaving a Will is that someone will still need to be appointed to administer the estate of the deceased. Nothing can be done before the application for the Grant of Representation has been accepted by the Courts. An application to the Courts is required in order to obtain the Grant of Representation, which then allows the estate to be administered by the person(s) or organization that is named in the document. Intestacy rules guide When a person dies without having left a valid will, he or she is said to have died "intestate". The law sets out the rules which apply in that situation. This is a simple guide only. There may be exceptions to the general rule which are not set out. Appropriate professional advice should be taken before acting on any understanding of the law as set out in this publication. Married person with children Spouse gets everything up to *£250,000 & personal possessions. Anything remaining is divided into two:- Half to the children at 18 or earlier marriage. Half in trust during spouse's lifetime - he or she gets the income. On spouse's death this half goes to the children. If a child predeceases, leaving issue, his issue will take his share between them. Married person, no children If there are parents, brothers or sisters of the whole blood, nephew or nieces:- Spouse gets everything up to *£450,000 & personal possessions. Anything remaining is divided into two:- Half of this goes to spouse Half to parents. If no parent is living then it goes to brothers or sisters or their children. Married person, no parents, brothers or sisters of the whole blood, nephew or nieces Spouse takes whole estate. Unmarried person with children Estate goes to children at 18 or earlier marriage. Unmarried person with no children Estate goes to parents. If none, then to siblings of the whole blood or their issue. If none, then to siblings of the half blood or their issue. If none, then to grandparents. If none, then to uncles and aunts of the whole blood or their issue. If none, then to uncles and aunts of the half blood or their issue. If there are no parents, siblings (whole or half blood), issue of siblings, grandparents, uncles and aunts (whole or half blood), or issue of uncles or aunts, estate goes to the Crown (or to the Duchy of Lancaster or the Duke of Cornwall). *Note that these figures have changed over the years. If considering rules in relation to a death which has already occurred, the figure in force at the date of that death must be used. The figures shown apply for deaths on or after 1st February 2009. Generally speaking, the estate is responsible for the debts of the deceased so where there is no will the appointer administrators will usually pay it. IF YOU THINK THE DEBT HAS BEEN WRONGLY INCREASED BY THE TAKING OF PREMIUMS AFTER AGE 65 THEN YOU HAVE TO CONVINCE THE ADMINISTRATORS TO ASK FOR THOSE PREMIUMS TO BE PAID BACK TO OFFSET THE DEBT. The debts must be paid before there can be any distribution to the heirs. If the assets of the estate are not sufficient to pay those debts the estate is declared to be insolvent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 Thanks alot peep's . I am such an argumentative cow (I admit it ) . I feel like asking them before his death were they willing to discuss with me ? No I think not so why should they bother now . Citizens advice I slighly feel worried about them reason , when mum & dad went before instead of saying well you have paid insurance for as long as you have had the card they seemed to take the easy way out . Maybe thats just my reasoning . I will have a read of all the links thanks so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 No problem Michelle - hope it all works out for you. Only point I would raise is that your families troubles from an administrative point of view, would have been so much easier if a Will had been in place. There really is no good reason not to have a Will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 I guess Clive people are ignorant . They think that you only leave a will if you have money .. In their case they live in a council house have no money . Funny life 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 There are many online options that are good and a couple of £ cheaper than the WH Smith’s option my opinion is that the WH Smith product is well explained and simple to do. Something that many of our parents appreciate because that generation is not that computer literate in general. http://www.whsmith.co.uk/CatalogAndSearch/ProductDetails-The+Elite+Last+Will++Testament+Do+it+Yourself+Pack+-9780954623517.html I can remember getting so exasperated with a couple who had a real need for both to have a Will because there family situation was quite complex, but after a couple of years they still had not done it, that I bought one of these Will Documents from Smiths and gave it to them saying that I had spent £12 on one because I was appalled that they thought so little of there children and that I cared more about the well being of their children than they did. Reason for this is that if you have kids but no Will and both of you (the parents) die then it is quite likely that your children will be taken into care. Imagine the trauma of losing Mum & Dad and then being placed in a children’s home? - Sadly in the UK, Grandparents and Uncles aunts etc have little say unless a Will stipulates that they will become Guardians of your children on your death. So far better to have a Will that sets out your exact wishes AND stipulates a Guardian for your children. And for us animal lovers with pets, you should put in the Will who should take on your pets. A Will is not just about who gets any money. It is mainly about who looks after your affairs should you sadly die. That means your kids, your animals – everything. If you die without a Will, the courts decide. Does anyone want that? Or would completing a simple document that ensures that what you want will happen be a better idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 So sorry to hear of your troubles Michele. I found these people to be quite helpful but as it is quite a complex subject there is absolutely no disgrace in not understanding it as it can be very difficult to follow at times. In which case it maybe better to swallow the bitter pill of the cost and see a reputable solicitor - someone recommended maybe - who is able to explain it in terms that are understandable. Whichever way you go, and this particularly applies when your circumstances are complicated, it is far too important a thing to risk getting it wrong. http://www.tenminutewill.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 CliveH - 2009-07-14 11:44 AM (snip) A Will is not just about who gets any money. It is mainly about who looks after your affairs should you sadly die. That means your kids, your animals – everything. If you die without a Will, the courts decide. Does anyone want that? Or would completing a simple document that ensures that what you want will happen be a better idea? Absolutely! It need not be a difficult process and for many people it is quite straightforward, especially with a kit such as the one which Clive mentioned in his post. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Momma Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Michele, sorry to hear about your Dad. All the above advice is very good and I can only offer one piece of further advice which you may want to consider. Find out who your local MP is (or that in the area of your Mum would probably be more relevant) write them a letter explaining the issue. I know that a lot of people slag down local MP's but this is what they are good at. This may save you a lot of running about as, provided the local MP is worth their salt, they will find out what you need to do and often write letters to various parties on your behalf. Although not the same circumstances as yourself, I had a dispute and was very angry and at my wits end with all the beaurocracy. Somebody advised me to write to my local MP, which I did, and all correspondence then went through him. The matter got resolved very promptly ! Only something you may wish to consider to hopefully save you a lot of running around in circles. From experience, a lot of Financial Organisations give a lot of 'Huf and Puff' but at the end of the day (If the amounts involved are not in the Thousands) they usually just write the debt off. Best of luck but as previously stated, do not worry yourself in to getting ill just concentrate on yourself, your own family and of course your Mum ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROON Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Hi Michele, Obviously not able to help on the will situation but I know how these things can make you ill luv. So like everyone says - Priority is yourself and your mum (in that order - remember without you others will go under). Sending you a big hug and thinking of you. Take a deep breath with all the frustration that you must be feeling. It makes me so mad that we are all just 'another customer' for want of a better word, these days. No-one seems to care at times.... so think of your own health now. Love Joy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
602 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Hi, OT ..... but it might help someone. My mate was buying a small house. When it was time to exchange contracts, his Solicitor stopped the deal. The vendor did not have the right to sell the house. It was registered only in the name of the vendor's husband, and he had died several years ago. It took a few weeks to sort that out. 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapido-lass Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Sorry to hear about your Dad. I would go along the line that they have been 'knowingly taking payments' after his 65th birthday even though they knew it wouldn't pay out. In most peoples books that counts as fraud. They still have a duty of care towards any person who has an account with them, and they should have made your parents aware of this short fall at the time of his said birthday. They have on record his dob. It is a very frustrating situation to be in, but try not to get too stressed, write to your local MP, in fact I would also try the ombudsman too. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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