antony1969 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Barry says so but in the real world a cabinet meeting today to discuss ramping up no deal preparations ... 101 days to go and no deal looks more likely with every day ... C'mon ... ... Lordy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-12-18 9:51 AM Barry says so but in the real world a cabinet meeting today to discuss ramping up no deal preparations ... 101 days to go and no deal looks more likely with every day ... C'mon ... ... Lordy Bluff and bluster. All too late. No chance of no deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul- Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 No deal would mean we would use the WTO ruling rather than EU's is being able to trade worldwide such a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-12-18 2:57 PM antony1969 - 2018-12-18 9:51 AM Barry says so but in the real world a cabinet meeting today to discuss ramping up no deal preparations ... 101 days to go and no deal looks more likely with every day ... C'mon ... ... Lordy Bluff and bluster. All too late. No chance of no deal. We'll find out in a 101 days ;-) .......... Doesn't time fly? :D ........ It'll soon be Brexitmas B-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Paul- - 2018-12-18 3:39 PM No deal would mean we would use the WTO ruling rather than EU's is being able to trade worldwide such a bad thing? It is when your the only country in the entire world that is left trading on WTO rules only when every other nation is in some kind of single market, customs union or trading bloc. WTO rules is not a simple case of just "Dropping back" into as some Brexiteers like to think either, its much more complicated that people think and it has its own set of rules, regs and vetos and the knives are already out for the UK by all accounts from its members. If Trump gets his way there will be no WTO pretty soon anyway. Its another reason everyone wants to be in their own trading bloc and being in the worlds biggest trading bloc as we are now gives us power and influence. On our own we will just be a billy no mates grey little island off the coast of Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-12-18 4:59 PM Paul- - 2018-12-18 3:39 PM No deal would mean we would use the WTO ruling rather than EU's is being able to trade worldwide such a bad thing? It is when your the only country in the entire world that is left trading on WTO rules only when every other nation is in some kind of single market, customs union or trading bloc. WTO rules is not a simple case of just "Dropping back" into as some Brexiteers like to think either, its much more complicated that people think and it has its own set of rules, regs and vetos and the knives are already out for the UK by all accounts from its members. If Trump gets his way there will be no WTO pretty soon anyway. Its another reason everyone wants to be in their own trading bloc and being in the worlds biggest trading bloc as we are now gives us power and influence. On our own we will just be a billy no mates grey little island off the coast of Europe. Considering we're the worlds 5th biggest consumer ;-) ......... I suspect those other countries AND the EU might want to cut a deal pretty sharpish :D ........ Once we can :-| ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-18 5:43 PM Barryd999 - 2018-12-18 4:59 PM Paul- - 2018-12-18 3:39 PM No deal would mean we would use the WTO ruling rather than EU's is being able to trade worldwide such a bad thing? It is when your the only country in the entire world that is left trading on WTO rules only when every other nation is in some kind of single market, customs union or trading bloc. WTO rules is not a simple case of just "Dropping back" into as some Brexiteers like to think either, its much more complicated that people think and it has its own set of rules, regs and vetos and the knives are already out for the UK by all accounts from its members. If Trump gets his way there will be no WTO pretty soon anyway. Its another reason everyone wants to be in their own trading bloc and being in the worlds biggest trading bloc as we are now gives us power and influence. On our own we will just be a billy no mates grey little island off the coast of Europe. Considering we're the worlds 5th biggest consumer ;-) ......... I suspect those other countries AND the EU might want to cut a deal pretty sharpish :D ........ Once we can :-| ........... Actually I think we are sixth at 4%. I am sure over time they will want some kind of deal with us but none of them seem to be lining up and it will never be as good a deal as what we already have as on our own we do not have the clout. Also being a consumer only is not a great idea. If you just go around eating and drinking all day long without making any money to pay for it eventually you will run out of money. Brexit will kill off whats left of our manufacturing which isnt much to be fair and 80% of our economy is services which without single market access will go tits up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-12-18 2:57 PM antony1969 - 2018-12-18 9:51 AM Barry says so but in the real world a cabinet meeting today to discuss ramping up no deal preparations ... 101 days to go and no deal looks more likely with every day ... C'mon ... ... Lordy Bluff and bluster. All too late. No chance of no deal. So its all fake news ??? no deal is as you say "dead" ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 Wow ... Even bigger petition than them remoaner types ... ... Its guna be a no deal init ... 3 more hours and its only 100 days to go ... Oh Lordy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 If there is one things that Brits don't like it is being dictated to by Johnny Foreigner, in all his many guises, but at least this time the battles will be bloodless. The UK has always recovered from previous very expensive confronations and so we shall this time. So tighten yer seat belts boys, this is gonna be quite a ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 Tracker - 2018-12-18 7:28 PM If there is one things that Brits don't like it is being dictated to by Johnny Foreigner, in all his many guises, but at least this time the battles will be bloodless. The UK has always recovered from previous very expensive confronations and so we shall this time. So tighten yer seat belts boys, this is gonna be quite a ride! It will be a ride Rich ... To start with prolly a big(ish) dipper , bit of a rollercoaster but then once that has passed we will be on the wheel of fortune ... Yessssssssss ... No deal , No deal , No deal after 3 everyone No deal ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-12-18 2:57 Bluff and bluster. All too late. No chance of no deal. Technically, you are wrong. On 29th March we leave, into a period of negotiation. At that point we have NO DEAL! How confident are you that this government or a right wing derivative of it can or will negotiate a deal better than our current one? 2022 general election is too late in my opinion, but maybe even then, too soon for Labour to win the middle ground. Snowie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 snowie - 2018-12-18 7:55 PM 2022 general election is too late in my opinion, but maybe even then, too soon for Labour to win the middle ground. Labour will first need to occupy the middle ground with a sane leader and cronies before ever they will have a chance to win it. The only thing making unsavoury Labour seem remotely acceptable is the pigs ear that the present government are making of just about everything they touch making them unacceptable. Have you seen JC on PMQs? His voice gets higher and higher and at any minute I expect him to turn into Davros the Dalek and shout 'exterminate, exterminate' before self combusting in a puff of smoke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Tracker - 2018-12-18 8:04 PM snowie - 2018-12-18 7:55 PM 2022 general election is too late in my opinion, but maybe even then, too soon for Labour to win the middle ground. Labour will first need to occupy the middle ground with a sane leader and cronies before ever they will have a chance to win it. The only thing making unsavoury Labour seem remotely acceptable is the pigs ear that the present government are making of just about everything they touch making them unacceptable. Have you seen JC on PMQs? His voice gets higher and higher and at any minute I expect him to turn into Davros the Dalek and shout 'exterminate, exterminate' before self combusting in a puff of smoke! I agree Tracker, not sure how palatable to, is it “one nation Conservatives?” Good old fashioned Conservatives, The way Rees Mogg and Raab, and a couple of the ladies, are taking Conservatism far away from the centre ground. I wouldn’t normally comment, but I am not at all impressed by TM’s faltering presentation, sounds like she is not convinced by what she is saying. Sorry to be personal. Snowie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 snowie - 2018-12-18 9:19 PM I wouldn’t normally comment, but I am not at all impressed by TM’s faltering presentation, sounds like she is not convinced by what she is saying. Sorry to be personal. That's not personal, it's fact!! I agree with you, and I used to like and admire the lady!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 snowie - 2018-12-18 9:19 PM Tracker - 2018-12-18 8:04 PM snowie - 2018-12-18 7:55 PM 2022 general election is too late in my opinion, but maybe even then, too soon for Labour to win the middle ground. Labour will first need to occupy the middle ground with a sane leader and cronies before ever they will have a chance to win it. The only thing making unsavoury Labour seem remotely acceptable is the pigs ear that the present government are making of just about everything they touch making them unacceptable. Have you seen JC on PMQs? His voice gets higher and higher and at any minute I expect him to turn into Davros the Dalek and shout 'exterminate, exterminate' before self combusting in a puff of smoke! I agree Tracker, not sure how palatable to, is it “one nation Conservatives?” Good old fashioned Conservatives, The way Rees Mogg and Raab, and a couple of the ladies, are taking Conservatism far away from the centre ground. Snowie Actually I see them as dragging the centre back to the right ;-) .......... As its pretty obvious the liberal/left infest all our establishments *-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-19 7:50 AM Actually I see them as dragging the centre back to the right ;-) .......... As its pretty obvious the liberal/left infest all our establishments *-) .......... I feel so sad at times like these, this attraction to the right and far right makes me so grateful for a happy childhood, for an upbringing that gave me freedom, of thought and expression, and, because I was born in 48, a free education, that has served me well. What is the attraction of repressive anti- libertarian politics? Can’t see it. Snowie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 snowie - 2018-12-19 11:39 AM What is the attraction of repressive anti- libertarian politics? Can’t see it. There is no attraction beyond those gullible enough to believe it will improve their lot, plus of course the attraction of power, influence and money for those who would repress and control others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 snowie - 2018-12-18 7:55 PM Barryd999 - 2018-12-18 2:57 Bluff and bluster. All too late. No chance of no deal. Technically, you are wrong. On 29th March we leave, into a period of negotiation. At that point we have NO DEAL! How confident are you that this government or a right wing derivative of it can or will negotiate a deal better than our current one? 2022 general election is too late in my opinion, but maybe even then, too soon for Labour to win the middle ground. Snowie Dominic Grieves amendment hands control back to Parliament when TM's deal is voted down although she has kicked the can down the road yet again. Its not binding but if there is a will in Parliament to avoid no deal by either going down a different route such as Norway plus or a second ref then it will be difficult if not legally impossible for the government to ignore Parliament and why would they? Only a few headbangers in Parliament want a no deal Brexit. Even the Brexpress reported on it. https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1054300/No-Deal-Brexit-Dominic-Greive-amendment-What-does-vote-mean-for-No-Deal-Brexit https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/12/dominic-grieve-s-brexit-amendment-gives-control-back-mps-what-will-they-do-it It might be the default position but we wont get to that default. If necessary Article 50 can now be revoked unilaterally and Brexit cancelled. How could any government now with that new get out of jail free card justify allowing no deal to happen when there is no majority in favour of it either in the Public or Parliament? No deal aint happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Tracker - 2018-12-18 10:26 PM snowie - 2018-12-18 9:19 PM I wouldn’t normally comment, but I am not at all impressed by TM’s faltering presentation, sounds like she is not convinced by what she is saying. Sorry to be personal. That's not personal, it's fact!! I agree with you, and I used to like and admire the lady!! I think the real question is not whether TM is the right person for the moment, but whether any other person could, actually, do better? IMO, the present withdrawal deal is worse than remain. But, it does seem to be the best version of Brexit that could be negotiated. The Irish border issue arises because of the Good Friday Agreement and the undertaking UK gave, under that agreement, not to introduce border controls. But, whatever the Irish and the UK governments want, the border becomes an external EU border, and the EU seems extremely unlikely to accept an open external border. It won't matter a flying fig who actually introduces border controls, if the tax and immigration controls both sides of the border are different, there will be a risk of widespread (not least because there are 270 crossing points!) cross-border movements of contraband of one sort or another. There are now, with both UK and Ireland in the EU. Sooner or later, on one side or another, someone will decide the abuses have to be stopped, and the border will need to be closed. I think Brexit would make that inescapable. Given this, and that the issue is not one where compromise or fudge is possible - we are either in, or out of, the EU - I don't think there is a single individual of any party who could reconcile the obvious conflicts. TM lacks charisma and is somewhat wooden, but no amount of either could undo the Gordian knot that is inherent in Brexit. An election cannot solve the problem either, because all the other outstanding issues surrounding education, health, infrastructure, prison reform, etc. etc. will be mixed in, so that we should emerge with whatever government and no clear view as to what anyone really wanted (as usual!) on any single issue, Brexit included, still leaving Brexit unresolved. I did not, and do not, like referendums - unless they are advisory only, and have a minimum majority to be met before the government is required to investigate the underlying causes driving the vote, and then charged with eliminating those causes as far as is possible. Notwithstanding, on this issue, where the political system has collapsed, and we are seeing only deadlock and impotence, and where our present circumstances are the result of a (albeit extremely poorly judged and managed) referendum, I can see no better way out of the impasse than to hold a further referendum, on a well judged, and sound, footing. For me, that would involve three options: the present withdrawal deal, remain, or leave with no deal. Votes in order of preference, with the lowest being eliminated, and the second preferences then being added to first preferences to arrive at a final result. That, at least, should give a convincing majority - and may the best man win! :-) Then, hold the election, and the winner gets to carry out the result. Oh joy! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-12-18 7:21 PM Wow ... Even bigger petition than them remoaner types ... ... Its guna be a no deal init ... 3 more hours and its only 100 days to go ... Oh Lordy Hmm. "petition now at over 217,000 - beating the biggest Remainer petition by over 15,000." Didnt the second referendum petition reach four and a half million sigs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-12-19 12:01 PM I think the real question is not whether TM is the right person for the moment, but whether any other person could, actually, do better? I think the reality has sunk in :D ........ Corbyn doesn't actually want to take back control (lol) ........ Not that he could *-) ......... So with a bit of luck our Lords & Masters in Westminster will engineer a No Deal where No one and everyone will take the blame >:-) ........ Suits me ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 12:12 PM antony1969 - 2018-12-18 7:21 PM Wow ... Even bigger petition than them remoaner types ... ... Its guna be a no deal init ... 3 more hours and its only 100 days to go ... Oh Lordy Hmm. "petition now at over 217,000 - beating the biggest Remainer petition by over 15,000." Didnt the second referendum petition reach four and a half million sigs? Rallying the troops means bog all if you're still out numbered 52% to 48% :D .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-19 4:17 PM Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 12:12 PM antony1969 - 2018-12-18 7:21 PM Wow ... Even bigger petition than them remoaner types ... ... Its guna be a no deal init ... 3 more hours and its only 100 days to go ... Oh Lordy Hmm. "petition now at over 217,000 - beating the biggest Remainer petition by over 15,000." Didnt the second referendum petition reach four and a half million sigs? Rallying the troops means bog all if you're still out numbered 52% to 48% :D .......... I wonder if anyone has traced the IP addresses and subnet masks of all those who voted in your Kamikaze no deal petition. I bet most of the signatories are flipping Bots in St Petersburg. I bet Putin is delighted with your work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 4:49 PM I wonder if anyone has traced the IP addresses and subnet masks of all those who voted in your Kamikaze no deal petition. I bet most of the signatories are flipping Bots in St Petersburg. I bet Putin is delighted with your work. There you go again Barry, opinion not facts. What basis is there to assume the Remoaners are any less biased and manipulative than the Brexiteers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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