Parliamentary Change?

[RoyH]

Here's what Oliver Cromwell said to The House of Commons 356 years ago.

 

Seems like not much has changed.

 

Dissolution of the Long Parliament by Oliver Cromwell given to the House of Commons 20 April 1653

 

"It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.

 

Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter'd your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?

 

Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil'd this sacred place, and turn'd the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress'd, are yourselves gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors.

In the name of God, go!"

 

Would that we had someone to say similar today.

[nightrider]

All our local MP's have had their sticky mitts in the honey pot and all the local voters are up in arms about it, so how will they vote the next time?

[GJH]

knight of the road - 2009-05-19 11:35 PM

 

All our local MP's have had their sticky mitts in the honey pot and all the local voters are up in arms about it, so how will they vote the next time?

It would be nice to think that this sorry episode would make people think more deeply about who they want to represent them and ask questions of the various candidates before making an informed choice.

 

Unfortunately it may well be that turnout is reduced because some people now consider all candidates as bad as each other.

 

Of those who do vote, most of them will probably vote for whatever candidate is put up by the party they usually flock to without thinking.

 

Sad isn't it.

 

Graham

[nightrider]

It really maddens me to think of some of the things that MP's have spent their expenses money on.

Garden sheds, luxury TV's etc, those found guilty of missappropriation of expenses should be made to pay it back with interest.

I could accept them buying things in order to furnish a constituencey office in order to carry out their job but not for their own indulgence.

[GJH]

knight of the road - 2009-05-20 9:10 AM

 

It really maddens me to think of some of the things that MP's have spent their expenses money on.

Garden sheds, luxury TV's etc, those found guilty of missappropriation of expenses should be made to pay it back with interest.

I could accept them buying things in order to furnish a constituencey office in order to carry out their job but not for their own indulgence.

It annoys me when anyone - not just MPs - takes anything that they are not entitled to at the expense of others because, in the long run, it is all of us who suffer.

 

Having said that, MPs are something of a special case because, as a group of people who are supposed to set an example, their moral standards should be of the highest.

 

Graham

[breakaleg]

Made me smile yesterday, David Cameron suggested on radio 4, the only way forward was a general election.

 

suggesting that labour needed replacing because of the corruption.

 

never mentioned that the conservatives were as bad, might just as leave them in power for the good it would do.

Pete

[Tony Jones]

The advantage of a General Election right now, would be that the whole thing is still fresh in people's minds. At this point, most people would want to vote out their local MP, no mattter how popular previously, if he/she is among those who've been exposed as fraudsters (by OUR definition, not their own rules!).

So we'd end up with lots of MPs who've been elected because they're seen as "clean," rather than because of the party they belong to, and who aren't at all familiar with the long traditions of this "honourable house." Also, they'd have been elected for their own perceived character as individuals, and so would (hopefully) be less likely just to vote along party lines on everything. It would be a real chance for a fresh start.

 

The alternative is to have everyone letting off steam by voting out their Euro-MPs and County Councillors (who may be just as bad but aren't repsonsible for THIS mess), and then (the British public having such short memories) to revert to normal party-line voting come the General Election in a year or so. Business as usual, with a few minor tweaks to the system.

 

I know which I'd like to see!

 

But Roy, although I'm an admirer of Cromwell, in the movie he ended up saying "I will see this nation properly governed - if I have to do it myself!" I wouldn't like to hear anyone in public life at present saying anything like that!

[malc d]

I would prefer that people vote for policies at general elections and not just 'nice' people.

 

I think the call for a general election is a red herring.

 

:-(

[Corky 8]

I dont know what your all worring about, Gordon Brown (spit ) said THEY are going to change the rules and THEY will make up some better rules so THEY will know what THEY can claim for. THEY seem to know what THEY are doing yet again ,and this is a democracy working "Hump" , I,m not going to be swayed by Good Looks this time, think Ill vote for someone who can Speak French and wears a beret, be a nice change and when he speaks it wont matter if he is lying coz I wont understand anyway.

[malc d]

THEY are actually saying that the rules will be made up and monitored by an "independent body"

 

My concern is that that 'body' will be a collection of old school chums from around the Westminster village.

 

Their expenses should be monitored by an independent body that is as far removed from London as possible.

How about Liverpool or Newcastle ?

 

 

 

 

:-(

[Basil]

malc d - 2009-05-20 3:39 PM

 

Their expenses should be monitored by an independent body that is as far removed from London as possible.

How about Liverpool or Newcastle ?

:-(

 

And just what good would that do, there are plenty of Northern MP's with their noses in the trough!

 

Bas

[nightrider]

Talking about Oliver Cromwell, over my garden fence there is a ridge known as Sailor brows which overlooks the town of Radcliffe.

My garden is where Cromwell placed his big guns to bombard the original town of Radcliffe leaving only the tithe barn and St Marys church standing. Not many people know that?

[malc d]

Basil - 2009-05-20 4:26 PM

 

malc d - 2009-05-20 3:39 PM

 

Their expenses should be monitored by an independent body that is as far removed from London as possible.

How about Liverpool or Newcastle ?

:-(

 

And just what good would that do, there are plenty of Northern MP's with their noses in the trough!

 

Bas

 

 

O.K. Point taken.

Maybe a bit further then.

 

How about the Falkland Islands ?

 

 

:-(

[nightrider]

So for making a 'cock up' Gorbals Mick get a peerage and £1. 4m pension pot, it seems to me that if you make a cobblers of your job you get rewarded for it, in my working career if you fouled things up you got the sack.

[CliveH]

I think it is sickening to see all three main parties now rushing to "put things right.

 

I just hope that by the time an election does appear that the majority has not forgotten this staggering betrayal of our trust.

 

If the likes of Ester Rantzen are standing as an independent - she would get my vote - because as I have said before - I am never going to vote for the slimy trio of mainstream parties again.

[howie]

Voting for a 'Independent' will be my prefered choice come the the next general election, if only as a protest vote. Plenty to choose from, but will it make a difference or will it be a wasted vote.

Reform and change of attiutude must come from within the main parties and if enough Independents get elected it will at least show those now in power just how strongly public opinion is against them at the moment.

[nightrider]

All this heavy duty political stuff is getting rather depressing, anyone got any good jokes? jokes about the legal and medical profession, forget the politicians they are jokes as it is.

[malc d]

knight of the road - 2009-05-20 7:29 PM

 

All this heavy duty political stuff is getting rather depressing, anyone got any good jokes? jokes about the legal and medical profession, forget the politicians they are jokes as it is.

 

 

As they say: "Don't let the bar stewards grind you down" Malc.

 

Here's a lightweight political comment - I'm told this was on Radio 2 this morning.

 

Sign in a shop window:

 

" No more than two MPs allowed in this shop at one time"

 

 

;-)

[nightrider]

malc d - 2009-05-20 7:57 PM

 

knight of the road - 2009-05-20 7:29 PM

 

All this heavy duty political stuff is getting rather depressing, anyone got any good jokes? jokes about the legal and medical profession, forget the politicians they are jokes as it is.

 

 

As they say: "Don't let the bar stewards grind you down" Malc.

 

Here's a lightweight political comment - I'm told this was on Radio 2 this morning.

 

Sign in a shop window:

 

" No more than two MPs allowed in this shop at one time"

 

 

;-)

ha ha

[Syd]

How about letting the BNP check the main parties expences claims and the main parties check the BNP expences claims

 

Would that work?

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

The advantage of the threat of a general election is that it will concentrate their minds.

 

I voted against a Welsh Assembly. Why? Because if I make a complaint about a service or decision, I don't want my complaint dealt with by somebody who had dinner last night, with the person who was the cause of my complaint. Is that what they call cronyism? The further they are apart, the better.

 

602

[CliveH]

 

Interesting point - as an Englishman I do not see that as an issue with the Welsh or Scottish assemblies.

 

After all are they really that "small"? A good independent assessor of expenses is what is needed wherever located in my view.

 

But moving on to another issue but one linked to fairness etc, as someone in England who pays the same tax and NIC as anyone in the UK, is it fair that we in England have to pay for our prescriptions and also pay extortionate amounts to park in our NHS hospitals whereas the Welsh and Scottish either do not already or the payments are being phased out.

 

I am all for the assemblies and supported the idea of an English one but not as that numpty Prescott advocated - that was just a waste of money.

 

No we could have sessions at Westminster where only English MP's could vote, a simple procedural matter not the eye watering costly empire building nonsense that Prescott advocated.

 

I think devolution is the right way forward. But it seems to me that devolution has been handed to Wales and Scotland in the way that they have as a sop for votes in the UK Parliament. And look what is likely to happen! - I doubt that any UK individual is likely to want to vote for either of the main three parties and so National parties will benefit and fair play to them. It seems to me that national parties have taken the task of looking after their constituents far more seriously than some!

 

 

[mom]

I'll be in Loseley Park, this weekend, killing Parliamentarians.  Will that help, perhaps?!  (If you don't believe me, check this out!... http://tinyurl.com/ppx6bl)

 

On a contentious note, which is bound to annoy a few (sorry), in Australia we have compulsory voting.  If you fail to vote, you are fined.  I've heard many arguments here in this country against the idea, when I have raised this amongst friends, but just think about it for a moment...

 

If you are a political party, and you "know" that almost 100% "have to" vote (that's 10s of millions more people than usual) you can't rely on complacency and disinterest to avoid certain topics and policies.  What tends to happen, when those who don't really want to vote, those who are disillusioned and sick of it all, actually turn up at the polling station, is they then pick and reject parties that are either already in power (this is the killer, and hence parties in power have to up their game to prevent this), or that they have seen or heard from friends and media, or whose pamphlet they have in their hands, or who have the word "green" or "eco" in them.  These voters spell catastrophe to big parties, especially those already in power.  Imagine, almost double the voters turn up... enough to overthrow the Government, twice over!

 

When you have compulsory voting, political parties can't ignore anyone.  They have to have broadsweeping, marketable policies, because they have to appeal to as many as possible, to every area of public interest.  Lest those bored, disgruntled, don't-really-want-to voters tick the other boxes.  People who don't vote let the parties off the hook, they let them choose policies and behave in a fashion that panders only to the pundit profile of actual voters.

 

When I discuss politics to friends in Australia, "everyone" has a determination to use their vote.  Over here, lots of my friends won't vote because "they're all as bad as each other".  I'm afraid my friends will continue to get exactly what they don't vote for!  Seriously!  The quality of politician, in my opinion, is directly related to the interest and responsibility the public takes in politics.  Not bothered?  Then neither will the politicians be!

 

One last comment, before running away really fast!, I have heard the comment several times, "Democracy also says that I have the right to refuse to vote".  My belief is that democracy should give you all the rights in the world "except" the one to refuse to vote.  All you need is a convincing extremest party, in a disinterested, bored, sleepy, non-voting democracy, and all our rights, including the right to vote, may be taken away!  If 100% got out there and voted, as they say in Australia, "we'd keep the bast**ds honest"!

 

The road to a better politician is in the hands of the voting public, imho!

 

 

 

 

[GJH]

CliveH - 2009-05-21 7:55 AM

 

(snip)

But moving on to another issue but one linked to fairness etc, as someone in England who pays the same tax and NIC as anyone in the UK, is it fair that we in England have to pay for our prescriptions and also pay extortionate amounts to park in our NHS hospitals whereas the Welsh and Scottish either do not already or the payments are being phased out.

 

(snip)

I think the issue is not how a given budget is spent (for instance I recall reading that free prescriptions in Scotland were part funded by longer waiting lists for certain other treatments) but the size of the budget in the first place.

 

The Barnett Formula may well have been appropriate for the situation which existed 30 years ago when top level spending in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland was decided at Westminster but it was only ever designed as a temporary measure.

 

In addition to devolution, relative levels of prosperity between England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have altered significantly in the last 30 years and that is where inequalities between funding and spending arise.

 

Graham

[CliveH]

 

Really good points Mom. Why is it that other countries often seem to do it better than we do? And yet we have the Mother of Parliaments?

 

I have long felt that voting should be compulsory. I have little time for people that do not vote. People died top ensure we had that right rather than dictatorships of either the Left or the Right.

 

Appalling that some chose not to partake of a hard fought for right.

 

Graham

 

Forgive me but I am not interested in how the money is spent or allocated. This is a bit of a red herring as money should always go where it is needed. What I object to is the two tier charging system that we now have. It is the basic premise that we all pay the same tax and NIC but are discriminated against by a Government agency that was set up in 1948 on the premise that Health treatment should be free at the point of delivery.

 

Well now it isn't. There are costs to us in England that is not charged to those in Wales or Scotland. Like I say, it seems that the devolved assemblies look after their constituents better.

 

Fair play to Wales and Scotland - If I were living in either I would be voting for the national parties as long as they can show their representatives have not had their snouts in the trough, if not then an independent candidate would be my choice.