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Powerful speech
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userBulletguy
Posted: 12 January 2019 8:26 PM
Subject: Powerful speech
 


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XEj64IFzQ8
userBarryd999
Posted: 12 January 2019 9:12 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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He is a good speaker, pity there is no fecker there to listen to him.
userpelmetman
Posted: 13 January 2019 8:38 AM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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How crass are you Remoaners ...........

To try to link the death of a criminal to the fight for democracy ......

userStuartO
Posted: 13 January 2019 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 
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It was indeed a powerful and clearly heart-felt speech - but flawed in it's logic.

"Socialism in one country doesn't work", he said. But it doesn't follow, as he was trying to claim as a consequence, because he believes in the socialist dream, that socialism works in 28 countries either. The EU is fairly clearly in the process of going pear shaped and Brexit probably offers the UK an opportunity to leave the sinking ship.

Theresa May's Deal may not be ideal, indeed it may not even be very good, I don't know enough to judge that, but there seems to be a consensus that Theresa's Deal is far better than No Deal, if we are still determined that the UK should leave the EU.

Unfortunately the Labour Opposition are not offering a constructive alternative to Theresa May's Deal at all, they are merely taking the opportunity of the prevailing political chaos to ask for another opportunity for their uncertain and conflicting versions of the socialist dream. Jeremy Corbyn clearly wants Brexit too, regardless of the widespread wish to remain among Labour supporters - but he wants an opportunity to govern much more so he will sacrifice Brexit to get it.

Edited by StuartO 2019-01-13 9:13 AM
userantony1969
Posted: 13 January 2019 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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Much more powerful speech here ... https://brexitcentral.com/leaving-eu-wto-terms-will-make-businesses-competitive-innovative/ ... "The IMF estimate that 90% of global growth in the next 10-15years is likely to come from outside the EU" ... The world is our oyster
userBarryd999
Posted: 13 January 2019 12:54 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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antony1969 - 2019-01-13 11:56 AM

Much more powerful speech here ... https://brexitcentral.com/leaving-eu-wto-terms-will-make-businesses-competitive-innovative/ ... "The IMF estimate that 90% of global growth in the next 10-15years is likely to come from outside the EU" ... The world is our oyster


Brexit Central! Oh Pleeeeeze!

If being alone on WTO rules and the only country in the entire world that will be trading on WTO only is so brilliant then why is the rest of the world setting up single market trading blocs which are growing all the time with the EU Single market being the biggest and the envy of the world?

Come on Antony. Even most Brexiteers have given up on this trade deal nonsense and any hope of us being better off post Brexit unless your Tim not so nice but Dim Martin.
userpelmetman
Posted: 13 January 2019 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-13 12:54 PM

If being alone on WTO rules and the only country in the entire world that will be trading on WTO only is so brilliant then why is the rest of the world setting up single market trading blocs which are growing all the time with the EU Single market being the biggest and the envy of the world?


The difference being they're setting them up to be mutually beneficial to the two countries involved.........where as the EU sets them up to be mutually beneficial to the EU ..........

Besides if the EU was so wonderful why are so many EU citizens jumping on the populists band wagon? .......

userBarryd999
Posted: 13 January 2019 2:34 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-13 1:14 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-13 12:54 PM

If being alone on WTO rules and the only country in the entire world that will be trading on WTO only is so brilliant then why is the rest of the world setting up single market trading blocs which are growing all the time with the EU Single market being the biggest and the envy of the world?


The difference being they're setting them up to be mutually beneficial to the two countries involved.........where as the EU sets them up to be mutually beneficial to the EU ..........

Besides if the EU was so wonderful why are so many EU citizens jumping on the populists band wagon? .......



Well it would make sense for the EU to set up its trading bloc to be beneficial to its members Dave wouldnt it? Or did you actually mean beneficial to this mythical being that you seem to have in your head? A big blue and gold Monster? The EU is us, France, Germany etc.

As for the populist band wagon its got more to do with far right nut jobs jumping on stuff like the Migrant crisis rather than membership of the EU. Its happened time and time again throughout history and it never ends well.
userantony1969
Posted: 13 January 2019 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-13 2:34 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-13 1:14 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-13 12:54 PM

If being alone on WTO rules and the only country in the entire world that will be trading on WTO only is so brilliant then why is the rest of the world setting up single market trading blocs which are growing all the time with the EU Single market being the biggest and the envy of the world?


The difference being they're setting them up to be mutually beneficial to the two countries involved.........where as the EU sets them up to be mutually beneficial to the EU ..........

Besides if the EU was so wonderful why are so many EU citizens jumping on the populists band wagon? .......



Well it would make sense for the EU to set up its trading bloc to be beneficial to its members Dave wouldnt it? Or did you actually mean beneficial to this mythical being that you seem to have in your head? A big blue and gold Monster? The EU is us, France, Germany etc.

As for the populist band wagon its got more to do with far right nut jobs jumping on stuff like the Migrant crisis rather than membership of the EU. Its happened time and time again throughout history and it never ends well.


You keep dreaming Barry ... If populism is rising because of "stuff like the migrant crisis" rather than EU membership as you claim why is populism rising in countries with hardly any of those migrant types in em like Poland , Czech Republic , Hungary etc etc ... Nice to see that rag EU flag getting burnt and stamped on in riot torn France yesterday by the way ... Populism is rising because of numerous reasons and like it or not the EU is one of those reasons
userpelmetman
Posted: 13 January 2019 4:52 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-13 2:34 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-13 1:14 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-13 12:54 PM

If being alone on WTO rules and the only country in the entire world that will be trading on WTO only is so brilliant then why is the rest of the world setting up single market trading blocs which are growing all the time with the EU Single market being the biggest and the envy of the world?


The difference being they're setting them up to be mutually beneficial to the two countries involved.........where as the EU sets them up to be mutually beneficial to the EU ..........

Besides if the EU was so wonderful why are so many EU citizens jumping on the populists band wagon? .......



Well it would make sense for the EU to set up its trading bloc to be beneficial to its members Dave wouldnt it? .


Like I said the EU is beneficial to its self ..........

It's more than evident "our" job is to supply the dosh and be a receptacle for their dross .........



userpelmetman
Posted: 13 January 2019 4:56 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-13 2:34 PM

As for the populist band wagon its got more to do with far right nut jobs jumping on stuff like the Migrant crisis rather than membership of the EU. Its happened time and time again throughout history and it never ends well.


Yep.....that's me .......a far right nut job ..........

There's a lot of us about nowadays ........

Looks to me like there's an empire on the wain because of us ...........

userBarryd999
Posted: 13 January 2019 5:21 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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antony1969 - 2019-01-13 3:09 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-13 2:34 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-13 1:14 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-13 12:54 PM

If being alone on WTO rules and the only country in the entire world that will be trading on WTO only is so brilliant then why is the rest of the world setting up single market trading blocs which are growing all the time with the EU Single market being the biggest and the envy of the world?


The difference being they're setting them up to be mutually beneficial to the two countries involved.........where as the EU sets them up to be mutually beneficial to the EU ..........

Besides if the EU was so wonderful why are so many EU citizens jumping on the populists band wagon? .......



Well it would make sense for the EU to set up its trading bloc to be beneficial to its members Dave wouldnt it? Or did you actually mean beneficial to this mythical being that you seem to have in your head? A big blue and gold Monster? The EU is us, France, Germany etc.

As for the populist band wagon its got more to do with far right nut jobs jumping on stuff like the Migrant crisis rather than membership of the EU. Its happened time and time again throughout history and it never ends well.


You keep dreaming Barry ... If populism is rising because of "stuff like the migrant crisis" rather than EU membership as you claim why is populism rising in countries with hardly any of those migrant types in em like Poland , Czech Republic , Hungary etc etc ... Nice to see that rag EU flag getting burnt and stamped on in riot torn France yesterday by the way ... Populism is rising because of numerous reasons and like it or not the EU is one of those reasons


Because thats how it starts, countries like Germany etc that opened the flood gates sparked it off and it spreads. The far right extremists have just used it as a spring board. Burning and stomping on EU Flags in western Europe like we are in some kind of dictatorship in "Bongo Bongo land" FFS! Yeah because life has been made so intolerable for European citizens because of the EU. Even you mate in Italy has said he has no intention of leaving the EU.

userpelmetman
Posted: 13 January 2019 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-13 5:21 PM
Even you mate in Italy has said he has no intention of leaving the EU.



Yeah......he's young......he thinks he can change the EU ...........

userantony1969
Posted: 13 January 2019 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-13 5:21 PM

antony1969 - 2019-01-13 3:09 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-13 2:34 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-13 1:14 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-13 12:54 PM

If being alone on WTO rules and the only country in the entire world that will be trading on WTO only is so brilliant then why is the rest of the world setting up single market trading blocs which are growing all the time with the EU Single market being the biggest and the envy of the world?


The difference being they're setting them up to be mutually beneficial to the two countries involved.........where as the EU sets them up to be mutually beneficial to the EU ..........

Besides if the EU was so wonderful why are so many EU citizens jumping on the populists band wagon? .......



Well it would make sense for the EU to set up its trading bloc to be beneficial to its members Dave wouldnt it? Or did you actually mean beneficial to this mythical being that you seem to have in your head? A big blue and gold Monster? The EU is us, France, Germany etc.

As for the populist band wagon its got more to do with far right nut jobs jumping on stuff like the Migrant crisis rather than membership of the EU. Its happened time and time again throughout history and it never ends well.


You keep dreaming Barry ... If populism is rising because of "stuff like the migrant crisis" rather than EU membership as you claim why is populism rising in countries with hardly any of those migrant types in em like Poland , Czech Republic , Hungary etc etc ... Nice to see that rag EU flag getting burnt and stamped on in riot torn France yesterday by the way ... Populism is rising because of numerous reasons and like it or not the EU is one of those reasons


Because thats how it starts, countries like Germany etc that opened the flood gates sparked it off and it spreads. The far right extremists have just used it as a spring board. Burning and stomping on EU Flags in western Europe like we are in some kind of dictatorship in "Bongo Bongo land" FFS! Yeah because life has been made so intolerable for European citizens because of the EU. Even you mate in Italy has said he has no intention of leaving the EU.



Princess I think you really need to read up on Mr Salvini and his views on the EU ... The EU would no way reform to the liking of Salvini ... https://www.euronews.com/2019/01/09/italy-s-salvini-goes-to-poland-for-discussions-on-eurosceptic-alliance "overhaul the EU institutions from within" is what he would like but like PM Camerons last desperate attempt showed they will not ... Bye bye the EU
userBulletguy
Posted: 13 January 2019 5:52 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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StuartO - 2019-01-13 9:10 AM

It was indeed a powerful and clearly heart-felt speech - but flawed in it's logic.

"Socialism in one country doesn't work", he said. But it doesn't follow, as he was trying to claim as a consequence, because he believes in the socialist dream, that socialism works in 28 countries either. The EU is fairly clearly in the process of going pear shaped and Brexit probably offers the UK an opportunity to leave the sinking ship.

Theresa May's Deal may not be ideal, indeed it may not even be very good, I don't know enough to judge that, but there seems to be a consensus that Theresa's Deal is far better than No Deal, if we are still determined that the UK should leave the EU.

Unfortunately the Labour Opposition are not offering a constructive alternative to Theresa May's Deal at all, they are merely taking the opportunity of the prevailing political chaos to ask for another opportunity for their uncertain and conflicting versions of the socialist dream. Jeremy Corbyn clearly wants Brexit too, regardless of the widespread wish to remain among Labour supporters - but he wants an opportunity to govern much more so he will sacrifice Brexit to get it.

Apart from his slip on Churchill i'd say he'd got everything else spot on. His comment that "socialism confined to one country will not work" is right and if you followed the rest of his speech he went on to say, " the world we live in is global and we can only fix the rigged system if we cooperate across border-lines". I don't see anything to indicate the EU going 'pear shaped' at all, in fact the absolute opposite as their economy has grown whilst ours continues to plummet into the abyss. May of course boldly announced at the Tory conference, "austerity is at an end". Haven't seen any evidence of that...have you? Once again, the total opposite. $800 billion worth of banking, previously based in London has now shipped out of UK over to Frankfurt due to Brexit. The automotive industry announced moves to EU in order to continue frictionless movement necessary to maintain production.

Along with this goes thousands of job losses yet for some peculiar reason, Brexiters are still hell bent on wreaking further damage. Imagine for a moment Stuart you are one of those car workers whose been told this week your job is on the line. Your wife who works in banking is also among those to lose her job. You have three children you had hoped to be able to see through university and a hefty mortgage to pay. Both cars are also on finance so those are the first to go and your house will quickly need to follow. Neither of you have had any alternative job offers......where are you going to go? These are the harsh realities which some people will now find themselves facing some of whom may even have voted Brexit themselves......but now regretting and realising how they've been misled.

I agree Corbyn has always been a closet Brexiteer but moreover (imo) lacks the leadership qualities which Lammy displays. Corbyn is a knowledgeable politician but that alone isn't enough to make a good leader. He lacks assertiveness (i think by nature) and misses many occasions to go on the attack with May. Lammy is the type who would and he's made very powerful speeches before which rattled more than a few on the opposition.
userantony1969
Posted: 13 January 2019 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-01-13 5:52 PM

StuartO - 2019-01-13 9:10 AM

It was indeed a powerful and clearly heart-felt speech - but flawed in it's logic.

"Socialism in one country doesn't work", he said. But it doesn't follow, as he was trying to claim as a consequence, because he believes in the socialist dream, that socialism works in 28 countries either. The EU is fairly clearly in the process of going pear shaped and Brexit probably offers the UK an opportunity to leave the sinking ship.

Theresa May's Deal may not be ideal, indeed it may not even be very good, I don't know enough to judge that, but there seems to be a consensus that Theresa's Deal is far better than No Deal, if we are still determined that the UK should leave the EU.

Unfortunately the Labour Opposition are not offering a constructive alternative to Theresa May's Deal at all, they are merely taking the opportunity of the prevailing political chaos to ask for another opportunity for their uncertain and conflicting versions of the socialist dream. Jeremy Corbyn clearly wants Brexit too, regardless of the widespread wish to remain among Labour supporters - but he wants an opportunity to govern much more so he will sacrifice Brexit to get it.

Apart from his slip on Churchill i'd say he'd got everything else spot on. His comment that "socialism confined to one country will not work" is right and if you followed the rest of his speech he went on to say, " the world we live in is global and we can only fix the rigged system if we cooperate across border-lines". I don't see anything to indicate the EU going 'pear shaped' at all, in fact the absolute opposite as their economy has grown whilst ours continues to plummet into the abyss. May of course boldly announced at the Tory conference, "austerity is at an end". Haven't seen any evidence of that...have you? Once again, the total opposite. $800 billion worth of banking, previously based in London has now shipped out of UK over to Frankfurt due to Brexit. The automotive industry announced moves to EU in order to continue frictionless movement necessary to maintain production.

Along with this goes thousands of job losses yet for some peculiar reason, Brexiters are still hell bent on wreaking further damage. Imagine for a moment Stuart you are one of those car workers whose been told this week your job is on the line. Your wife who works in banking is also among those to lose her job. You have three children you had hoped to be able to see through university and a hefty mortgage to pay. Both cars are also on finance so those are the first to go and your house will quickly need to follow. Neither of you have had any alternative job offers......where are you going to go? These are the harsh realities which some people will now find themselves facing some of whom may even have voted Brexit themselves......but now regretting and realising how they've been misled.

I agree Corbyn has always been a closet Brexiteer but moreover (imo) lacks the leadership qualities which Lammy displays. Corbyn is a knowledgeable politician but that alone isn't enough to make a good leader. He lacks assertiveness (i think by nature) and misses many occasions to go on the attack with May. Lammy is the type who would and he's made very powerful speeches before which rattled more than a few on the opposition.


Everyone ... Corbyn apparently "lacks the leadership qualities which LAMMY displays" ... Ive just p!$$ed myself ... The old tools gone total Stan and Ollie ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwhxc3OCBjc
userantony1969
Posted: 15 January 2019 7:53 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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The man who could be Liebour leader according to Ollie ... https://twitter.com/Khyberman/status/1084851600705945601
userBulletguy
Posted: 15 January 2019 8:21 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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Family Income Support was the same. It's mere pedantry over 'in-work' tax credit payments.
userantony1969
Posted: 15 January 2019 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-01-15 8:21 PM


Family Income Support was the same. It's mere pedantry over 'in-work' tax credit payments.


Lordy ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQqC6_6Wf0M
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 15 January 2019 9:07 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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antony1969 - 2019-01-13 11:56 AM

Much more powerful speech here ... https://brexitcentral.com/leaving-eu-wto-terms-will-make-businesses-competitive-innovative/ ... "The IMF estimate that 90% of global growth in the next 10-15years is likely to come from outside the EU" ... The world is our oyster

But, that is a rather misleading statistic. 90% of global growth is, of course, a forecast. How could you Antony? I mean, a forecast!

But, seriously, what is it based on? Emerging markets will always tend to grow faster than mature markets, they start from lower, so they rise faster.

That doesn't make it sensible to reject a large, wealthy, mature market on one's doorstep, merely to cultivate ties with the emerging markets - which will, by their nature, be more volatile than the mature markets. Better by far to remain close to the mature market, even more so if one trades with the mature market tariff free. The mature market provides the bread and butter, and the emerging markets can then provide the cherries on the cake as and where they generate growth.

Nothing presently stops the UK from doing this. There is no legal restraint on it. Germany does it far more successfully from within the EU than the UK, by a factor of, if I remember, about 10. Why?

We do not need trade deals to trade, as some seem to think. The EU does not prevent external trade, only the conclusion of trade deals by one EU member that could place other EU states at an unfair disadvantage within the single market.

Our problem, which has been the case since well before we joined the EU, is that we import much more than we export, and we have low productivity. We were, and we remain, a high cost - low wage economy with poor productivity. If we fixed the productivity problem, mainly attributable to low investment levels, we could begin to reverse that long established trend.

Instead of investing, our industrialists have traditionally sought to import labour as a cheap fix. When they no longer need the labour, they are laid off - which means handed over to the state to pay for. It used to be called "hire and fire", and underlies much of the labour relations problems that gave rise to belligerent unionisation.

But, once here, those migrants tend to stay, swelling our population and increasing demands on housing, the NHS, education, infrastructure etc. etc. Since the 2008 crash our governments have not increased spending on these functions to match the increase in population, so housing has become expensive and services and infrastructure have deteriorated. They have, instead, used the additional tax take from the migrants to try to pay down the cost of bailing out the banks in preference to increasing taxation for the same end.

In short, our problem is, as ever, economic short termism. People prefer to suspend their intelligence and vote for whatever manifesto they think will be cheapest for them tomorrow, and then moan when cheapest doesn't turn out to be best. But, these are the same people whose short sighted wishes we must all bow to in the name of democracy. Phooey!
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 January 2019 10:42 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-15 9:07 PM

antony1969 - 2019-01-13 11:56 AM

Much more powerful speech here ... https://brexitcentral.com/leaving-eu-wto-terms-will-make-businesses-competitive-innovative/ ... "The IMF estimate that 90% of global growth in the next 10-15years is likely to come from outside the EU" ... The world is our oyster

But, that is a rather misleading statistic. 90% of global growth is, of course, a forecast. How could you Antony? I mean, a forecast!

But, seriously, what is it based on? Emerging markets will always tend to grow faster than mature markets, they start from lower, so they rise faster.

That doesn't make it sensible to reject a large, wealthy, mature market on one's doorstep, merely to cultivate ties with the emerging markets - which will, by their nature, be more volatile than the mature markets. Better by far to remain close to the mature market, even more so if one trades with the mature market tariff free. The mature market provides the bread and butter, and the emerging markets can then provide the cherries on the cake as and where they generate growth.

Nothing presently stops the UK from doing this. There is no legal restraint on it. Germany does it far more successfully from within the EU than the UK, by a factor of, if I remember, about 10. Why?

We do not need trade deals to trade, as some seem to think. The EU does not prevent external trade, only the conclusion of trade deals by one EU member that could place other EU states at an unfair disadvantage within the single market.

Our problem, which has been the case since well before we joined the EU, is that we import much more than we export, and we have low productivity. We were, and we remain, a high cost - low wage economy with poor productivity. If we fixed the productivity problem, mainly attributable to low investment levels, we could begin to reverse that long established trend.

Instead of investing, our industrialists have traditionally sought to import labour as a cheap fix. When they no longer need the labour, they are laid off - which means handed over to the state to pay for. It used to be called "hire and fire", and underlies much of the labour relations problems that gave rise to belligerent unionisation.

But, once here, those migrants tend to stay, swelling our population and increasing demands on housing, the NHS, education, infrastructure etc. etc. Since the 2008 crash our governments have not increased spending on these functions to match the increase in population, so housing has become expensive and services and infrastructure have deteriorated. They have, instead, used the additional tax take from the migrants to try to pay down the cost of bailing out the banks in preference to increasing taxation for the same end.

In short, our problem is, as ever, economic short termism. People prefer to suspend their intelligence and vote for whatever manifesto they think will be cheapest for them tomorrow, and then moan when cheapest doesn't turn out to be best. But, these are the same people whose short sighted wishes we must all bow to in the name of democracy. Phooey!


As the world is entering recession led by Germany .........

It makes sense to trim unnecessary overheads like the money we give to the EU ...........



user747
Posted: 15 January 2019 11:53 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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antony1969 - 2019-01-15 7:53 PM

The man who could be Liebour leader according to Ollie ... https://twitter.com/Khyberman/status/1084851600705945601


The Marxist Government of Comrade Corbyn will be short lived. After the knife in his back, Keir Starmer will take over leadership of the Labour Party.

Remember, you heard it here first.

Edited by 747 2019-01-15 11:54 PM
userBulletguy
Posted: 16 January 2019 12:04 AM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-15 10:42 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-15 9:07 PM

antony1969 - 2019-01-13 11:56 AM

Much more powerful speech here ... https://brexitcentral.com/leaving-eu-wto-terms-will-make-businesses-competitive-innovative/ ... "The IMF estimate that 90% of global growth in the next 10-15years is likely to come from outside the EU" ... The world is our oyster

But, that is a rather misleading statistic. 90% of global growth is, of course, a forecast. How could you Antony? I mean, a forecast!

But, seriously, what is it based on? Emerging markets will always tend to grow faster than mature markets, they start from lower, so they rise faster.

That doesn't make it sensible to reject a large, wealthy, mature market on one's doorstep, merely to cultivate ties with the emerging markets - which will, by their nature, be more volatile than the mature markets. Better by far to remain close to the mature market, even more so if one trades with the mature market tariff free. The mature market provides the bread and butter, and the emerging markets can then provide the cherries on the cake as and where they generate growth.

Nothing presently stops the UK from doing this. There is no legal restraint on it. Germany does it far more successfully from within the EU than the UK, by a factor of, if I remember, about 10. Why?

We do not need trade deals to trade, as some seem to think. The EU does not prevent external trade, only the conclusion of trade deals by one EU member that could place other EU states at an unfair disadvantage within the single market.

Our problem, which has been the case since well before we joined the EU, is that we import much more than we export, and we have low productivity. We were, and we remain, a high cost - low wage economy with poor productivity. If we fixed the productivity problem, mainly attributable to low investment levels, we could begin to reverse that long established trend.

Instead of investing, our industrialists have traditionally sought to import labour as a cheap fix. When they no longer need the labour, they are laid off - which means handed over to the state to pay for. It used to be called "hire and fire", and underlies much of the labour relations problems that gave rise to belligerent unionisation.

But, once here, those migrants tend to stay, swelling our population and increasing demands on housing, the NHS, education, infrastructure etc. etc. Since the 2008 crash our governments have not increased spending on these functions to match the increase in population, so housing has become expensive and services and infrastructure have deteriorated. They have, instead, used the additional tax take from the migrants to try to pay down the cost of bailing out the banks in preference to increasing taxation for the same end.

In short, our problem is, as ever, economic short termism. People prefer to suspend their intelligence and vote for whatever manifesto they think will be cheapest for them tomorrow, and then moan when cheapest doesn't turn out to be best. But, these are the same people whose short sighted wishes we must all bow to in the name of democracy. Phooey!


As the world is entering recession led by Germany .........

It makes sense to trim unnecessary overheads like the money we give to the EU ...........

Yet over the past two and half years it's cost UK billions more than what we would have paid EU......and not one pip squeak from you rabid Brexiters over that insanity.
userpelmetman
Posted: 16 January 2019 9:35 AM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-01-16 12:04 AM

Yet over the past two and half years it's cost UK billions more than what we would have paid EU......



Still spreading that myth Bullet ...........

If folk want to see the country lose REAL billions......vote for Corbyn ..........



Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-16 9:37 AM
userantony1969
Posted: 16 January 2019 9:52 AM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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747 - 2019-01-15 11:53 PM

antony1969 - 2019-01-15 7:53 PM

The man who could be Liebour leader according to Ollie ... https://twitter.com/Khyberman/status/1084851600705945601


The Marxist Government of Comrade Corbyn will be short lived. After the knife in his back, Keir Starmer will take over leadership of the Labour Party.

Remember, you heard it here first.


Aaaaaw c'mon .... Surely Diane Abbott deserves a shot first ... She would work 28 hours a day , 11 days a week and 437 days a year to make a success of it
userBulletguy
Posted: 16 January 2019 3:36 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-16 9:35 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-16 12:04 AM

Yet over the past two and half years it's cost UK billions more than what we would have paid EU......



Still spreading that myth Bullet ...........

£500m a week is no myth unlike your £350m a week NHS lie which is just one claim you're going to be held to account over. I think a start will be to seize all assets of Brexiters and put them to use labouring on the fruit 'n veg farms. Diversity training will do 'em all good.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 16 January 2019 4:35 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-15 10:42 PM.....................As the world is entering recession led by Germany .........
It makes sense to trim unnecessary overheads like the money we give to the EU ...........

Odd, then, that the US economists seem to think it is their trade war with China, ain't it?
It doesn't, because that money is seed corn that will yield greater growth in the future. Putting in an investment and then writing it off before the returns come isn't sense, and nor is leaving a trading block through which we gain tariff free access to the market with which we do about half our trade, and favourable access to a number of major markets beyond that. That is, IMO, the height of stupidity and will plunge the UK into a far deeper recession.

We have been there before, for similarly doctrinaire (though quite different) reasons.

I quote Wiki:

"As with most of the rest of the developed world, recession hit the United Kingdom at the beginning of the 1980s. That followed a string of crises that had plagued the British economy for most of the 1970s. Consequently, unemployment had gradually increased since the mid-1960s.

When the Conservative Party, led by Margaret Thatcher won the general election of May 1979, and swept James Callaghan's Labour Party from power, the country had just witnessed the Winter of Discontent in which numerous public sector workers had staged strikes. Inflation was about 10% and some 1.5 million people were unemployed, compared to some 1 million in 1974, 580,000 in 1970 and just over 300,000 in 1964. Thatcher set about controlling inflation with monetarist policies and changing trade union legislation in an attempt to reduce the strikes of public-sector workers.

Thatcher's battle against inflation raised the exchange rate, resulting in the closure of many factories, shipyards and coal pits because imports were cheaper. Inflation fell below 10% by the turn of 1982, having peaked at 22% in 1980, and by spring 1983, it had fallen to a 15-year low of 4%. Strikes were also at their lowest level since the early 1950s, and wage growth rose to 3.8% by 1983.

However, unemployment reached 3 million, or 12.5% of the workforce, by January 1982, a level that had not seen for some 50 years. The unemployment rate would remain similarly high for a number of years afterwards. Northern Ireland was the hardest-hit region, with unemployment standing at nearly 20%. The rate exceeded 15% in much of Scotland and Northern England. By April 1983, Britain, once known globally as the "workshop of the world" became a net importer of goods for the first time in modern times[dubious – discuss]. Areas of Tyneside, Yorkshire, Merseyside, South Wales, Western Scotland and the West Midlands were particularly hard hit by the loss of industry and subsequent sharp rise in unemployment. Only in the Southeast England did unemployment remain below 10%.

Despite the economic recovery that followed the early 1980s recession, unemployment in the United Kingdom barely fell until the second half of the decade. As late as 1986, unemployment exceeded 3 million, but it fell below that figure the following year. By the end of 1989, it had fallen to 1.6 million.
"

In 1990 John Major became Prime Minister.

Moral? When facing a world recession it is better not to do things that damage your own economy. Not hard, is it?
userpelmetman
Posted: 16 January 2019 10:49 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 4:35 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-15 10:42 PM.....................As the world is entering recession led by Germany .........
It makes sense to trim unnecessary overheads like the money we give to the EU ...........

Odd, then, that the US economists seem to think it is their trade war with China, ain't it?
It doesn't, because that money is seed corn that will yield greater growth in the future. Putting in an investment and then writing it off before the returns come isn't sense, and nor is leaving a trading block through which we gain tariff free access to the market with which we do about half our trade, and favourable access to a number of major markets beyond that. That is, IMO, the height of stupidity and will plunge the UK into a far deeper recession.

We have been there before, for similarly doctrinaire (though quite different) reasons.

I quote Wiki:

"As with most of the rest of the developed world, recession hit the United Kingdom at the beginning of the 1980s. That followed a string of crises that had plagued the British economy for most of the 1970s. Consequently, unemployment had gradually increased since the mid-1960s.

When the Conservative Party, led by Margaret Thatcher won the general election of May 1979, and swept James Callaghan's Labour Party from power, the country had just witnessed the Winter of Discontent in which numerous public sector workers had staged strikes. Inflation was about 10% and some 1.5 million people were unemployed, compared to some 1 million in 1974, 580,000 in 1970 and just over 300,000 in 1964. Thatcher set about controlling inflation with monetarist policies and changing trade union legislation in an attempt to reduce the strikes of public-sector workers.

Thatcher's battle against inflation raised the exchange rate, resulting in the closure of many factories, shipyards and coal pits because imports were cheaper. Inflation fell below 10% by the turn of 1982, having peaked at 22% in 1980, and by spring 1983, it had fallen to a 15-year low of 4%. Strikes were also at their lowest level since the early 1950s, and wage growth rose to 3.8% by 1983.

However, unemployment reached 3 million, or 12.5% of the workforce, by January 1982, a level that had not seen for some 50 years. The unemployment rate would remain similarly high for a number of years afterwards. Northern Ireland was the hardest-hit region, with unemployment standing at nearly 20%. The rate exceeded 15% in much of Scotland and Northern England. By April 1983, Britain, once known globally as the "workshop of the world" became a net importer of goods for the first time in modern times[dubious – discuss]. Areas of Tyneside, Yorkshire, Merseyside, South Wales, Western Scotland and the West Midlands were particularly hard hit by the loss of industry and subsequent sharp rise in unemployment. Only in the Southeast England did unemployment remain below 10%.

Despite the economic recovery that followed the early 1980s recession, unemployment in the United Kingdom barely fell until the second half of the decade. As late as 1986, unemployment exceeded 3 million, but it fell below that figure the following year. By the end of 1989, it had fallen to 1.6 million.
"

In 1990 John Major became Prime Minister.

Moral? When facing a world recession it is better not to do things that damage your own economy. Not hard, is it?


It's curious then that we have achieved the best employment figures since the 70's..........

AFTER we voted for Brexit ......................

I seem to recall the prediction coming from George Osborne was that we'd lose 820,000 jobs within 2 years of the vote ..........

Moral?..........Don't believe the Remoaner doom & gloom merchants .........

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 17 January 2019 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-16 10:49 PM......................
It's curious then that we have achieved the best employment figures since the 70's..........
AFTER we voted for Brexit ......................
I seem to recall the prediction coming from George Osborne was that we'd lose 820,000 jobs within 2 years of the vote ..........
Moral?..........Don't believe the Remoaner doom & gloom merchants .........

Those were the forecast outcomes of Brexit, not just of the vote. If you want to prove the forecasts wrong, wait for two years after Brexit - if you dare!

The employment figures reflect four things. First, the percentage of people of working age currently in employment. Second, the number of people who need to work to maintain their families. Third, the increased size of the population over the same period. Fourth, the number of available jobs. If the forecasts are right - even approximately - the most visible effect will be a reduction in the number of available job vacancies, followed shortly by a rise in unemployment. If business contracts, as seems pretty much inevitable post Brexit (but what form of Brexit?), who will employ all those people? It ain't that difficult, is it?
userpelmetman
Posted: 17 January 2019 10:51 PM
Subject: RE: Powerful speech
 


Walks with the gods

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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-17 3:17 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 10:49 PM......................
It's curious then that we have achieved the best employment figures since the 70's..........
AFTER we voted for Brexit ......................
I seem to recall the prediction coming from George Osborne was that we'd lose 820,000 jobs within 2 years of the vote ..........
Moral?..........Don't believe the Remoaner doom & gloom merchants .........

Those were the forecast outcomes of Brexit, not just of the vote. If you want to prove the forecasts wrong, wait for two years after Brexit - if you dare!

The employment figures reflect four things. First, the percentage of people of working age currently in employment. Second, the number of people who need to work to maintain their families. Third, the increased size of the population over the same period. Fourth, the number of available jobs. If the forecasts are right - even approximately - the most visible effect will be a reduction in the number of available job vacancies, followed shortly by a rise in unemployment. If business contracts, as seems pretty much inevitable post Brexit (but what form of Brexit?), who will employ all those people? It ain't that difficult, is it?


That was the forecasts of what would happen IMMEDIATELY if we voted for Brexit Brian ..........

We were also told there would be an immediate punishment budget ..........

The only one that got punished was Osborne for spouting total b*llocks ..........

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