Pre-Budget Report Poll

[Administrator]

Have measures announced in Chancellor Alistair Darling's pre-Budget report done enough to reinvigorate consumer spending and kick-start the economy?

 

What are your views on the announcement and what impact might it have on you and your outdoor lifestyle?

 

We'd love to hear your thoughts once the speech starts at 3.30pm today.

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

 

Errr.....NO!

 

and I have not looked yet *-)

[CliveH]

The tax cuts are welcome but typical that the drop in fuel prices will be offset by a tax hike.

 

To be fair he had to do something or we would all be sliding into genteel poverty as a country.

 

But the issue is that despite record sell offs and tax revenues Gordon squandered a lot of it of public spending projects that we as tax payers have never ever seen any advantage. So this raft of tax cuts will have to be paid for in the future.

 

What must we all be asking is how many more U turns is credible for a government?

 

The 10p tax debacle, the Road Tax debacle - all examples of tax raising the government have been forced to drop or delay. Rumour has it that Land Rover/Jaguar and their new owners Tata had a meeting with Darling and told him exactly what the proposed RTD would do to them in the UK. I can only guess at Tata's long term plans for producing these cars in the UK if the market in the UK was decimated by such a tax hike.

 

Will the budget alter my activities - I don’t think so as I can easily make economies if I have to on simple things like not eating out as much. In fact cooking in the porch awning on a George Forman (i.e. a kind of winter BBQ) with a glass of wine in my hand even in the depths of winter is a very enjoyable.

 

It is sad for the pubs tho' as they will get less business. Pubs round here are closing one after the other - very sad.

 

[Guest Tracker]

As with everything else that this Government does or says no doubt the full truth will emerge over the next few days, and it may well be devilled by the detail as usual?

 

First glance tends to confirm my suspicion that there is very little to induce optimism or confidence for the average UK taxpayer in this statement.

 

As a typical example, a 2.5% reduction in VAT will reduce the price of a £600 TV by the princely sum of £13 - down to £587 - big deal!

 

Cynical? Me? You bet your boots I am!

 

 

[malc d]

I doubt that, by itself, this budget will kick-start the economy as there aren't many people who listen to, or trust, politicians.

 

I think the tabloid media is more likely to have an effect - if they encourage people to spend, it's more likely to happen.

 

:-(

[Mick H.]

Want to encourage big spending and help the environment. Take the road tax which is only £35 a year anyway, off the small cars. People will be queing up to buy them.

 

Mick

[Guest Tracker]

Mick H. - 2008-11-24 5:32 PM

 

Want to encourage big spending and help the environment. Take the road tax which is only £35 a year anyway, off the small cars. People will be queing up to buy them.

 

Mick

 

Except that due to consistent government support for the motor industry the only makers of small economical cars are all foreign and will need to be imported!

[Mick H.]

Show me a large 'British' business that is British.

[davenewellhome]

I don't see the point of the 2.5% reduction in VAT, £25 off in £1000 spent??? Whoopy doo!!! Okay I suppose it will make a difference to those who can afford a £40,000 plus motorhome but for the majority of spending its a tiny reduction.

 

One downside of the VAT reduction is the extra work it will create for businesses. We now have to re-price our entire stock range and sort the website prices in time for next monday, not a huge problem for us with about a hundred or less products but what about on line businesses with stock ranges in the thousands?? It will create a huge extra workoad for them.

 

D.

[BGD]

I disagree fundamentally with the Labour Government's tactics on this.

 

The problem that the UK has collapsed under, which has been euphamistically referred to as the Credit Crunch", should more accurately be called the "Borrowing Bust".

 

The cause of the implosion is the utterly incredible amounts of money that have been borrowed over the past decade by two defined groups: individuals, and the Government.

 

The average debt (AFTER removing mortgage debt from the numbers) PER household in the UK is now about £34,000.

Just pause and mull that over for a few moments.

Try to get a picture in your head of all the households in your town. Then in the city near you. Then in EVERY other city, village, housing estate, farm, across ALL of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Then multiply that total number of housholds by 34,000.

And that's the level of personal borrowing that individuals in the UK now owe.

 

Then consider what the Government has been borrowing over the past 11 years that it has been in power. Throughout that period, even throughout the boom, it has been spending so much of taxpayers money that even on top of all the record tax receipts from businesses and individuals throughout that period, it has STILL as of now borrowed MORE in the past 11 years than ALL the Governmnet borrowings of EVERY other UK Govenment ADDED TOGETHER.

Yes. That's right.

The taxpayers now collectively owe ('cos it's the taxpayers who have to pay back Governmnet Borrowing through future taxes) more now than in every single other Govenment in history, combined.

 

These two factors are what have caused the "Borrowing Bust" to be so much more crippling in the UK than in other countries....many of whom had Public Sector Surpluses as they entered this "Bust" period, and can thus increase Governmnet expenditure to provide Fiscal boost, adn pay for the mssive increase in Social Security payments that will need to be given out to the huge numbers of unemplyed and their families in the coming months/years.

 

 

Now, if because you'ce been spending for year far more than you've been receiving and you are now way over your head in debt, what are the two things that any rational person has to do the get out of that hole?

 

1. Stop spending.

Or at least, dramatically cut back on your spending rate, and cut out all non-essential spending. Now in the Giovernments case there is some spending which is going to go up through the roof in the coming months/years over wheich they have little control: unemployment and Social Security payments to the hugely increasing number of people who lose employment.

 

2. Start Paying back your debts, to reduce the interest burden.

In the case of the UK, the amount that the Governmnet now owes because it has been spending like a drunken sailor in a whorehouse for years, means that JUST THE INTEREST PAYMENTS ALONE are costing over 3% of total GDP (the combined value of all goods and services and incomes of every business and every person in the UK each year). That's not to repay any of that mountain of debt, that's just to pay the daily interest bill.

 

What the Government SHOULD be doing, is savagely (and I'm afraid I do mean SAVAGELY) cutting Public Sector spending.

Because it's income is going to drammatically decline every month through the next couple of years, and any sane person in that situation would reduce all and every area of their discretionary spending to compensate abd to stop themselves sinking yet further into debt.

 

But what is Labour actually going to do?

 

Massively further increase national borrowing.

Sheer lunacy.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Not surprised you repeated that, Brucey, after you include individuals and the Government, there aren't many of us left!  :-)

[york brewery]

I agree with Dave

Beer prices hit again. and a nightmare to sort out vat and duty by next monday.

 

Mr Darling will not pay the extra wage costs and upgrades to implement the changes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chatterdog]

Better off - Does it help - No

from what i perceive anyone in the transport business or persons with a small business using vehicles is going to be worse off

 

effectively fuel has been increased in price by 2.2% - another great new labour tax cut.. even though VAT has been cut

 

on a 108p litr of diesel the current cost is 92p plus reclaimable VAT of 16p apply the new increase on fuel and the decrease in VAT

and

now on 108p a ltr the COST will be 94p with reclaimable VAT of 14p

 

well maybe not quite worse off as i think the amout we will be beter off by is something like 3 tenths of a penny, so who thinks that this is going to help prices drop in the shops to the general consumer

 

 

[Bazza454]

york brewery - 2008-11-24 8:44 PM Beer prices hit again. and a nightmare to sort out vat and duty by next monday.

My understanding is that the retail price of beers, wines and spirits will not change.

The reduction in VAT will be offset by an increase in the duty therefore it will be tax neutral.

There may be additional workload of administration for the brewers and wholesalers but this should be a one-off and doesn't have to be completed by Monday. 

[BGD]

Brian Kirby - 2008-11-24 7:20 PM

 

Not surprised you repeated that, Brucey, after you include individuals and the Government, there aren't many of us left!  :-)

 

 

 

The 3rd party in this "triangle", which I did not mention, but which contributes more taxes to the Government than all individuals combined in the UK, is Businesses.

 

As taxpayers, they are collectively a bigger cash-cow for the Government than individuals........through Corporation Tax, VAT, import duties, Taxes on dividend yields, Employers National Insurance, etc etc etc.

 

But maybe not in the future, as more and more of them are driven away from the UK by the ever-increasing burden of tax, regulation, bureacracy.

 

 

 

 

[net-traveller]

My take on the budget, as the average man in the street, is very cynical but here goes.

 

2.5% drop in the 17.5% VAT won't have any effect on consumers. A comment on Newsnight last night pointed out that the High Street has been cutting prices by 20% and it hasn't made a diference so 2.5% doesn't have a chance. It would have been better to reduce the VAT on gas & electric thereby benefiting everybody for the next 13 months. There is no VAT on food bought from shops so no help there.

 

I have calculated that, on broadband & mobile charges, I will be better off to the tune of 66p per month so, naturally, I'll be off on a spending spree soon.

 

They have said that they hope the reduction will be passed on but if it isn't then it will still help as it will give business a bit extra. I find this incredible. We, as consumers, already fund business. When we pay upfront for goods and services and then wait weeks and months for delivery the business has the use of our money free of charge. If they had to borrow the same money from the markets they would have to pay for the privilege.

 

Drivers, drinkers & smokers do not benefit from the VAT as the duty has been increased to take account of that, and the duty will not reduce when the VAT returns to normal 1 Jan 2010. On fuel it seems that this is a backdoor way of bringing back the fuel escalator which was suspended in October.

 

Bringing forward the pensions & child benefit increase by 3 months looks good until you realise that the IR, when issuing tax codes, made the assumption that benefits received this year would not be changed until April. This means that the increase will be taxed in next year. e.g. a pension increase of £4.55 pw x 13 weeks = £59.15 will incur a tax increase next year of £11.83. Of course they could increase the tax allowance to cover this but somehow I doubt it.

 

On taxation the reason for the removal of the 10p band, which is still not fully compensated, was to make it simpler. So they've added a new tax band. Why couldn't they have fixed the 10p?

 

I don't believe that this budget will help us. I'm more inclined to the IMF etal view that we will suffer more than most in the developed world and for the current government to deny this and continue to insist that we are in a better position than the rest is to assume that we're all stupid.

 

I also believe that the government expects to be booted out at the next election and are doing what the last Lab mob did in the late 70s. They spent and then went cap-in-hand to the IMF who imposed serious restraints. This led to the 15% rates of the next government who were reacting to the state the country had been left in.

 

Just my opinion.

 

;-)

[Keith T]

Jus a mathematically point - the 'reduction from 17.5 to 15%' in VAt, doesn't actaully work out at £25 per £1000 spent.......so even the supposed 'generosity' of the chancellor is a con.

To find the 'real' value, you need to divide £1000 by 117.5 (as the initial figuire includes VAT),then multiply by 115 ( to include the new rate), and the resultant figure just under 979...ie a 'saving' of only slightly over £21 per £1000!

This does not seem to have been picked up by many of the commentators, and certainly not Alistair Darling - although even he must have worked this one out!!!!(tohis benefit, of course!)

[embee]

Rushed out this morning to beat the rush to buy all I need for the next 13 months whilst I can save nearly 2.5% on the VAT !!

 

Whow !

 

No need to have rushed my other half out of bed so early - Tunbridge Well was empty. More so than we have ever seen infact .

 

The only people in just about every shop and store were sales staff standing around chatting.

 

Very, very depressing and we have only just started the recession. Lord only knows what is going to happen over the next few months.

 

One thing for sure - from 2011 onwards we will all be being paying more in every conceivable tax the Government can come up with.

 

Road tax on caravans anyone ??????

 

Michael

 

 

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

embee - 2008-12-01 7:25 PM

 

Road tax on caravans anyone ??????

 

 

What a great idea, and on bikes too, and prams, and pedestrians - in fact on anything that causes a mobile chicane to hold us holidaying motor homers up!

[chatterdog]

Tracker - 2008-12-01 7:37 PM

 

embee - 2008-12-01 7:25 PM

 

Road tax on caravans anyone ??????

 

 

What a great idea, and on bikes too, and prams, and pedestrians - in fact on anything that causes a mobile chicane to hold us holidaying motor homers up!

 

Oi you can go of people tha knows Tracker.