Jump to content

Queen's Speech


GJH

Recommended Posts

Did you listen to the monkeys in the zoo afterwards? What a pathetic bunch of hangers on!

Why can't they have a decent debate instead of all shouting at once. Had to turn it off due to a headache.

Worse than a bunch of school kids and they are making our laws!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Miami - 2007-11-06 4:34 PM

Worse than a bunch of school kids and they are making our laws!!!!

Many of them wouldn't have the brains for that John - most of them just pass the laws that have been drafted by officials who tell them what to do.If politicians (all parties) wanted change they would have replaced the Commons Chamber (designed for adversarial debate) with a room designed to reach consensus years ago.As Jill is fond of saying, most people who think they are worth electing to parliament aren't worth voting for :-D Graham
Link to comment
Share on other sites

GJH - 2007-11-06 4:42 PM

 

If politicians (all parties) wanted change they would have replaced the Commons Chamber (designed for adversarial debate) with a room designed to reach consensus years ago.

 

Quite right. Everyone who builds a "parliament" building nowadays (including devolved bits of the UK!) goes for some sort of "amphitheatre" layout.

 

As Jill is fond of saying, most people who think they are worth electing to parliament aren't worth voting for :-D

 

Graham

 

I've long held the theory (which I don't claim is original) that no-one who actually WANTS political power should be allowed near it. Some of the ancient Greek city-states had a kind of "conscription," where someone who DIDN'T want the job would be elected, and had to get on with it.

Sounds good to me!

 

Tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony Jones - 2007-11-06 4:52 PM

Quite right. Everyone who builds a "parliament" building nowadays (including devolved bits of the UK!) goes for some sort of "amphitheatre" layout.

 

It reminds me of an occasion about 20 years ago when we had a lad on work experience in our office. I took him along with me to a meeting and he was amazed that we sat round a table and tried to work out problems together. He had expected us to be shouting at each other as he had seen on TV.

 

So sad that too many people think conflict before construction.

 

Graham

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Miami - 2007-11-06 4:34 PM

Did you listen to the monkeys in the zoo afterwards? What a pathetic bunch of hangers on!

Why can't they have a decent debate instead of all shouting at once. Had to turn it off due to a headache.

Worse than a bunch of school kids and they are making our laws!!!!

they manage to claim there £137,000 expenses though, who,s the the mugs? :-(
Link to comment
Share on other sites

GJH - 2007-11-06 7:36 PM

 

Syd - 2007-11-06 7:20 PM

 

Now just who do you think writes the majority of the Queens speach

 

Well it could be the government couldn't it

Only the majority Syd? Thought they wrote the lot :-D

 

Graham

 

 

How on earth she dont choke on all those outright lies I will never know.

She must know that she is preaching lies yet she still preaches them to us while also preaching to us the benefits of "HONESTY" and "Sincerity"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not too bothered about royalty, neither for or against them, I manage quiet well without knowing anything much about them other than they are mostly of German decent (I think)

 

In my humble opinion she is perpetuating a rotton system by preaching their rubbish when she undoubtedly knows that it is rubbish.

 

She is a very intelegent woman so why does she do it, could it have anything to do with her wanting to keep her families "special treatments"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Syd - 2007-11-06 11:10 PM

 

Not too bothered about royalty, neither for or against them, I manage quiet well without knowing anything much about them other than they are mostly of German decent (I think)

That's an oft-quoted myth, Syd, which we come across quite often working in a family history business. It's true that HM has German ancestry on her father's side but her mother's ancestry was mainly Scots. There's a set of pages on Wikipedia which summarise a few generations back.

 

Graham

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyway, we're all immigrants in this country (England that is - Scotland & Wales are special cases). It's just that some of our ancestors have been here a bit longer than others.

 

So the Queen's ancestry is neither here nor there. If you want to discuss her merits, judge her on whether she does a good job or not - and start another thread for it. The "Queen's Speech" is actually about the government, not her.

 

Tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for putting me right Graham

No wonder that she gets on well with Gordon then

 

At the risk of upsetting Tony can I ask you just what powers does the Queen have to make any changes to anything, speaches or other

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't get me wrong - I'm no fervent Royalist, and I'm certainly no fan of the hereditary principle. I just want to see the debate (if we're going to have one) conducted in a way that makes sense.

 

You're certainly right that the laws we get are nothing to do with her, which is as it should be. The job's more "symbolic" that anything, so let's talk about alternative ways of setting it up if you like.

 

Tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure thing Tony.

 

Personally, without any deep thought being put into this, I think I would prefer to have a similar set up to what we have now but with the Queen having a bit more of a say in what happens.

Maybe bringing back some form of veto or something through her refusal to sign the documents

 

It riles me somewhat to see her spouting out rubbish that I know she doesn't believe but she has to lie to us because of protocol.

That is very wrong

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My original post on this thread was very much tongue in cheek but Tony makes very valid points.

 

Someone on TV yesterday (not sure who now) mentioned the two sides to parliament currently - the historical pageantry like the State Opening and the "business" side.

 

I think he was correct in saying that the two have to be separated. The fact that we have a State Opening with all it entails is very much a pageantry thing but should be seen as separate from the content of the Queen's Speech.

 

Whatever one thinks of heredity, I believe it has been shown on a number of occasions that the cost of maintaining the Royal Family (much of which would remain if we had a president) is offset by the tourism earnings from people visiting the country to witness the various ceremonies. I am not, therefore, convinced by arguments that the Queen should be replaced by an alternative (political) head of state.

 

One thing I should like to see is a fully elected second chamber to replace the House of Lords. To me, any model which allows appointees by the party in power at the time is flawed.

 

Above all though, as mentioned yesterday, I should like to see a political attitude (in all parties) which puts consensus first. For instance, IMHO, Cameron and Brown just made themselves look silly in their argument yesterday over whether Labour had stolen Conservative ideas on inheritance tax. Why couldn't they have said "I see both our plans for inheritance tax are very similar, how can we work together to reach agreement"?

 

Graham

 

 

 

Graham

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Graham

Yes, cannot argue with much of that, how about the Queen selecting the people from party nominations who are to be elevated to the House of Lords with restrictions being put into place on known political party members numbers ie 50 labour and 50 Conservative, then Liberals and others in decending order with the Queen being able to veto any nominations, and a certain number chosen independently by the Queen without political party considerations being involved.

 

Keep the pagentry by all means, it is something that I think binds us together too and gives us a sense of pride. I do believe the country makes a profit out of the monarcy but also believe the monarcy trousers the most.

Let's get rid of all the hangers on in royalty only recognising and keeping the next two direct heirs to the throne

 

Agree with regards to the consensus approach, what is belittleing about admitting that you don't have the monopoly on good ideas and that someone else has had a good idea too.

I think that subject to the persons name who worked out a good plan being attached to the bill the government should be expected to implement anyones good ideas. This would demonstrate a determination to do the best they can for the country

 

Back to our Queen

What powers does she already have, not many I fear, this should be changed to enable her to check and ballance those in power, she should be allowed to question everything that she has to sign, but how do you ensure impartiality.

 

Sorry if this is seen as a fools ramble but have never really thought about this before

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Back to our Queen
What powers does she already have, not many I fear, this should be changed to enable her to check and ballance those in power, she should be allowed to question everything that she has to sign, but how do you ensure impartiality.

Syd

I have to be very careful of what I say here, but if you had too much influence then you may get something like what has happened in my birth country of Thailand.

It's a political hot bed, with the hands of both the King & Queen of the country,not only having a major influence on party politics but also on how certain politicians are seen to act.Even to the fact that the King has been asked to intervene in disputes between different political parties. 

The armed forces are at the command of their majesties - where the King is revered as a God King.

I've forgotten the number of military coups that have taken place - since Siam became Thailand in 1948 - all under the democratic flag.

Better end here for now.

Thai

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...