crinklystarfish Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Worse, perhaps, than just being temporarily a few bob lighter. By 23rd September this year we had used all of the resources that the Earth is capable of supplying in one year. That means from 24th September to 31st December we are effectively ‘borrowing’ from future years’ resources. There is no IMF for the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J9withdogs Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 ..and the solution is? I tend not to worry about things over which I have no control. I do my bit for the environment but what more should we personally be doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 J9withdogs - 2008-11-20 10:22 AM ..and the solution is? I tend not to worry about things over which I have no control. I do my bit for the environment but what more should we personally be doing? I agree Janine, without wishing to sound holier than thou, short of holing ourselves up in a cave etc etc what can we do? We really make an effort thanks in no small part to finding out and learning more about recycling, wasting heat etc etc. Martyn - just looking for my loincloth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 J9withdogs - 2008-11-20 10:22 AM ..and the solution is? I tend not to worry about things over which I have no control. I do my bit for the environment but what more should we personally be doing? Same here, Trouble is we don't really know what the 'facts' are, but I think most people recognise that there is a problem. So we can only do our bit but, we can't influence the rest of the world. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Like others on this thread I recycle all I can and also freecycle lots of things to save landfill. However, recycling of course has now hit a big glitch as no-one now wants our waste paper and plastic etc. as the bottom has fallen out of the market. So where do we go from here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I would not get too het up about it. Most of the fear is driven by those with an agenda. A new film is on its way and a preview can be seen at:- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sHMOEVRysWE and is really worth a watch That will do for Al Gore (A British Judge decreed that his film that scares the pants of our children has no less that 9 inconvenient untruths in it - and for that he gets an Oscar and the Nobel Prize - it's a funny old world when you can lie and get a couple of prizes for it) and the other spinners (such as Hansen from NASA who fiddled the data to prove that 1998 was the hottest year ever when in fact a proper analysis of the data shows that 1934 was the hottest year.) http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/347541/nasa_admits_that_1934_not_1998_was.html And do read this! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/11/16/do1610.xml No one should squander resources and we should all do our bit. We here shut up our offices and now work from home - only meeting once every week or two but to be fair with our Skype phones we do not even need to do that really. So we no longer commute into an office, we no longer pay rent and heat a building we do not live in, so we can all do our bit. But please do not let the doomongers worry you - only 30 years ago Hansen from NASA was predicting the end of the world through Global Cooling. Articles in Newsweek where just as alarmist as the Global warming ones of today - only difference is that we were going to freeze not boil. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1310991/posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Yes, Clive, I agree about the global warming doom-mongers but I was thinking more about less land-fill etc. I too remember all the scare stories that we were in for another ice-age and I watched a brilliant documentary with loads of scientists who were able to prove (at least to me) that statistically the world has gone through these cycles for millions of years. They blamed the fact for the doom-mongering on the massive number of people whose livelihood now depends on the global warming myth and said governments perpetuated the myth because it would be too expensive to admit the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Global warming isn't really the issue here, unsustainable development is. There’s nothing wrong with a healthy scepticism and no doubt people will make their own judgements. Of course some already have, particularly those who have been displaced through such things as, for example, the destruction of primary rainforest to enable the manufacture of such indispensable items as mahogany toilet seats. Or to enable the grazing of cattle to supply burger chains. Or those displaced through flooded valleys in dam making schemes to support spiralling populations.For what it’s worth though, I accept that any attempt to ‘force’ people to change is bound to be met with resistance. Far better to simply make evidence available and hope people make informed judgements. It’s lamentable that it often requires that people are actually affected before they accept the need to change. The current economic situation is a good example. If we do accept there may be a problem further up the road, the question has been asked what do we do. Probably the best thing is to reign in our consumption. Not just down at the supermarket, but in all that we do. It’s pretty easily done and a happy by-product is that we save cash too. The ecological and economic arguments are far from mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I actually agree 100% with what you have said here Crinkly. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Unfortunately the government does not agree with you. Not so long ago the interest rate went up to discourage spending and now they are threatening to put it down even more (actually that would be good for me personally) to encourage us to spend even more!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Yes it really does rather hammer it home that we were only last year being told that we should all cut back and that green taxes on cars and travel would stop us from doing this and doing that - all to appease the strident voices of the extremist greens ( and i am not talking about the Christmas Brussel Sprouts here). And now the economy has taken a bit of a nose dive (which is exactly what the extremist environmentalists said they wanted!!) - we have all sorts of tax incentives waved at us to get us spending again. So what can we infer from all this? Well it is my belief that the so called green taxes were never that - they were a cynical stealth tax and always were. The proof being that when it all goes pear shaped those supposed green ideals go out of the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Maybe we could kill two birds with one stone. Encourage people to spend on: (e.g.) Solar panels Domestic wind turbines Home insulation Fuel efficient cars and only other goods that are not excessively packaged. .........thereby helping out the planet and the economy at the same time. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J9withdogs Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Good idea, Malc. I must admit that I am becoming more disciplined about switching lights and radiators off in unused rooms. What do you think about the idea of Gas/Electricity prices coming down after we were all conned to switch to fixed (more expensive) tarriffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Rising costs certainly do concentrate the mind on how to be more efficient with regards to energy supplies and agree with Clive on 'green taxes', but it does seem to be having some effect, especially when you see the ever increasing numbers of small low emission cars now on the roads. Only scratching the surface, but helps in its own small way and hopefully makes people more aware of how important natural resources really are. 'Prices coming down'. But when Jan. Amazing when the price of oil jumps price rises are implemented overnight, and now that its dropped suppliers are 'hopefull of passing these savings on to the consumer in the coming months'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertGS Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 The hypocrisy of 'Green' fanatics leaves me breathless! Mr Starfish recently posted a picture of his motorhome when it was parked in a picturesque spot in Norway, where he tells us that he spent four weeks driving thousands of miles.Was it a nice compact and fuel efficient model? It certainly doesn't look like it is. I would guess that it's a seven or eight metre behemoth! Have Mr. and Mrs. Starfish decided that, in this case, their own personal comforts outweigh their desire to save the planet?But if one of you dares to drive a modest 4 x 4.........Well, he's already told us how he feels about such dreadful people!The simple truth is that most people can somehow justify anything where their own desires are paramount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 J9withdogs - 2008-11-21 12:26 PM Good idea, Malc. I must admit that I am becoming more disciplined about switching lights and radiators off in unused rooms. What do you think about the idea of Gas/Electricity prices coming down after we were all conned to switch to fixed (more expensive) tarriffs? I'm sorry Janine but the supply, distribution and pricing of gas and electricity in this country is a complete mystery to me. When I was young ( before your time ) we used to buy gas from the gas board and electricity from the electricity board. So each ' board ' owned their own set of equipment, and had one office set up each. As far as I can fathom, nothing has happened to the equipment, but there are lots more offices set up by all sorts of incomers into the industry so that they can buy and sell both gas and electricity to EACH OTHER before they sell it to us. It therefore follows that the prices we pay now include the cost of all the extra staff in lots of new offices, who to my mind are totally superfluous to the basic supply chain. Additionally, we now have another layer of ' consultants ' who have set themselves up to advise us on how we can best spend all our leisure time chasing around trying to get the ' best ' price. ( I've no idea who is paying the consultants ). We can buy gas from an electricity company, but the gas doesn't come out of a light fitting, and we can buy electricity from a gas company but you can't read a book at night by the light from your gas cooker. ( Sorry, I've forgotten the question ) Oh yes, what do I think about the prices con ? I think it just up to individuals to decide how much time then want to spend chasing the ' best ' prices, but I suspect that over a period constantly changing will not make much difference to your overall bills. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Rupert,As I say, it’s about choices and personal conscience. I’ve cut my consumption enormously but don’t yet live in a wood and feed on grass. I do believe that we should examine our choices but don’t advocate everyone is issued with tie-dye and have their cars confiscated. I’m not sure if this means I’m a fanatic or not. I’d like to think my position is responsible rather than fanaticism. I’m content that I tread pretty lightly on the planet, lighter than most in the West I reckon, but recognise that you have the freedom to do as you please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ike Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Jan Having switched to a fixed rate a few months ago I'm now regretting it very much. Even if I now choose to switch to a different rate with the same company they would charge me £20 & £55 to come off the fixed tarrif. A complete and utter rip off! ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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