michele Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 A woman with multiple sclerosis has won permission to bring a High Court challenge to clarify the law on assisted suicide. Debbie Purdy, 45, from Bradford, is considering travelling to a country where assisted suicide is legal. But she is worried her husband, Omar Puente, could be arrested on his return from Belgium or Zurich, Switzerland. Her lawyers argued the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) acted illegally by not providing guidance. I want to wait until the last possible moment - if I can no longer bear being alive - but I cannot do that while there is a chance my husband will be prosecuted Debbie Purdy The DPP resisted the application. Sir Ken Macdonald, the director, has stated that there is no policy on assisted suicide, and it would be beyond his powers to grant immunity from prosecution. But Lord Justice Latham, sitting with Mr Justice Nelson at London's High Court, ruled that "without wishing to give Ms Purdy any optimism that her arguments will ultimately succeed", she did have an arguable case which should go to a full hearing. 'Pain is unbearable' Ms Purdy was diagnosed with primary progressive MS in March 1995. She can no longer walk and is gradually losing strength in her upper body. At some point she suggested that she may travel abroad and take a lethal dose of barbiturates prescribed by doctors at Dignitas - a Swiss organisation which runs clinics. HAVE YOUR SAY Clarification of the law is long overdue A, UK Send us your commentsMs Purdy wants her husband to be at her side when she dies - but fears he may be prosecuted on his return to Britain. Aiding or abetting a suicide is a crime punishable by up to 14 years imprisonment. Mrs Purdy said: "I am delighted that the courts have decided to officially review the law surrounding my case. "If the DPP does clarify that my husband will not be prosecuted for accompanying me to Dignitas, I will be able to wait until I¿m ready to go. "I want to wait until the last possible moment - if I can no longer bear being alive - but I cannot do that while there is a chance my husband will be prosecuted. "If the DPP does not give this assurance, then I would need to go to Dignitas a long time before I want to die, but at least I would know where I stand." 'Important step' Mrs Purdy's case is being supported by the organisation Dignity in Dying, which wants assisted suicide to be legal in Britain. Sarah Wootton, the chief executive, said: "This is an important step forward for Debbie Purdy and others like her. "If the DPP issues a policy on the law, Debbie may be able to live longer, knowing that if her suffering becomes too much to bear, she has the option of having an assisted death, with her husband by her side." Dr Peter Saunders, of Care Not Killing, which is opposed to assisted suicide, said: "The High Court Judges have simply granted permission for Debbie Purdy to have a full hearing in court but have made it very clear that they are not giving her any grounds for optimism that her arguments will succeed. "We welcome this opportunity to revisit the arguments and are confident that the court will find that, in order to protect vulnerable people from exploitation, the current law should be upheld." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 To be honest if she didnt publicise it and went about her business how would they know how and what went on . Her husband would be given a death cert and he would fly home no one any of the wiser . paul Macartney did it with Linda so I am told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J9withdogs Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I believe that, just as we have a right to live, we should also have the right to die. If we choose to take the option of ending our own life or assist someone close to us who cannot physically manage to do it but is compos mentis, then that should be our right too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 J9withdogs - 2008-06-11 4:44 PM I believe that, just as we have a right to live, we should also have the right to die. If we choose to take the option of ending our own life or assist someone close to us who cannot physically manage to do it but is compos mentis, then that should be our right too. I agree we should all have the choice but it's a very complicated issue because of the dangers/ possibilities of people with a vested interest being involved with the decision to end someones life. There would need to be a lot of safeguards. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J9withdogs Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I agree about the safeguards, but if they can manage it in other countries, why can't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 We are behind in so much . Does anyone remember the case of the very old chap 92 or something who helped his wife and got put in prison he said leave me here . I dont blame him madness isnt it ...there has to be ways around it just like Janine said if others countrys can do then why not us surely its up to the indiviual. I also remember the lady who had a terrible terrible ilness where by she would die a horrible death basically choking they would not let that lady die by her own choice they would rather force her to choke to death can you imagine the fear and panic. Similar at home we dont know how long the little one has left rather quality than quantity rather would not have to say either however if we had our way she wouldnt go to school what in the hell will they teach her but we have to tik boxes for the goverment Oooh get down shep no blue peter badge ...its all bloody madness somedays its all she can do to get up let alone be dragged to school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Right to die? Absolutely, indeed very many people every day manage to bring about the end of their own life. It isn't against the law to commit suicide. Indeed who would 'they' prosecute?Assisting in someone else's suicide? Illegal currently and a much bigger can of worms. It's open to all manner of exploitation. I personally think the law should be left alone. If someone really is in a position to make the judgement that they want to end their life in circumstances they find appropriate they will. No one needs to know; or care.The matter of seeking a judicial review regarding who may or may not help them is rather missing the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Apart from her hubby taking her there and helping with the transport bags etc etc she is choosing to do it so how can that be deemed as helping or assisting her . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 why you would want to talk about this beggars believe and the sooner you stop the quicker no one else as to read this as some could find it very upsetting. no im not insensitive to this poor woman but im sure she and none off her family would want others upset for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I would hope that no one would ever have to be in the position of having to make this sort of decisions, but unfortunately this isn't the case is it. I am no lawyer but to 'assist' would mean he would actively doing something, ie give drugs, help to cease life in some way. I don't believe that being in the same room is the same thing, but I stand to be corrected on this. The bigger issue is do you think you should have the right to choose when/how you die? - Should it be up to others to say that you must continue living if you, for whatever reason, did not want to do so? - Who should have the final say? - Do you think you have the right to say they must continue to suffer? I'm not talking about those for whom there is hope, but those who are suffering, intolerably, day to day and who know there is no possiblity whatsoever of them getting better, only getting worse. Despite the progress of the medical fraternity etc, unfortunately many people suffer terribly, or know that they will soon do so, this is the time that these questions should be asked and answered. I have my own views on this but as yet, fortunately, have not been in a position where this has been 'close to home'. I would hope, however, that I would make the right decision if the need arose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 michele - 2008-06-11 5:29 PM We are behind in so much . Does anyone remember the case of the very old chap 92 or something who helped his wife and got put in prison he said leave me here . I dont blame him madness isnt it ...there has to be ways around it just like Janine said if others countrys can do then why not us surely its up to the indiviual. I also remember the lady who had a terrible terrible ilness where by she would die a horrible death basically choking they would not let that lady die by her own choice they would rather force her to choke to death can you imagine the fear and panic. Similar at home we dont know how long the little one has left rather quality than quantity rather would not have to say either however if we had our way she wouldnt go to school what in the hell will they teach her but we have to tik boxes for the goverment Oooh get down shep no blue peter badge ...its all bloody madness somedays its all she can do to get up let alone be dragged to school. That is a terrible situation you are in Michelle :-S our instincts are to protect the ones we love and keep them from harm, in your situation I would be keeping her at home and B....r them ! its easy for me to say and you dont need me to advise you Im sure you know best, but she would be going only periodically and only when she wanted to if it was me. As to assisted suicide! we are told it is wrong to take our own lives but that is easy when its not you that is suffering, Im sure that they must be a way of doing it without leaving the Country and getting Family into trouble. Even so there has been a couple of instances like the lady who went with her Daughter to one of these places when she came back I think she faced questions but she wasnt punished its a terrible thing to lose a loved one that is a punishment in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 'right to die' will be an issue as long as quantity is prized over quality - medical science can now prolong life - regardless of any rationale. yet you are liable to prosecution if you had kept an animal alive artificially or if it were in pain. As for this particular case there is always the possibility that a do-gooder / religious organisation would stick their oar in and require that her husband by dealt with by the full splendour of the law. must be nice to be so very confident that you are doing the right thing. There have been several attempts to raise the legality of euthanasia - but no definite update has been made. The best we seem able to achieve is a DNR order; living wills have no real substance in law - although they 'will be considered in appropriate circumstances' I've always thought it important to live your life with dignity and self-respect- and that includes the final few minutes. B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Purely personal view: The quicker that the Human species finally grows out of the mumbo-jumbo (organised religion) that is holding back our development as rational beings, the better.....and the simpler such issues as personal rights will immediately become. The current laws on the subject in the UK, and indeed in most other western countries, have been and still are now, totally influenced by organised religious pressure groups; and the longer people keep blindly believing in such totally outdated claptrap, the longer such intellectual and rational oppression will continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 Here here ...there are ways and means and as someone pointed out you wouldnt do it to a dog . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Bruce A bit harsh there me-thinks! I don't think that just because you don't agree with religions, it doesn't give you the right to 'insult' it or those that do believe in it by calling it mumbo-jumbo or claptrap. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 Ah but Mel religion or no religion its all clap trap in this country . I dont see religion in it at all I see suffering and peoples right to end their own suffering when they feel they have had enough . I read past the religion part well it never went in anyway . Just agreeing that people should have the right to choose its a good job we got rid of hanging isnt it . I just feel that things in this courty are arse about tit so to speak . I went to a meeting and sat across to a professional Anorexic speach & language therapist who proceeded to tell me that the little one ws under weight lol....I nearly fell off the chair it was all I could do to keep from laughing out loud how in the hell are we to take her serious when she is painfully thin herself and she wants to tell us to force feed the child ,who I might add ot of interest eats fantastically its just in her genes to be small . Again these do gooders drive me mad its a good job we aint got them streatching machines still ,you know the ones in the olden days where they would tie you hands and legs and turn the wheel to stretch the person like torture they would have put her on there next as she is tiny as well . At 13 she is the height of a 6 year old ....Now thank god there isnt one but this crazyness makes me wonder what they hell they would do if there was one ..Seems to me that people like to interfere especially as she has no voice other than us so they all like to think they can go home with a big giant pat on the back stroke my ego professionals I hate them they wouldnt have a clue if it smacked them in the face the obvious . Whats this got to do with dieing why dont they leave people alone instead of trying to live there lives for them I am sure its more about the do gooders and a large pat on the back then it is about the sick person . I suppose what chance a person with a voice has to someone without a voice NONE it seems for either born free taxed to death and now they want to tell us when we can die with dignity ..double standards all of it . Personally if i wanted to go i would just swallow enough of something and go I certainly wouldnt be told I couldnt law or no law they can keep it . I have to laugh it makes me happy that the chineese population and other small statue populations dont bloody live it England we would fatten them all up because their BMI is low :D just so the do gooders could put a tick in a box big pat on the back winds me up these people seriously need to see someone quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 yup - ja - right on B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 I dont know it just winds me up that we the English well some do gooders think and presume that we know best ...WELL not all the time . I kid you not who do we think we are who do they think they are who or what gave them the right to decide for others I really do think its about Ego and a sick sense of I am never wrong . Why can people not look inside themselves and admit they are wrong . Actually some people cant see they are wrong in their world they are always right ...So its very frightening these do gooders cause lots of harm . Fancy being force fed everyday of your life fancy not being able to even remember if you have eaten or not and the shift changes and the next one stuffs more food in your mouth ..How terrible is that for someone . Fancy sitting there thinking I have had enough I just want to be left alone I just want to die ..How terrible for people who are ill to have the last thing that they will have control over in their lives taken away . by good dooers because thats what it has come to we do not have the right to choose . I am not talking about people who can not make the decision if they are not compus mentos enough then that in itself is very sad and no one should make that decision for them just because they have had enough or can't bear to see them like that . It has to always be about the person .. the persons needs and not the family as much as it hurts and makes you sad .People should have the right to choose and this country causes lots of suffering that should not be allowed . If faced with a horrible death I know what i would rather do and I would want that right to choose providing I was capable of choosing . rant over just winds me up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 michele - 2008-06-12 10:18 PM Fancy being force fed everyday of your life fancy not being able to even remember if you have eaten or not and the shift changes and the next one stuffs more food in your mouth ..How terrible is that for someone . Fancy sitting there thinking I have had enough I just want to be left alone I just want to die ..How terrible for people who are ill to have the last thing that they will have control over in their lives taken away . by good dooers because thats what it has come to we do not have the right to choose . I am not talking about people who can not make the decision if they are not compus mentos enough then that in itself is very sad and no one should make that decision for them just because they have had enough or can't bear to see them like that . It has to always be about the person .. the persons needs and not the family as much as it hurts and makes you sad .People should have the right to choose and this country causes lots of suffering that should not be allowed . If faced with a horrible death I know what i would rather do and I would want that right to choose providing I was capable of choosing . rant over just winds me up The answer should be 'Living Will' - you can make them - but there's no guarantee it will be honoured at the crucial moment. B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I think I must be missing something. We have a right to choose to die. It is exercised without any legal repercussions by many people every day. What we don’t have is a right to ‘assist’ someone else to kill themselves. This is because our wretched species is prone to exploiting others in a vulnerable position and if it were legal to help someone to end their life I suggest that there would be more cases of ‘help’ in dubious circumstances than ‘help’ in legitimate ones. By way of extreme example I recall the ‘assisted suicide’ of that German fellow quite recently where he subjected himself to cannibalism. There are also numerous cases of ‘snuff’ videos using assisted suicides as their subject matter. Assisting someone else to die is not always just a straightforward matter of compassion. I’m personally quite happy that the current law, though a blunt tool, provides appropriate safeguards. If all cases of assisted suicide could be guaranteed to be truly compassionate and the ‘victim’ of absolutely sound mind and in no way vulnerable to exploitation (which is probably a contradiction in terms anyway if they are facing such a monumental choice), I might have a different view. For clarity, if someone is in a position to make a rational choice to choose to die then they can, and do. It need be no more complicated. Quite why anyone who has made the decision, but then makes a song-and-dance about it in the public domain, is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 crinklystarfish - 2008-06-13 10:16 AM For clarity, if someone is in a position to make a rational choice to choose to die then they can, and do. It need be no more complicated. How?? Jump in front of a bus? Jump off a bridge? Drive your car off a cliff? Take an overdose? Slit your wrists? All very messy - undignified - and with the potential of horrendous after effects on the people left to pick up the pieces and clean up the mess. Especially if you cause active involvement by another party. How much better to go to a clinic, with your loved one and say goodbye in your own time, and take a measured dose. Vets provide this service - we are simply talking about equality of treatment - in a way? B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omidknight Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 My thoughts too twooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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