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Second Referendum


antony1969

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So 48% plus all the new first time voters wouldn’t have an option?

Got to be a STAY option.

If so then the stayers would be in the region of 54% and the leave vote would be split so the majority might be 54% : 23%.

Now that would be democratic.

Yes please

Snowie

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snowie - 2018-12-14 4:44 PM

 

So 48% plus all the new first time voters wouldn’t have an option?

Got to be a STAY option.

If so then the stayers would be in the region of 54% and the leave vote would be split so the majority might be 54% : 23%.

Now that would be democratic.

Yes please

Snowie

 

Of course the 48 percent would have an option , the same as those that won the first referendum , they wouldnt be excluded simply because they lost ... We have established already that leaving was the wish of the majority now we need to see on what terms ... Im up for that

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The idea of a second referendum or Peoples vote is to establish if the deal is what the people voted for or if not if they wish to remain instead. No deal should not be an option IMO. We keep being told "nobody wants" no deal, Parliament do not and will not accept no deal so the options should be Accept the deal or remain in the EU.

 

We do not really know what form of Brexit people voted for but something like 20-25% of Leave voters over the past two years for one example have said they would like to stay in the single market so from that we can assume a good percentage of them in no uncertain terms were seeking a hard Brexit. Many believe we should be in a customs union. Only a small minority want to leave with nothing or "crash out" it seems. See, its confusing because nobody knows what Brexiteers wanted. They could well have changed their minds or think the deal is so terrible and no deal is not what they wanted that they decide to remain.

 

Anyway, the government and Parliament cannot make up their minds so somebody is going to have to decide but remain will be an option if its a second vote.

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Barryd999 - 2018-12-14 6:17 PM

 

The idea of a second referendum or Peoples vote is to establish if the deal is what the people voted for or if not if they wish to remain instead. No deal should not be an option IMO. We keep being told "nobody wants" no deal, Parliament do not and will not accept no deal so the options should be Accept the deal or remain in the EU.

 

We do not really know what form of Brexit people voted for but something like 20-25% of Leave voters over the past two years for one example have said they would like to stay in the single market so from that we can assume a good percentage of them in no uncertain terms were seeking a hard Brexit. Many believe we should be in a customs union. Only a small minority want to leave with nothing or "crash out" it seems. See, its confusing because nobody knows what Brexiteers wanted. They could well have changed their minds or think the deal is so terrible and no deal is not what they wanted that they decide to remain.

 

Anyway, the government and Parliament cannot make up their minds so somebody is going to have to decide but remain will be an option if its a second vote.

 

Why would remain be an option after we've already decided to leave ??? Surely any vote should just be on the leaving terms

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Third post in on this thread raised interesting points.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/General-Chat/Chatterbox/It-all-hangs-on-whether-the-EU-believe-we-ll-Brexit-anyway-/50879/#M589302

 

I know it's a long read but a pity those now questioning don't take the time to read a bit more. Two and a half years ago was a long time and since then much more has become widely known and better understood. It quickly became obvious post referendum Brexit had zero exit plan and all those who'd championed it's cause ran off, hence the mess we now find ourselves in.

 

Nobody talked about NI, Gibraltar, or the effects on other BOT territories such as the Falklands etc (there are 14 in total). We are only just now being told of ETIAS requirements which will affect all who tour. We continue to lose vast amounts of industry as companies relocate to EU, primarily it seems Germany and Netherland. The list of damage just keeps growing daily.

 

We still have a third option to whats being trotted out by the politicians continually waffling about deal or no deal as though it's a Noel Edmonds game show....but what none will mention is we still have the option and legal right to remain.

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Bulletguy - 2018-12-14 6:54 PM

 

 

Third post in on this thread raised interesting points.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/General-Chat/Chatterbox/It-all-hangs-on-whether-the-EU-believe-we-ll-Brexit-anyway-/50879/#M589302

 

I know it's a long read but a pity those now questioning don't take the time to read a bit more. Two and a half years ago was a long time and since then much more has become widely known and better understood. It quickly became obvious post referendum Brexit had zero exit plan and all those who'd championed it's cause ran off, hence the mess we now find ourselves in.

 

Nobody talked about NI, Gibraltar, or the effects on other BOT territories such as the Falklands etc (there are 14 in total). We are only just now being told of ETIAS requirements which will affect all who tour. We continue to lose vast amounts of industry as companies relocate to EU, primarily it seems Germany and Netherland. The list of damage just keeps growing daily.

 

We still have a third option to whats being trotted out by the politicians continually waffling about deal or no deal as though it's a Noel Edmonds game show....but what none will mention is we still have the option and legal right to remain.

 

Really just a quick search smashes your silly "Nobody talked about" rubbish ... Youve not mentioned in your post the anti-EU resentment that has grown through many parts of the EU since our referendum , cant think why

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antony1969 - 2018-12-14 7:03 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-12-14 6:54 PM

 

 

Third post in on this thread raised interesting points.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/General-Chat/Chatterbox/It-all-hangs-on-whether-the-EU-believe-we-ll-Brexit-anyway-/50879/#M589302

 

I know it's a long read but a pity those now questioning don't take the time to read a bit more. Two and a half years ago was a long time and since then much more has become widely known and better understood. It quickly became obvious post referendum Brexit had zero exit plan and all those who'd championed it's cause ran off, hence the mess we now find ourselves in.

 

Nobody talked about NI, Gibraltar, or the effects on other BOT territories such as the Falklands etc (there are 14 in total). We are only just now being told of ETIAS requirements which will affect all who tour. We continue to lose vast amounts of industry as companies relocate to EU, primarily it seems Germany and Netherland. The list of damage just keeps growing daily.

 

We still have a third option to whats being trotted out by the politicians continually waffling about deal or no deal as though it's a Noel Edmonds game show....but what none will mention is we still have the option and legal right to remain.

 

Really just a quick search smashes your silly "Nobody talked about" rubbish ... Youve not mentioned in your post the anti-EU resentment that has grown through many parts of the EU since our referendum , cant think why

So as you found from 'just a quick search', you won't have any problem posting up whatever you found to dismiss it as 'rubbish', will you?

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Bulletguy - 2018-12-14 7:20 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-12-14 7:03 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-12-14 6:54 PM

 

 

Third post in on this thread raised interesting points.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/General-Chat/Chatterbox/It-all-hangs-on-whether-the-EU-believe-we-ll-Brexit-anyway-/50879/#M589302

 

I know it's a long read but a pity those now questioning don't take the time to read a bit more. Two and a half years ago was a long time and since then much more has become widely known and better understood. It quickly became obvious post referendum Brexit had zero exit plan and all those who'd championed it's cause ran off, hence the mess we now find ourselves in.

 

Nobody talked about NI, Gibraltar, or the effects on other BOT territories such as the Falklands etc (there are 14 in total). We are only just now being told of ETIAS requirements which will affect all who tour. We continue to lose vast amounts of industry as companies relocate to EU, primarily it seems Germany and Netherland. The list of damage just keeps growing daily.

 

We still have a third option to whats being trotted out by the politicians continually waffling about deal or no deal as though it's a Noel Edmonds game show....but what none will mention is we still have the option and legal right to remain.

 

Really just a quick search smashes your silly "Nobody talked about" rubbish ... Youve not mentioned in your post the anti-EU resentment that has grown through many parts of the EU since our referendum , cant think why

So as you found from 'just a quick search', you won't have any problem posting up whatever you found to dismiss it as 'rubbish', will you?

 

I dont have to search for what or why it was rubbish ... Your claim was rubbish ... You said and I quote "Nobody talked about NI , Gibraltar or the effects on other BOT territories such as the Falklands" ... Well just a very quick search shows they did so your claim therefore is rubbish ... Utter rubbish actually

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antony1969 - 2018-12-14 7:40 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-12-14 7:20 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-12-14 7:03 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-12-14 6:54 PM

 

 

Third post in on this thread raised interesting points.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/General-Chat/Chatterbox/It-all-hangs-on-whether-the-EU-believe-we-ll-Brexit-anyway-/50879/#M589302

 

I know it's a long read but a pity those now questioning don't take the time to read a bit more. Two and a half years ago was a long time and since then much more has become widely known and better understood. It quickly became obvious post referendum Brexit had zero exit plan and all those who'd championed it's cause ran off, hence the mess we now find ourselves in.

 

Nobody talked about NI, Gibraltar, or the effects on other BOT territories such as the Falklands etc (there are 14 in total). We are only just now being told of ETIAS requirements which will affect all who tour. We continue to lose vast amounts of industry as companies relocate to EU, primarily it seems Germany and Netherland. The list of damage just keeps growing daily.

 

We still have a third option to whats being trotted out by the politicians continually waffling about deal or no deal as though it's a Noel Edmonds game show....but what none will mention is we still have the option and legal right to remain.

 

Really just a quick search smashes your silly "Nobody talked about" rubbish ... Youve not mentioned in your post the anti-EU resentment that has grown through many parts of the EU since our referendum , cant think why

So as you found from 'just a quick search', you won't have any problem posting up whatever you found to dismiss it as 'rubbish', will you?

 

I dont have to search for what or why it was rubbish ... Your claim was rubbish ... You said and I quote "Nobody talked about NI , Gibraltar or the effects on other BOT territories such as the Falklands" ... Well just a very quick search shows they did so your claim therefore is rubbish ... Utter rubbish actually

That's twice now you've claimed 'just a very quick search' would disprove what i said yet still you can't substantiate your claim. Saying 'you don't have to' is a lame excuse showing you didn't know so just made something up like you usually do. This is exactly why your posts and views lose all credibility because you never back up with substantial facts.

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antony1969 - 2018-12-14 6:48 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-12-14 6:17 PM

 

The idea of a second referendum or Peoples vote is to establish if the deal is what the people voted for or if not if they wish to remain instead. No deal should not be an option IMO. We keep being told "nobody wants" no deal, Parliament do not and will not accept no deal so the options should be Accept the deal or remain in the EU.

 

We do not really know what form of Brexit people voted for but something like 20-25% of Leave voters over the past two years for one example have said they would like to stay in the single market so from that we can assume a good percentage of them in no uncertain terms were seeking a hard Brexit. Many believe we should be in a customs union. Only a small minority want to leave with nothing or "crash out" it seems. See, its confusing because nobody knows what Brexiteers wanted. They could well have changed their minds or think the deal is so terrible and no deal is not what they wanted that they decide to remain.

 

Anyway, the government and Parliament cannot make up their minds so somebody is going to have to decide but remain will be an option if its a second vote.

 

Why would remain be an option after we've already decided to leave ??? Surely any vote should just be on the leaving terms

 

Because Brexit is a disaster. Nobody voted for no deal and the deal thats available is rubbish. As I said the public deserve the chance to ratify the deal (not no deal) which was all we argued for over the last two and a half years. To give the people a final (and it would be final) chance to make sure what is on offer is what they want. As I said many may prefer to remain rather than accept this crappy deal.

 

I suspect if that is what happens remain will win as the deal pleases nobody. Many Brexiteers may reluctantly decide albeit extremely reluctantly that they would rather stay than accept a vassal state deal which is harder to get out of than actually leaving is in the first place. Maybe they could include a clause to have another referendum in say five years time. We could learn from the mistakes of this one then and actually declare it as a two stage referendum which is what it always should have been. Initial vote then a final vote once we know what the deal is. When you think about it, it is of course the most logical thing to do. How many people would buy a motorhome just from a picture on Ebay without seeing it first?

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Bulletguy - 2018-12-14 8:24 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-12-14 7:40 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-12-14 7:20 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-12-14 7:03 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-12-14 6:54 PM

 

 

Third post in on this thread raised interesting points.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/General-Chat/Chatterbox/It-all-hangs-on-whether-the-EU-believe-we-ll-Brexit-anyway-/50879/#M589302

 

I know it's a long read but a pity those now questioning don't take the time to read a bit more. Two and a half years ago was a long time and since then much more has become widely known and better understood. It quickly became obvious post referendum Brexit had zero exit plan and all those who'd championed it's cause ran off, hence the mess we now find ourselves in.

 

Nobody talked about NI, Gibraltar, or the effects on other BOT territories such as the Falklands etc (there are 14 in total). We are only just now being told of ETIAS requirements which will affect all who tour. We continue to lose vast amounts of industry as companies relocate to EU, primarily it seems Germany and Netherland. The list of damage just keeps growing daily.

 

We still have a third option to whats being trotted out by the politicians continually waffling about deal or no deal as though it's a Noel Edmonds game show....but what none will mention is we still have the option and legal right to remain.

 

Really just a quick search smashes your silly "Nobody talked about" rubbish ... Youve not mentioned in your post the anti-EU resentment that has grown through many parts of the EU since our referendum , cant think why

So as you found from 'just a quick search', you won't have any problem posting up whatever you found to dismiss it as 'rubbish', will you?

 

I dont have to search for what or why it was rubbish ... Your claim was rubbish ... You said and I quote "Nobody talked about NI , Gibraltar or the effects on other BOT territories such as the Falklands" ... Well just a very quick search shows they did so your claim therefore is rubbish ... Utter rubbish actually

That's twice now you've claimed 'just a very quick search' would disprove what i said yet still you can't substantiate your claim. Saying 'you don't have to' is a lame excuse showing you didn't know so just made something up like you usually do. This is exactly why your posts and views lose all credibility because you never back up with substantial facts.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/09/leaving-the-eu-would-be-disastrous-for-the-falklands-gibraltar-a/

Silly me forgot to put the link in

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