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Sir Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
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userpelmetman
Posted: 18 March 2019 4:29 PM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-03-18 4:15 PM

It is a border, so shared responsibility. It is true we can do as we please on our side, and could even do as you say and leave our side open. However, that would mean anyone and anything the Irish chose to let out of Ireland would be free to enter the UK.


Giggle ......

Kinda shot yourself in the foot there brian ........

If the British army with watch towers couldn't stop bombs and weapons from entering NI and the UK......WHY do you and the EU think a customs post will? .......



userBrian Kirby
Posted: 18 March 2019 5:55 PM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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pelmetman - 2019-03-18 4:29 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-03-18 4:15 PM
It is a border, so shared responsibility. It is true we can do as we please on our side, and could even do as you say and leave our side open. However, that would mean anyone and anything the Irish chose to let out of Ireland would be free to enter the UK.

Giggle ......
Kinda shot yourself in the foot there brian ........
If the British army with watch towers couldn't stop bombs and weapons from entering NI and the UK......WHY do you and the EU think a customs post will? .......

I don't. In fact, I'm quite convinced the opposite is true. I don't even think the necessary (approximately ) 270 customs posts would, let alone (giggle) one.

You should have read the whole post, and not just the above paragraph, because then you would have the full picture. It was 747 who was saying we could do as we "damn well choose" over the border after we've left the EU. I am arguing that we can't.

I am in fact arguing, as I have for some time past, that the combination of the Belfast Agreement (which says there will be no border installations), the Common Travel Area agreements, and the EU requirement for a controlled border with third countries, in combination mean that legally, the UK can't leave the EU unless Ireland also leaves, or unless the UK accepts the Single Market, the Customs Union, and the existing free movement requirements (so negating any need for customs or people checks at the Irish border). In other words, BRINO. The so called backstop for ever. Why do you Brexiters think it is there? For decoration?

You do realise that under the existing agreements, Britain and Ireland have between them what amounts to a mini-Schengen area comprising just two states. All that was negotiated while both Britain and Ireland were both members of the EU. If Britain leaves, the terms of those agreements become as far as I can see, irreconcilable, and it is then that the bombs and weapons become a real risk.

I assume you noticed that the recent letter bombs sent to London addresses have been claimed by the New IRA, and that notices have been erected saying "we're back"? They are just serving notice of what is to follow if we try to control that border, and that they aren't buying the child-like line that if we leave it to the EU/Ireland to close it, they won't blame the UK.
userpelmetman
Posted: 18 March 2019 7:00 PM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-03-18 5:55 PM

I assume you noticed that the recent letter bombs sent to London addresses have been claimed by the New IRA, and that notices have been erected saying "we're back"? They are just serving notice of what is to follow if we try to control that border, and that they aren't buying the child-like line that if we leave it to the EU/Ireland to close it, they won't blame the UK.


Yeah so what? ..........Best they join the queue behind the other nut jobs shouting Allahu Ackbar ......

But there again you Remoaner surrender Monkeys have never had a lot of back bone have you? ........



user747
Posted: 18 March 2019 7:50 PM
Subject: RE: Sir Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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If we do not close the Irish Border but the Irish do (as told to by Brussels), will the New IRA bomb Dublin in retaliation?

Oh, and by the bye. The Irish PM comes across as a staunch European Federalist and opposes Brexit but he seems to be suffering from Macronitis. All is not well in the Emerald Isle vis a vis immigration. The Irish elite have a nice little earner going over there. They buy up large Hotels cheaply and fill them full of immigrants. Sometimes the numbers are larger than the local population in rural areas and the people are not happy, resentment is growing. Meanwhile, the rich minority are raking in a lot of money with their scam err I mean scheme.
userpelmetman
Posted: 18 March 2019 8:01 PM
Subject: RE: Sir Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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747 - 2019-03-18 7:50 PM

If we do not close the Irish Border but the Irish do (as told to by Brussels), will the New IRA bomb Dublin in retaliation?

Oh, and by the bye. The Irish PM comes across as a staunch European Federalist and opposes Brexit but he seems to be suffering from Macronitis. All is not well in the Emerald Isle vis a vis immigration. The Irish elite have a nice little earner going over there. They buy up large Hotels cheaply and fill them full of immigrants. Sometimes the numbers are larger than the local population in rural areas and the people are not happy, resentment is growing. Meanwhile, the rich minority are raking in a lot of money with their scam err I mean scheme.


Yeah.....I saw a documentary some while back where they where trying to put a positive spin on it .......



userBrian Kirby
Posted: 18 March 2019 8:57 PM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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pelmetman - 2019-03-18 7:00 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-03-18 5:55 PM
I assume you noticed that the recent letter bombs sent to London addresses have been claimed by the New IRA, and that notices have been erected saying "we're back"? They are just serving notice of what is to follow if we try to control that border, and that they aren't buying the child-like line that if we leave it to the EU/Ireland to close it, they won't blame the UK.

Yeah so what? ..........Best they join the queue behind the other nut jobs shouting Allahu Ackbar ......
But there again you Remoaner surrender Monkeys have never had a lot of back bone have you? ........

So you now want another UK civil war to round off your Brexit celebrations? You'll undertake to come back from Spain to bury the dead, and console the bereaved, will you? Just (as you so love saying) askin'?

This isn't about courage in the face of adversity, it is about common sense and reality.
userpelmetman
Posted: 18 March 2019 9:04 PM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-03-18 8:57 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-18 7:00 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-03-18 5:55 PM
I assume you noticed that the recent letter bombs sent to London addresses have been claimed by the New IRA, and that notices have been erected saying "we're back"? They are just serving notice of what is to follow if we try to control that border, and that they aren't buying the child-like line that if we leave it to the EU/Ireland to close it, they won't blame the UK.

Yeah so what? ..........Best they join the queue behind the other nut jobs shouting Allahu Ackbar ......
But there again you Remoaner surrender Monkeys have never had a lot of back bone have you? ........

So you now want another UK civil war to round off your Brexit celebrations? You'll undertake to come back from Spain to bury the dead, and console the bereaved, will you? Just (as you so love saying) askin'?

This isn't about courage in the face of adversity, it is about common sense and reality.


You really have become a pathetic scaremonger Brian ........

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 18 March 2019 9:04 PM
Subject: RE: Sir Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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747 - 2019-03-18 7:50 PM

1 If we do not close the Irish Border but the Irish do (as told to by Brussels), will the New IRA bomb Dublin in retaliation?

2 Oh, and by the bye. The Irish PM comes across as a staunch European Federalist and opposes Brexit but he seems to be suffering from Macronitis. All is not well in the Emerald Isle vis a vis immigration. The Irish elite have a nice little earner going over there. They buy up large Hotels cheaply and fill them full of immigrants. Sometimes the numbers are larger than the local population in rural areas and the people are not happy, resentment is growing. Meanwhile, the rich minority are raking in a lot of money with their scam err I mean scheme.

1 What do you think? Which country will be identified as the prime cause of the border closure: the UK, or Ireland. Whose actions will have put that closure in train?

2 Nasty, but I don't see how that bears upon the border issue. There is always someone who will make money from someone else's adversity. Sadly, it happens around the world. Why should Ireland be exempt? It is no excuse for what those in Ireland are doing, but folk in the UK do it as well. We are all the same mix under the skin.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 18 March 2019 9:08 PM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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pelmetman - 2019-03-18 9:04 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-03-18 8:57 PM
pelmetman - 2019-03-18 7:00 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-03-18 5:55 PM
I assume you noticed that the recent letter bombs sent to London addresses have been claimed by the New IRA, and that notices have been erected saying "we're back"? They are just serving notice of what is to follow if we try to control that border, and that they aren't buying the child-like line that if we leave it to the EU/Ireland to close it, they won't blame the UK.

Yeah so what? ..........Best they join the queue behind the other nut jobs shouting Allahu Ackbar ......
But there again you Remoaner surrender Monkeys have never had a lot of back bone have you? ........

So you now want another UK civil war to round off your Brexit celebrations? You'll undertake to come back from Spain to bury the dead, and console the bereaved, will you? Just (as you so love saying) askin'?
This isn't about courage in the face of adversity, it is about common sense and reality.

You really have become a pathetic scaremonger Brian ........

So what's you solution? Stick your head in the sand, so that you can't see the obvious? Is that the mark of courage, or stupidity?
userpelmetman
Posted: 18 March 2019 9:15 PM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


Walks with the gods

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Brian Kirby - 2019-03-18 9:08 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-18 9:04 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-03-18 8:57 PM
pelmetman - 2019-03-18 7:00 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-03-18 5:55 PM
I assume you noticed that the recent letter bombs sent to London addresses have been claimed by the New IRA, and that notices have been erected saying "we're back"? They are just serving notice of what is to follow if we try to control that border, and that they aren't buying the child-like line that if we leave it to the EU/Ireland to close it, they won't blame the UK.

Yeah so what? ..........Best they join the queue behind the other nut jobs shouting Allahu Ackbar ......
But there again you Remoaner surrender Monkeys have never had a lot of back bone have you? ........

So you now want another UK civil war to round off your Brexit celebrations? You'll undertake to come back from Spain to bury the dead, and console the bereaved, will you? Just (as you so love saying) askin'?
This isn't about courage in the face of adversity, it is about common sense and reality.

You really have become a pathetic scaremonger Brian ........

So what's you solution? Stick your head in the sand, so that you can't see the obvious? Is that the mark of courage, or stupidity?


Did the UK collapse after 2 world wars?........

Did the UK collapse when we were kicked out of the ERM without warning?.......

Did the UK collapse after numerous recessions?.......

Nope ..........

Best lie down in a darkened room in 11 days time Brian .......

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 18 March 2019 9:49 PM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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pelmetman - 2019-03-18 9:15 PM
1 Did the UK collapse after 2 world wars?........
2 Did the UK collapse when we were kicked out of the ERM without warning?.......
3 Did the UK collapse after numerous recessions?.......
Nope .................

1 Not quite, but without US assistance under the Marshall Plan it well may have done.
2 No. However, it was not kicked out, it withdrew after having entered at an unsustainable exchange rate and then had its error made plain by the currency markets. We were on the brink of recession, from the cost of trying to prevent a run on the pound. Guess which party was in charge of that little UK fiasco, trying to do a fur coat and no knickers act?
3 No, do you advocate continuous recession as the best form of economic management? What is your point?
user747
Posted: 18 March 2019 11:47 PM
Subject: RE: Sir Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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I thought the Marshall Plan funded European mainland countries and not the UK directly?

The US certainly did us no favours regarding what we owed them financially, we just paid the debt off a few years ago.
userBulletguy
Posted: 19 March 2019 1:08 AM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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747 - 2019-03-18 11:47 PM

I thought the Marshall Plan funded European mainland countries and not the UK directly?

The US certainly did us no favours regarding what we owed them financially, we just paid the debt off a few years ago.

UK got the largest share from the Marshall Plan aid......more than any other European country, but successive governments squandered billions on dreams of being a global power.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml

Edited by Bulletguy 2019-03-19 1:09 AM
userpelmetman
Posted: 19 March 2019 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-03-19 1:08 AM

747 - 2019-03-18 11:47 PM

I thought the Marshall Plan funded European mainland countries and not the UK directly?

The US certainly did us no favours regarding what we owed them financially, we just paid the debt off a few years ago.

UK got the largest share from the Marshall Plan aid......more than any other European country, but successive governments squandered billions on dreams of being a global power.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml


From your link ..........

"The truth is that the post-war ***Labour*** Government, advised by its resident economic pundits, freely chose NOT to make industrial modernisation the central theme in her use of Marshall Aid."

...........

Thanks for highlighting yet another example of LABOURS incompetence ......

userpelmetman
Posted: 19 March 2019 8:57 AM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-03-18 9:49 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-18 9:15 PM
1 Did the UK collapse after 2 world wars?........
2 Did the UK collapse when we were kicked out of the ERM without warning?.......
3 Did the UK collapse after numerous recessions?.......
Nope .................

1 Not quite, but without US assistance under the Marshall Plan it well may have done.
2 No. However, it was not kicked out, it withdrew after having entered at an unsustainable exchange rate and then had its error made plain by the currency markets. We were on the brink of recession, from the cost of trying to prevent a run on the pound. Guess which party was in charge of that little UK fiasco, trying to do a fur coat and no knickers act?
3 No, do you advocate continuous recession as the best form of economic management? What is your point?


1.......As Bullets link explains .........It was wasted by Labour, even so the UK did not collapse ......

2.......We had to withdraw because of the actions of your Remoaner Hero Sorearse .........Although it has since proved to have worked in our favour as the UK can control it's own interest rates ........

3.......I thought Labours Brown had cured Boom & Bust? ........But my point is that the UK is doing great in spite of Brexit ........and history shows that if the UK really wants to commit financial suicide again....Vote Labour ........

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 19 March 2019 10:42 AM
Subject: RE: Sir Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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747 - 2019-03-18 11:47 PM
I thought the Marshall Plan funded European mainland countries and not the UK directly?
The US certainly did us no favours regarding what we owed them financially, we just paid the debt off a few years ago.

So did I until a few years back. In fact, the UK received more than any other country, and spent most of it trying to look as though the war hadn't affected out economy. The truth was that we were flat broke, and only American money kept us afloat.
Not sure why we should expect the UK to do us favours (didn't enough Americans die in the two world wars to earn a bit of respect?), but in fact, and despite our apparent ingratitude, they did.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 19 March 2019 11:19 AM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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pelmetman - 2019-03-19 8:57 AM
Brian Kirby - 2019-03-18 9:49 PM
pelmetman - 2019-03-18 9:15 PM
1 Did the UK collapse after 2 world wars?........
2 Did the UK collapse when we were kicked out of the ERM without warning?.......
3 Did the UK collapse after numerous recessions?.......
Nope .................

1 Not quite, but without US assistance under the Marshall Plan it well may have done.
2 No. However, it was not kicked out, it withdrew after having entered at an unsustainable exchange rate and then had its error made plain by the currency markets. We were on the brink of recession, from the cost of trying to prevent a run on the pound. Guess which party was in charge of that little UK fiasco, trying to do a fur coat and no knickers act?
3 No, do you advocate continuous recession as the best form of economic management? What is your point?

1.......As Bullets link explains .........It was wasted by Labour, even so the UK did not collapse ......
2.......We had to withdraw because of the actions of your Remoaner Hero Sorearse .........Although it has since proved to have worked in our favour as the UK can control it's own interest rates ........
3.......I thought Labours Brown had cured Boom & Bust? ........But my point is that the UK is doing great in spite of Brexit ........and history shows that if the UK really wants to commit financial suicide again....Vote Labour ........

Doesn't stack up though, does it?
1 Yes the Marshall Aid was largely wasted by Britain ding its fur coat and no knickers act. In short, vanity. So no, the UK did not collapse, but its economy had collapsed, and it was only shored up by that American money. There is a considerable difference between collapse of a country, and collapse of a countries economy?
2 Yes Soros (but why do you see him as a "remainer" hero - he's no hero of mine?) , along with many others, successfully bet against Sterling. However, the underlying cause of the run on the pound was not Soros, it was that the UK had joined the ERM at an unrealistically high exchange rate. Another example of our fur coat and no knickers desire to keep up appearances. Again, vanity. Again, the UK did not collapse, but our gold reserves did. Same difference again.
3 UK is not doing well despite Brexit. We have not yet Brexited, and the true impact will not be apparent until Brexit is a) manifest and b) 5 to 10 years have passed. However, the fear of the economic impact of Brexit was recorded by the international currency markets within hours of the referendum result. Just as over the ERM, the traders could see whether the next developments would be positive, or negative. In both cases their view was negative, so they acted accordingly.

Suicide is terminal. There is no recovery from suicide. I assume that would equate, in your book of hyperbole, to collapse of the UK?

Funny, isn't it, that the UK has survived both Labour and Conservative government attempts to kill it off. You really need to get out of your party political bunker and look around you.

To (mis)quote Heseltine's 1976 speech "A one-legged army limping away from the storm they have created. Right, right, right, right, right". Boot on other foot (no not Michael's), same outcome. So with Brexit. You political extremists are doomed to fail, and repeat the mistakes of the past, because you unquestioningly believe your own myths.
userpelmetman
Posted: 19 March 2019 11:47 AM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


Walks with the gods

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Brian Kirby - 2019-03-19 11:19 AM

pelmetman - 2019-03-19 8:57 AM
Brian Kirby - 2019-03-18 9:49 PM
pelmetman - 2019-03-18 9:15 PM
1 Did the UK collapse after 2 world wars?........
2 Did the UK collapse when we were kicked out of the ERM without warning?.......
3 Did the UK collapse after numerous recessions?.......
Nope .................

1 Not quite, but without US assistance under the Marshall Plan it well may have done.
2 No. However, it was not kicked out, it withdrew after having entered at an unsustainable exchange rate and then had its error made plain by the currency markets. We were on the brink of recession, from the cost of trying to prevent a run on the pound. Guess which party was in charge of that little UK fiasco, trying to do a fur coat and no knickers act?
3 No, do you advocate continuous recession as the best form of economic management? What is your point?

1.......As Bullets link explains .........It was wasted by Labour, even so the UK did not collapse ......
2.......We had to withdraw because of the actions of your Remoaner Hero Sorearse .........Although it has since proved to have worked in our favour as the UK can control it's own interest rates ........
3.......I thought Labours Brown had cured Boom & Bust? ........But my point is that the UK is doing great in spite of Brexit ........and history shows that if the UK really wants to commit financial suicide again....Vote Labour ........

Doesn't stack up though, does it?
1 Yes the Marshall Aid was largely wasted by Britain ding its fur coat and no knickers act. In short, vanity. So no, the UK did not collapse, but its economy had collapsed, and it was only shored up by that American money. There is a considerable difference between collapse of a country, and collapse of a countries economy?
2 Yes Soros (but why do you see him as a "remainer" hero - he's no hero of mine?) , along with many others, successfully bet against Sterling. However, the underlying cause of the run on the pound was not Soros, it was that the UK had joined the ERM at an unrealistically high exchange rate. Another example of our fur coat and no knickers desire to keep up appearances. Again, vanity. Again, the UK did not collapse, but our gold reserves did. Same difference again.
3 UK is not doing well despite Brexit. We have not yet Brexited, and the true impact will not be apparent until Brexit is a) manifest and b) 5 to 10 years have passed. However, the fear of the economic impact of Brexit was recorded by the international currency markets within hours of the referendum result. Just as over the ERM, the traders could see whether the next developments would be positive, or negative. In both cases their view was negative, so they acted accordingly.

Suicide is terminal. There is no recovery from suicide. I assume that would equate, in your book of hyperbole, to collapse of the UK?

Funny, isn't it, that the UK has survived both Labour and Conservative government attempts to kill it off. You really need to get out of your party political bunker and look around you.

To (mis)quote Heseltine's 1976 speech "A one-legged army limping away from the storm they have created. Right, right, right, right, right". Boot on other foot (no not Michael's), same outcome. So with Brexit. You political extremists are doomed to fail, and repeat the mistakes of the past, because you unquestioningly believe your own myths.


It's your Remoaner "Experts" who have been shown to be the spreader of false myths Brian .........

But you're so blinkered you keep on believing them ............

userBulletguy
Posted: 19 March 2019 3:07 PM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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pelmetman - 2019-03-19 8:47 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-19 1:08 AM

747 - 2019-03-18 11:47 PM

I thought the Marshall Plan funded European mainland countries and not the UK directly?

The US certainly did us no favours regarding what we owed them financially, we just paid the debt off a few years ago.

UK got the largest share from the Marshall Plan aid......more than any other European country, but successive governments squandered billions on dreams of being a global power.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml


From your link ..........

"The truth is that the post-war ***Labour*** Government, advised by its resident economic pundits, freely chose NOT to make industrial modernisation the central theme in her use of Marshall Aid."

...........

Thanks for highlighting yet another example of LABOURS incompetence ......

Well i'm amazed you actually opened the link......quite an impressive achievement. Pity you only managed the first para and never read further though there had already been a whacking big clue right at the top which said, "Successive governments squandered billions of Marshall Plan Aid to support British world power pretensions, and so jeopardised the economic future of Britain."

You do understand what 'successive' means don't you? Do you also understand the use of singular and plural.....for example when indicating more than one government we would place an 's' to the end to make it governmentS....just like in the linked article. That's just very basic English grammar which most kids have learned by junior school grade and should have told you immediately the article was not referencing one, and only one government, but more than one.

Further down, where you never quite made it, iit went on to say;

It was this victor's psychology that deluded both Labour and Conservative politicians into believing that Britain - at the centre of the Commonwealth and the Sterling area - could have a future that was similar to her past. British politicians saw the United Kingdom as a first-class power in the same league as the United States. And certainly Britain looked in many ways like a global power, with more than two million men in fleets, garrisons and air squadrons sprawled across the world, from their bases at home to those in Japan.

Neither Labour or Conservative politicians come well out of the Marshal Aid spending and you have to accept incompetence as you call it was attributed to both......hence the use of the terms "successive" and "governmentS". Always good to get things in context so we have the full facts rather than your preferred political bias isn't it?
userpelmetman
Posted: 19 March 2019 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-03-19 3:07 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-19 8:47 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-19 1:08 AM

747 - 2019-03-18 11:47 PM

I thought the Marshall Plan funded European mainland countries and not the UK directly?

The US certainly did us no favours regarding what we owed them financially, we just paid the debt off a few years ago.

UK got the largest share from the Marshall Plan aid......more than any other European country, but successive governments squandered billions on dreams of being a global power.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml


From your link ..........

"The truth is that the post-war ***Labour*** Government, advised by its resident economic pundits, freely chose NOT to make industrial modernisation the central theme in her use of Marshall Aid."

...........

Thanks for highlighting yet another example of LABOURS incompetence ......

Well i'm amazed you actually opened the link......quite an impressive achievement. Pity you only managed the first para and never read further though there had already been a whacking big clue right at the top which said, "Successive governments squandered billions of Marshall Plan Aid to support British world power pretensions, and so jeopardised the economic future of Britain."

You do understand what 'successive' means don't you? Do you also understand the use of singular and plural.....for example when indicating more than one government we would place an 's' to the end to make it governmentS....just like in the linked article. That's just very basic English grammar which most kids have learned by junior school grade and should have told you immediately the article was not referencing one, and only one government, but more than one.

Further down, where you never quite made it, iit went on to say;

It was this victor's psychology that deluded both Labour and Conservative politicians into believing that Britain - at the centre of the Commonwealth and the Sterling area - could have a future that was similar to her past. British politicians saw the United Kingdom as a first-class power in the same league as the United States. And certainly Britain looked in many ways like a global power, with more than two million men in fleets, garrisons and air squadrons sprawled across the world, from their bases at home to those in Japan.

Neither Labour or Conservative politicians come well out of the Marshal Aid spending and you have to accept incompetence as you call it was attributed to both......hence the use of the terms "successive" and "governmentS". Always good to get things in context so we have the full facts rather than your preferred political bias isn't it?


Ooooh touched a nerve there didn't I? ........

userBulletguy
Posted: 19 March 2019 10:59 PM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 9216
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Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


pelmetman - 2019-03-19 9:26 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-19 3:07 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-19 8:47 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-19 1:08 AM

747 - 2019-03-18 11:47 PM

I thought the Marshall Plan funded European mainland countries and not the UK directly?

The US certainly did us no favours regarding what we owed them financially, we just paid the debt off a few years ago.

UK got the largest share from the Marshall Plan aid......more than any other European country, but successive governments squandered billions on dreams of being a global power.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml


From your link ..........

"The truth is that the post-war ***Labour*** Government, advised by its resident economic pundits, freely chose NOT to make industrial modernisation the central theme in her use of Marshall Aid."

...........

Thanks for highlighting yet another example of LABOURS incompetence ......

Well i'm amazed you actually opened the link......quite an impressive achievement. Pity you only managed the first para and never read further though there had already been a whacking big clue right at the top which said, "Successive governments squandered billions of Marshall Plan Aid to support British world power pretensions, and so jeopardised the economic future of Britain."

You do understand what 'successive' means don't you? Do you also understand the use of singular and plural.....for example when indicating more than one government we would place an 's' to the end to make it governmentS....just like in the linked article. That's just very basic English grammar which most kids have learned by junior school grade and should have told you immediately the article was not referencing one, and only one government, but more than one.

Further down, where you never quite made it, iit went on to say;

It was this victor's psychology that deluded both Labour and Conservative politicians into believing that Britain - at the centre of the Commonwealth and the Sterling area - could have a future that was similar to her past. British politicians saw the United Kingdom as a first-class power in the same league as the United States. And certainly Britain looked in many ways like a global power, with more than two million men in fleets, garrisons and air squadrons sprawled across the world, from their bases at home to those in Japan.

Neither Labour or Conservative politicians come well out of the Marshal Aid spending and you have to accept incompetence as you call it was attributed to both......hence the use of the terms "successive" and "governmentS". Always good to get things in context so we have the full facts rather than your preferred political bias isn't it?


Ooooh touched a nerve there didn't I? ........

No you simply made a fool of yourself (as usual) due to not reading through the article properly. Your nonsensical remark was easily dealt with as i already knew the history of the Marshall Aid Plan and the often perpetuated myth that European countries received more funding than poor little UK when the absolute opposite was the factual truth....just that we squandered it with delusions of self importance and lack of investment in industry where other countries used their share more responsibly.

US had a vested interest with its Marshall Plan in Europe, part of which was it's fear and loathing of Communism which became a fanatical obsession during years of batsh1t crazy McCarthyism. Though aid was initially offered which the US knew Russia would refuse, which they did, they set up their own "Marshall Plan" called the Molotov Plan so no Eastern bloc countries in Europe received Marshall Plan aid.

After the war Germany in particular had no delusions or time for feeling 'self important'. After all, they'd been beaten into submission......'we won, you lost' (hmm....now where have i heard that before?), so got on with the job of quietly rebuilding it's infrastructure and industry which had been pretty much razed to the ground. We carried on partying, making silly decisions over infrastructure and industries....our transport system being just one example where time warp UK was still running inefficient old steam trains and mechanical signalling well into the late 60's whilst countries like Germany and France had long gone electric.

Germanys strength and success is also due to it's 'Mittelstand' concept of business, medium and small, often family owned businesses which still today remain the backbone of the country. Wise investment from government and a willingness to work hard at rebuilding has meant the average German worker enjoys a higher standard of living than their UK counterpart.

This shows the amounts given to each country plus explains more history relevant to Germany.....so you probably won't read it.

https://tinyurl.com/y3zbu4on
userpelmetman
Posted: 20 March 2019 8:02 AM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24800
500050005000500020002000500100100100
Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Bulletguy - 2019-03-19 10:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-19 9:26 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-19 3:07 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-19 8:47 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-19 1:08 AM

747 - 2019-03-18 11:47 PM

I thought the Marshall Plan funded European mainland countries and not the UK directly?

The US certainly did us no favours regarding what we owed them financially, we just paid the debt off a few years ago.

UK got the largest share from the Marshall Plan aid......more than any other European country, but successive governments squandered billions on dreams of being a global power.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml


From your link ..........

"The truth is that the post-war ***Labour*** Government, advised by its resident economic pundits, freely chose NOT to make industrial modernisation the central theme in her use of Marshall Aid."

...........

Thanks for highlighting yet another example of LABOURS incompetence ......

Well i'm amazed you actually opened the link......quite an impressive achievement. Pity you only managed the first para and never read further though there had already been a whacking big clue right at the top which said, "Successive governments squandered billions of Marshall Plan Aid to support British world power pretensions, and so jeopardised the economic future of Britain."

You do understand what 'successive' means don't you? Do you also understand the use of singular and plural.....for example when indicating more than one government we would place an 's' to the end to make it governmentS....just like in the linked article. That's just very basic English grammar which most kids have learned by junior school grade and should have told you immediately the article was not referencing one, and only one government, but more than one.

Further down, where you never quite made it, iit went on to say;

It was this victor's psychology that deluded both Labour and Conservative politicians into believing that Britain - at the centre of the Commonwealth and the Sterling area - could have a future that was similar to her past. British politicians saw the United Kingdom as a first-class power in the same league as the United States. And certainly Britain looked in many ways like a global power, with more than two million men in fleets, garrisons and air squadrons sprawled across the world, from their bases at home to those in Japan.

Neither Labour or Conservative politicians come well out of the Marshal Aid spending and you have to accept incompetence as you call it was attributed to both......hence the use of the terms "successive" and "governmentS". Always good to get things in context so we have the full facts rather than your preferred political bias isn't it?


Ooooh touched a nerve there didn't I? ........

No you simply made a fool of yourself (as usual) due to not reading through the article properly. Your nonsensical remark was easily dealt with as i already knew the history of the Marshall Aid Plan and the often perpetuated myth that European countries received more funding than poor little UK when the absolute opposite was the factual truth....just that we squandered it with delusions of self importance and lack of investment in industry where other countries used their share more responsibly.

US had a vested interest with its Marshall Plan in Europe, part of which was it's fear and loathing of Communism which became a fanatical obsession during years of batsh1t crazy McCarthyism. Though aid was initially offered which the US knew Russia would refuse, which they did, they set up their own "Marshall Plan" called the Molotov Plan so no Eastern bloc countries in Europe received Marshall Plan aid.

After the war Germany in particular had no delusions or time for feeling 'self important'. After all, they'd been beaten into submission......'we won, you lost' (hmm....now where have i heard that before?), so got on with the job of quietly rebuilding it's infrastructure and industry which had been pretty much razed to the ground. We carried on partying, making silly decisions over infrastructure and industries....our transport system being just one example where time warp UK was still running inefficient old steam trains and mechanical signalling well into the late 60's whilst countries like Germany and France had long gone electric.

Germanys strength and success is also due to it's 'Mittelstand' concept of business, medium and small, often family owned businesses which still today remain the backbone of the country. Wise investment from government and a willingness to work hard at rebuilding has meant the average German worker enjoys a higher standard of living than their UK counterpart.

This shows the amounts given to each country plus explains more history relevant to Germany.....so you probably won't read it.

https://tinyurl.com/y3zbu4on


That's history ...........In 9 days time we'll be making history ........

userBulletguy
Posted: 20 March 2019 2:05 PM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 9216
500020002000100100
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


pelmetman - 2019-03-20 8:02 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-19 10:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-19 9:26 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-19 3:07 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-19 8:47 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-19 1:08 AM

747 - 2019-03-18 11:47 PM

I thought the Marshall Plan funded European mainland countries and not the UK directly?

The US certainly did us no favours regarding what we owed them financially, we just paid the debt off a few years ago.

UK got the largest share from the Marshall Plan aid......more than any other European country, but successive governments squandered billions on dreams of being a global power.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml


From your link ..........

"The truth is that the post-war ***Labour*** Government, advised by its resident economic pundits, freely chose NOT to make industrial modernisation the central theme in her use of Marshall Aid."

...........

Thanks for highlighting yet another example of LABOURS incompetence ......

Well i'm amazed you actually opened the link......quite an impressive achievement. Pity you only managed the first para and never read further though there had already been a whacking big clue right at the top which said, "Successive governments squandered billions of Marshall Plan Aid to support British world power pretensions, and so jeopardised the economic future of Britain."

You do understand what 'successive' means don't you? Do you also understand the use of singular and plural.....for example when indicating more than one government we would place an 's' to the end to make it governmentS....just like in the linked article. That's just very basic English grammar which most kids have learned by junior school grade and should have told you immediately the article was not referencing one, and only one government, but more than one.

Further down, where you never quite made it, iit went on to say;

It was this victor's psychology that deluded both Labour and Conservative politicians into believing that Britain - at the centre of the Commonwealth and the Sterling area - could have a future that was similar to her past. British politicians saw the United Kingdom as a first-class power in the same league as the United States. And certainly Britain looked in many ways like a global power, with more than two million men in fleets, garrisons and air squadrons sprawled across the world, from their bases at home to those in Japan.

Neither Labour or Conservative politicians come well out of the Marshal Aid spending and you have to accept incompetence as you call it was attributed to both......hence the use of the terms "successive" and "governmentS". Always good to get things in context so we have the full facts rather than your preferred political bias isn't it?


Ooooh touched a nerve there didn't I? ........

No you simply made a fool of yourself (as usual) due to not reading through the article properly. Your nonsensical remark was easily dealt with as i already knew the history of the Marshall Aid Plan and the often perpetuated myth that European countries received more funding than poor little UK when the absolute opposite was the factual truth....just that we squandered it with delusions of self importance and lack of investment in industry where other countries used their share more responsibly.

US had a vested interest with its Marshall Plan in Europe, part of which was it's fear and loathing of Communism which became a fanatical obsession during years of batsh1t crazy McCarthyism. Though aid was initially offered which the US knew Russia would refuse, which they did, they set up their own "Marshall Plan" called the Molotov Plan so no Eastern bloc countries in Europe received Marshall Plan aid.

After the war Germany in particular had no delusions or time for feeling 'self important'. After all, they'd been beaten into submission......'we won, you lost' (hmm....now where have i heard that before?), so got on with the job of quietly rebuilding it's infrastructure and industry which had been pretty much razed to the ground. We carried on partying, making silly decisions over infrastructure and industries....our transport system being just one example where time warp UK was still running inefficient old steam trains and mechanical signalling well into the late 60's whilst countries like Germany and France had long gone electric.

Germanys strength and success is also due to it's 'Mittelstand' concept of business, medium and small, often family owned businesses which still today remain the backbone of the country. Wise investment from government and a willingness to work hard at rebuilding has meant the average German worker enjoys a higher standard of living than their UK counterpart.

This shows the amounts given to each country plus explains more history relevant to Germany.....so you probably won't read it.

https://tinyurl.com/y3zbu4on


That's history ...........

Which you don't understand so go off bashing your keyboard making inane remarks.


In 9 days time we'll be making history ........

Destroying whats left of a country you've already made a mess of. Hardly anything to be proud of. You need to change your profile signature prediction......it's history.
userpelmetman
Posted: 20 March 2019 2:13 PM
Subject: RE: Jacob Rees Mogg Right Again
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24800
500050005000500020002000500100100100
Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Bulletguy - 2019-03-20 2:05 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-20 8:02 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-19 10:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-19 9:26 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-19 3:07 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-19 8:47 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-19 1:08 AM

747 - 2019-03-18 11:47 PM

I thought the Marshall Plan funded European mainland countries and not the UK directly?

The US certainly did us no favours regarding what we owed them financially, we just paid the debt off a few years ago.

UK got the largest share from the Marshall Plan aid......more than any other European country, but successive governments squandered billions on dreams of being a global power.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml


From your link ..........

"The truth is that the post-war ***Labour*** Government, advised by its resident economic pundits, freely chose NOT to make industrial modernisation the central theme in her use of Marshall Aid."

...........

Thanks for highlighting yet another example of LABOURS incompetence ......

Well i'm amazed you actually opened the link......quite an impressive achievement. Pity you only managed the first para and never read further though there had already been a whacking big clue right at the top which said, "Successive governments squandered billions of Marshall Plan Aid to support British world power pretensions, and so jeopardised the economic future of Britain."

You do understand what 'successive' means don't you? Do you also understand the use of singular and plural.....for example when indicating more than one government we would place an 's' to the end to make it governmentS....just like in the linked article. That's just very basic English grammar which most kids have learned by junior school grade and should have told you immediately the article was not referencing one, and only one government, but more than one.

Further down, where you never quite made it, iit went on to say;

It was this victor's psychology that deluded both Labour and Conservative politicians into believing that Britain - at the centre of the Commonwealth and the Sterling area - could have a future that was similar to her past. British politicians saw the United Kingdom as a first-class power in the same league as the United States. And certainly Britain looked in many ways like a global power, with more than two million men in fleets, garrisons and air squadrons sprawled across the world, from their bases at home to those in Japan.

Neither Labour or Conservative politicians come well out of the Marshal Aid spending and you have to accept incompetence as you call it was attributed to both......hence the use of the terms "successive" and "governmentS". Always good to get things in context so we have the full facts rather than your preferred political bias isn't it?


Ooooh touched a nerve there didn't I? ........

No you simply made a fool of yourself (as usual) due to not reading through the article properly. Your nonsensical remark was easily dealt with as i already knew the history of the Marshall Aid Plan and the often perpetuated myth that European countries received more funding than poor little UK when the absolute opposite was the factual truth....just that we squandered it with delusions of self importance and lack of investment in industry where other countries used their share more responsibly.

US had a vested interest with its Marshall Plan in Europe, part of which was it's fear and loathing of Communism which became a fanatical obsession during years of batsh1t crazy McCarthyism. Though aid was initially offered which the US knew Russia would refuse, which they did, they set up their own "Marshall Plan" called the Molotov Plan so no Eastern bloc countries in Europe received Marshall Plan aid.

After the war Germany in particular had no delusions or time for feeling 'self important'. After all, they'd been beaten into submission......'we won, you lost' (hmm....now where have i heard that before?), so got on with the job of quietly rebuilding it's infrastructure and industry which had been pretty much razed to the ground. We carried on partying, making silly decisions over infrastructure and industries....our transport system being just one example where time warp UK was still running inefficient old steam trains and mechanical signalling well into the late 60's whilst countries like Germany and France had long gone electric.

Germanys strength and success is also due to it's 'Mittelstand' concept of business, medium and small, often family owned businesses which still today remain the backbone of the country. Wise investment from government and a willingness to work hard at rebuilding has meant the average German worker enjoys a higher standard of living than their UK counterpart.

This shows the amounts given to each country plus explains more history relevant to Germany.....so you probably won't read it.

https://tinyurl.com/y3zbu4on


That's history ...........

Which you don't understand so go off bashing your keyboard making inane remarks.


In 9 days time we'll be making history ........

Destroying whats left of a country you've already made a mess of. Hardly anything to be proud of. You need to change your profile signature prediction......it's history.


Keep up Bullet .......

The UK has climbed the world happiness table since we voted to leave the EU ........

So I guess 52% of us being happy must be an improvement ........

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