howie Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Acts of piracy are still rife in some parts of the world but the taking of the 'Sirius Star', a 1,000ft oil tanker carrying £75 million pounds worth of oil, takes this to a whole new level. What concerns me now is what happens next. Do you negotiate, or risk a environmental disaster if their demands are not met, which I presume is what will happen next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J9withdogs Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 It's very James Bond, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 Does have all the makings of Hollywood blockbuster Jan, but the reality is that there are almost 30 crew members who's lives are now on the line for real and I have little doubt they will be viewed as expendable if demands are not met. There is also the threat that oil will be discharged or that the ship may even be ran aground and softly softly might be the better option for the time being. Don't know what sort of security is employed for such circumstances, but taking a ship this size is difficult to comprehend and another 'lessons must be learned' by the look of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Personal view (which may be too extreme for others perhaps): Immediately that any such vessel is pirated, the military storm it. No negotiation. None. No pussy-footing around. All that paying ransoms is doing is fuelling the huge attraction of this form of localised terrorism. I accept that in adopting this policy, some innocent crew members may well die - killed by the pirates or by "friendly fire" by the rescuers. That is a short-term, horrible, but pragmatically necessary cost of actually having the military balls, internationally, to bring a halt to this activity. But it is the lack of such a policy, and the past payment of ransoms, that is exactly what has led to this latest piracy....the pirates see others hetting very rich, and getting away with this obscene crime, so copy it. It would not takle long for this problem to completely disappear if on every occasion from now the TV showed the dead pirates being carted away within a few hours.....word would get around VERY quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 See what you are getting at Bruce, but still think we should negotiate our way out of this one and deal with the pirates at a later date once that ship and crew are safe and secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Only vaguely heard this latest news but another ship has been hi-jacked in near proximity to the Sirius Star containing wheat, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Yes Patricia, according to the BBC news, see below, a Hong Kong cargo ship carrying Wheat was seized on Tuesday. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7735507.stm It sounds like there are others as well, is this the new Bermuda triangle? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagey Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 where is steven segal when you need him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 Or Bruce Willis, and no doubt the Hollywood version would once again see the world saved, but the reality is far more intriguing. What started as holding small fishing boats that were considered to be illegally fishing to ransom has now escalated to over £250,000,000 worth of ship and cargo now in the hands of these 'pirates', and starting to think they may just have bitten of more than they can chew with this one. The Arab owners shown on tv were definitely not amused, and while we may never know what sort of deal is about to be struck you can bet they are not going to simply pay up and let matters rest there. Security, and how a vessel this size could be seized on the high seas must also be a area of concern. When you think of how air traffic is now so strictly monitored then why bother hi-jacking a airliner when you could so easily sail a ship, complete with possible nuclear or chemical payload, direct into any of the major ports around the world with virtual impunity, something that will have to be addressed sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Bruce, whilst your "remedey" might seem "logical" to someone living in a basicaly law abiding country, in somalia life is valued much more cheaply, the rewards will be seen as worth the risk, I would guess there would need to be many pirates and innocent civilians killed before any effect where noticed, not a problem if you have no respect for human life, and of cause remember the US have left Somalia with their tails between their legs before, when they failed to realise this. Howie, been reading some Grissom? the monitoring of international shipping may be a bit more advanced than you think. p.s. my remedy would be to use convoys to hopefully stop the pirates on the sea, and some undercover/bribes to locate pirates in ports and "ensure" they don't leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I think one thing that is holding any authourities back from " action " is the fact ( so it is reported ) that up to now hostages have always been treated ' reasonably well ' (Although I think that the act of being taken hostage, is not what I would call 'being treated reasonably well ') :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Well a reply on question time opened my eyes, and I've just been 'having a look around'. It would appear that half the worlds fishing fleets have been 'rapeing' the somali waters destoying the lively hoods of local fishermen, the result? they have teamed up with the warlords to ferry pirates out to the foriegn ships, so along with sinking the pirate ships we need the warships to sink spannish/french/korean etc fishing boats, sometimes life is a bit more complicated than you at first might think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 Not sure what 'Grissom' is Colin but obviously these pirates have enough high tec knowledge of their own to track, board and take their selected targets. What does supprise me is the scale of piracy. Always heard of it going on, but thought it was always restricted to small inshore vessels and private yachts that were either robbed or held to ransom and a relatively small problem. It also transpires that 'inside' information and pirate crew members 'placed' on these ships contribute to the ease with which they are taken, and given the huge areas of ocean to be covered then resolving the problem in terms of protection is going to a lot harder than I first imagined. Last I heard was that a ransom of £6 million was being asked and doubt if we will hear much more with the money being paid and no more on the matter unless there,s a sudden turn of events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick H. Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 howie - 2008-11-18 11:51 AM Acts of piracy are still rife in some parts of the world but the taking of the 'Sirius Star', a 1,000ft oil tanker carrying £75 million pounds worth of oil, takes this to a whole new level. What concerns me now is what happens next. Do you negotiate, or risk a environmental disaster if their demands are not met, which I presume is what will happen next. Just dont drive your motorhome in that direction, Howie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick H. Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Three suggestions. a few high powered steam canons on the middle of the ship somewhere the pirates cant get to very quickly and as soon as the ship is aware of boarders fire them up. Secondly a high power electric cable around the perimeter of the ship, insulated from the ship but such a place anybody coming over the edge would find.Third shoot them all.sink the pirate ship and drive off.What to do with the hostage ones,difficult. Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Shoot them and 'drive' off !. Goes well with your avatar shipmate. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick H. Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 howie - 2008-11-21 1:14 PM Shoot them and 'drive' off !. Goes well with your avatar shipmate. 8-) We just Skin 'em and play on. What they deserve really, Howie,You cant negotiate with .......like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatterdog Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Lets not forget that there are quite a number of other ships that are also being held, which we knew nothing about until these people took a ship that was important to the west and our consumption of oil. All of the other ships didnt make headline news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Not much we can do at the moment but negotiate (latest demand is now £17 million), but once this is sorted out there must be a concerted effort from everyone involved to come up with a solution. Arming crews is all very well, but unless these are trained professionals its hardly fair to ask a working seaman to risk his life simply for doing a job of work. We seem to have the ability to drop a warhead on any target you can name worldwide and surely finding where these pirate ships are based or located is not beyond our capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Well I for one am absolutly discusted with how this has been allowed to get to this, Their has been millions paid out in last few years, the reason? greedy fishermen in the so called developed world have prayed on the local somali's such that now being a pirate is seen as a 'normal' job as the local fish stocks have reduced, and as it becomes 'normal' it has now escalated to passing ships of all types, it should have been 'nipped in the bud' early on, but no governments have turned a blind eye to how their fishing fleets have behaved, proboly because it has eased pressure on their own fish stocks. Somalia is a 'hell hole' that has been brushed under the carpet for too long, this is a country that needed sorting instead of invading Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Perhaps we should apply those standards to Somali parents who have to watch their children die of starvation or lack of hygene and medical treatment Colin. Doubt very much that they share out outrage when ships feeding the western economy are held to ransom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I think you may have completly misunderstood my post. I'm not having a go at (all) Somali's, but us at allowing a country to degenerate so far and then allowing our fishing fleets to take advantage of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Sorry about that Colin, and while in entire agreement with your comments on foreign fleets depleting Somali stocks I seem to have gone off on a different tangent altogether. We must all accept some responsibility for allowing a situation to develope where piracy has now become acceptable to Somali fishermen as the only alternative to not only making a living, but in many cases, ensuring that they and their families survive, and in looking at possible ways of dealing with this problem on that basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob b Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Perhaps the shipping companies should get together and fund a 'decoy' ship. A merchant ship carrying a heavily armed force on board. When the pirates approach, zap em !.......all perfectly straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Doubt if that would do much good Bob. Already have half the worlds navies patrolling the area without success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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