jumpstart Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Sky News: Sales of electric cars not growing fast enough to meet the government's climate targets - report. https://news.sky.com/story/sales-of-electric-cars-not-growing-fast-enough-to-meet-the-governments-climate-targets-report-12229099 Maybe Blue gas vehicles is the way to go..even Motorhomes can run on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 I can't see why anyone would want an electric car until there are far more charging places around the country. I see " filling up " in the future as a case of waiting for 40 minutes for a plug in point - followed by another 45 minutes waiting for your car to be charged up. Touring in the future sounds most un-appealing. In the future drivers will tell their children that " in the old days it only took 5 minutes to fill up in a petrol station " - and the kids won't believe them. :-( p.s. Another personal gripe is that most electric cars are planned to be ' automatics ' - whether you like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Sales of BEV's are only just starting to take off in any meaningful way. At one point at back end of last year VW where selling more BEV's than ICE's. The number of new models coming on the market is growing fast as manufacturers realise they need to catch up with the likes of Tesla and Chinese, but unfortunately they are still selling them as premium products, Hopefully the new cheap Tesla that's coming soon will change that. The technology is still changing and it's hopefully just a matter of time before V2G becomes the norm and instead of a vehicle spending 95% of it's time doing SFA, it works with your home. Just imagine in the future telling the kids "At one time you used to have to waste your time visiting petrol stations" The one fly in the ointment at moment is lack of a viable Motorhome for long distance travel and off grid, maybe that's a candidate for hydrogen, time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 Hydrogen could well be the way to go. Cheap efficient and non polluting and easily adaptable for Motorhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-02-27 4:38 PM Hydrogen could well be the way to go. Cheap efficient and non polluting and easily adaptable for Motorhomes. Safely stored, perhaps in the new fuel distributors planned in Trafalgar Square and Downing Street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Well they seem to have solved the Hydrogen storage problem as there are some Hydrogen refilling stations in London. A bit like LPG I suppose. Brian B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 colin - 2021-02-27 2:17 PM Just imagine in the future telling the kids "At one time you used to have to waste your time visiting petrol stations" . You'll be 'wasting your time ' waiting ( somewhere ) for the battery to charge instead, unless you are lucky enough to have a house where you can usually charge up overnight. I've not heard yet what the plan is for people who live in high rise flats. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 Blue is the new Green.... https://spacecoastdaily.com/2020/07/will-blue-gas-overthrow-tesla/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 mtravel - 2021-02-27 4:12 PM jumpstart - 2021-02-27 4:38 PM Hydrogen could well be the way to go. Cheap efficient and non polluting and easily adaptable for Motorhomes. Safely stored, perhaps in the new fuel distributors planned in Trafalgar Square and Downing Street. I’m sure the person in Trafalgar Sq. will turn a blind eye to it but Downing St has always been hot air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 malc d - 2021-02-27 4:50 PM colin - 2021-02-27 2:17 PM Just imagine in the future telling the kids "At one time you used to have to waste your time visiting petrol stations" . You'll be 'wasting your time ' waiting ( somewhere ) for the battery to charge instead, unless you are lucky enough to have a house where you can usually charge up overnight. I've not heard yet what the plan is for people who live in high rise flats. :-| There are solutions for all sorts of problems being rolled out right now, after all those flat dwellers have to park somewhere and on street charging is just one, will it work out better for 100% of people, maybe not, but then having to drive miles out of the way to visit a petrol station isn't ideal for me. I find it very amusing that for most of my life the big petrol companies and middle eastern countries where the 'bad guys' accused of fixing prices and stifling development, now their hold on us is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 malc d - 2021-02-27 4:50 PM colin - 2021-02-27 2:17 PM Just imagine in the future telling the kids "At one time you used to have to waste your time visiting petrol stations" . You'll be 'wasting your time ' waiting ( somewhere ) for the battery to charge instead, unless you are lucky enough to have a house where you can usually charge up overnight. I've not heard yet what the plan is for people who live in high rise flats. :-| Being Britain the answer to that will be "join some extension cables together". :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 We don't hear much about how long the batteries will last, or how much it will cost to replace them. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 malc d - 2021-02-27 5:54 PM We don't hear much about how long the batteries will last, or how much it will cost to replace them. :-| No idea what the life span is but they won't be cheap to replace. The overall cost of going electric isn't exactly cheap and what it really needs is production of a "peoples car", a vehicle affordable to all rather than the few. Vehicle costs have gone silly really.....a basic Fiesta starts at £16.640 which is absolutely bonkers. Regards charging problems, looks like this clever Saudi has come up with something special, and he has a patent in Germany on it already. https://gulfnews.com/world/gulf/saudi/saudi-inventor-solves-problem-of-charging-electric-cars-1.76418729 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 There's plenty of info on batteries, how long they last, and how much they cost to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 It is a simple matter of economics and vfm. Given the resources used to make the thing how can it be ecological - much more political than ecological as I see it? Ironically, our mainly local use and low mileage would now suit an electric car very well with it's limited range and iffy charging situation away from home. However the cost per mile savings is very small when offset against the higher list prices and higher depreciation rates of EVs and both of these woild need to improve considerably to make it economiically viable for us. Why would I want to spend my money buying myself less convenience and higher overall costs - a car is expensive enough as it is without adding to the costs just to suit the politicians and car makers - mainly foreign imports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 malc d - 2021-02-27 5:54 PM We don't hear much about how long the batteries will last, or how much it will cost to replace them. :-| My understanding is that once the battery has reached end of life its discarded, but no one knows where to yet. Also lithium will need to be mined and all the problems that involves, electric is not pollutants free compared to going Blue. The same gas can be used in domestic boilers instead of scrapping every boiler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 I did read somewhere that batteries can be recycled to re-use the expensive and highly toxic and polluting content or in some cases, used as part of a power storage bank of batteries to offset power cuts? Or maybe that is just fake news put out by those trying to justify them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 colin - 2021-02-27 6:11 PM There's plenty of info on batteries, how long they last, and how much they cost to replace. I have seen very little reliable ( i.e. independent ) info about battery life, but I did come across a survey carried out by the Consumers Association among members who had owned electric cars. They conclude that, as far as ' range ' is concerned, cars up to 3 years old maintain about 98% of their original range, which decreases to 92% after 4 or 5 years. That doesn't sound too bad - as long as you don't spend too much time touring. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 A few facts. Depreciation is less than a ICE car. Tesla model 3 batteries good for 186,000 - 310,000, replacement cost £5k. Tesla give a 8 year 150,000 miles warranty on the battery. Tesla model 3 standard range 263 miles, long range 353 You fit a Tesla wall charger and charge overnight on a differential tariff (economy 7 for you dinosaurs) or solar, expect 25 miles range for each hour on charge. You can use a standard plug but only get about 8 miles range per hour charge. There are also Superchargers dotted around which when you use them will use the destination in your Gps to tell you when it's put in enough charge, it will also plan your route around Superchargers. Cost of electricity at a supercharger are half the fuel costs, it can put 80% range back in 30 minutes. So like it or not this is the future, more Superchargers will be installed just like more petrol stations were installed as cars took off. On street charging will become the norm - it's a purposeful emerging technology that is becoming mainstream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 What happens to the running costs of electric cars when the Government taxes them as much as petrol/diesel cars? They have got to get the tax from somewhere, There is less pollution coming out of the exhaust because its created elsewhere manufacturing the batteries and creating the electricity. Not that it will worry the politicians because they keep the polluting industries away from where they live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 John52 - 2021-02-27 11:12 PM There is less pollution coming out of the exhaust because its created elsewhere manufacturing the batteries and creating the electricity. Not that it will worry the politicians because they keep the polluting industries away from where they live Haven't seen anyone promoting that theory since the oil companies realised they had lost and stopped publishing lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 John52 - 2021-02-27 11:12 PM What happens to the running costs of electric cars when the Government taxes them as much as petrol/diesel cars? They have got to get the tax from somewhere, There is less pollution coming out of the exhaust because its created elsewhere manufacturing the batteries and creating the electricity. Not that it will worry the politicians because they keep the polluting industries away from where they live What happens to ICE when the subsidy to the oil industries is removed? https://www.energyvoice.com/opinion/234139/uk-fossil-fuel-subsidies-exist-by-the-back-door/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-27 9:58 PM A few facts. Depreciation is less than a ICE car. Tesla model 3 batteries good for 186,000 - 310,000, replacement cost £5k. Tesla give a 8 year 150,000 miles warranty on the battery. Tesla model 3 standard range 263 miles, long range 353 You fit a Tesla wall charger and charge overnight on a differential tariff (economy 7 for you dinosaurs) or solar, expect 25 miles range for each hour on charge. You can use a standard plug but only get about 8 miles range per hour charge. There are also Superchargers dotted around which when you use them will use the destination in your Gps to tell you when it's put in enough charge, it will also plan your route around Superchargers. Cost of electricity at a supercharger are half the fuel costs, it can put 80% range back in 30 minutes. So like it or not this is the future, more Superchargers will be installed just like more petrol stations were installed as cars took off. On street charging will become the norm - it's a purposeful emerging technology that is becoming mainstream. So at some point " down the road" when a vehicle has done the life of the battery and cant afford the £ 5k to replace the battery, presumably has to dump the whole car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 I'd rather have a V8 classic car that a tree hugging Noddy mobile B-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-02-28 8:53 AM I'd rather have a V8 classic car that a tree hugging Noddy mobile B-) ......... V8 gas guzzling polluter for Englands congested roads. Don't you care about kids who are dying with air pollution the cause of death on the death certificate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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