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That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
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usermalc d
Posted: 5 January 2022 11:23 AM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 
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pelmetman - 2022-01-05 9:10 AM

CurtainRaiser - 2022-01-04 4:20 PM

You seem to have avoided my questions?

"And more importantly how does Pelmethead, our most knowledgeable and self educated member, propose that Covid deaths should be recorded? Perhaps he could share with other forum members (aka LOSERS) his rationale as to why the changes introduced by Johnson's government more than seventeen months ago is suddenly so objectionable to him? Is it because it's producing big numbers?




Obviously the "d" in malc d stands for DUMB .........



Excellent !

He's starting name calling ( again ).

I take that to mean that Dave has conceded ' defeat '.

userpelmetman
Posted: 5 January 2022 11:45 AM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 


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malc d - 2022-01-05 11:23 AM

pelmetman - 2022-01-05 9:10 AM

CurtainRaiser - 2022-01-04 4:20 PM

You seem to have avoided my questions?

"And more importantly how does Pelmethead, our most knowledgeable and self educated member, propose that Covid deaths should be recorded? Perhaps he could share with other forum members (aka LOSERS) his rationale as to why the changes introduced by Johnson's government more than seventeen months ago is suddenly so objectionable to him? Is it because it's producing big numbers?




Obviously the "d" in malc d stands for DUMB .........



Excellent !

He's starting name calling ( again ).

I take that to mean that Dave has conceded ' defeat '.



If you think that......then you really are DUMB .........

BTW have you managed to work out the difference between "Dying From" and "Dying With" .........
usermalc d
Posted: 5 January 2022 1:08 PM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 
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pelmetman - 2022-01-05 11:45 AM

malc d - 2022-01-05 11:23 AM

pelmetman - 2022-01-05 9:10 AM

CurtainRaiser - 2022-01-04 4:20 PM

You seem to have avoided my questions?

"And more importantly how does Pelmethead, our most knowledgeable and self educated member, propose that Covid deaths should be recorded? Perhaps he could share with other forum members (aka LOSERS) his rationale as to why the changes introduced by Johnson's government more than seventeen months ago is suddenly so objectionable to him? Is it because it's producing big numbers?




Obviously the "d" in malc d stands for DUMB .........



Excellent !

He's starting name calling ( again ).

I take that to mean that Dave has conceded ' defeat '.


.

BTW have you managed to work out the difference between "Dying From" and "Dying With" .........



Regardless of dying "with" or " from " Covid ( which even you appear to understand ) have YOU worked what the difference is between dying before or after 28 days ?


userCurtainRaiser
Posted: 5 January 2022 2:03 PM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 
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pelmetman - 2022-01-05 9:10 AM

CurtainRaiser - 2022-01-04 4:20 PM

You seem to have avoided my questions?

"And more importantly how does Pelmethead, our most knowledgeable and self educated member, propose that Covid deaths should be recorded? Perhaps he could share with other forum members (aka LOSERS) his rationale as to why the changes introduced by Johnson's government more than seventeen months ago is suddenly so objectionable to him? Is it because it's producing big numbers?



I dont have a problem with the way COVID deaths are recorded, as its plain to anyone with half a brain that to carry out post-mortems is impractical .........

I have a problem with the Squad who are perverting the facts by saying that they ONLY include those who died FROM COVID .........

As is evident from this sh1te posted by malc.d ........

"So now you can see how the government are spinning the number of people who die from COVID by only ANNOUNCING those who die in the first 28 days."

Obviously the "d" in malc d stands for DUMB .........


So you are really saying that as of today, 148,941 deaths is acceptable but 172,657 is not? What a strange person you are.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths
userBulletguy
Posted: 5 January 2022 7:30 PM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 


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malc d - 2022-01-05 11:23 AM

pelmetman - 2022-01-05 9:10 AM

CurtainRaiser - 2022-01-04 4:20 PM

You seem to have avoided my questions?

"And more importantly how does Pelmethead, our most knowledgeable and self educated member, propose that Covid deaths should be recorded? Perhaps he could share with other forum members (aka LOSERS) his rationale as to why the changes introduced by Johnson's government more than seventeen months ago is suddenly so objectionable to him? Is it because it's producing big numbers?




Obviously the "d" in malc d stands for DUMB .........



Excellent !

He's starting name calling ( again ).

I take that to mean that Dave has conceded ' defeat '.


I'd say he defeated himself long back by trying to be a smart arse. Meanwhile here is todays figures.



(Covid deaths UKGov 5th Jan 2022.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Covid deaths UKGov 5th Jan 2022.JPG (74KB - 9 downloads)
userpelmetman
Posted: 6 January 2022 9:08 AM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 


Walks with the gods

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malc d - 2022-01-05 1:08 PM

pelmetman - 2022-01-05 11:45 AM

malc d - 2022-01-05 11:23 AM

pelmetman - 2022-01-05 9:10 AM

CurtainRaiser - 2022-01-04 4:20 PM

You seem to have avoided my questions?

"And more importantly how does Pelmethead, our most knowledgeable and self educated member, propose that Covid deaths should be recorded? Perhaps he could share with other forum members (aka LOSERS) his rationale as to why the changes introduced by Johnson's government more than seventeen months ago is suddenly so objectionable to him? Is it because it's producing big numbers?




Obviously the "d" in malc d stands for DUMB .........



Excellent !

He's starting name calling ( again ).

I take that to mean that Dave has conceded ' defeat '.


.

BTW have you managed to work out the difference between "Dying From" and "Dying With" .........



Regardless of dying "with" or " from " Covid ( which even you appear to understand ) have YOU worked what the difference is between dying before or after 28 days ?




Yep ...........

UK Health Security Agency
Organisations: UK Health Security Agency

Defining a COVID-19 death
Although it might seem straightforward, counting the number of people who have died from COVID-19 related illness is complex.

The infection can lead to death soon after diagnosis, but it may also cause death many weeks later. ****Someone who tests positive can of course die from another cause such as cancer or heart disease at any time.****

A death in someone who has tested positive becomes progressively less likely to be directly due to COVID-19 as time passes and more likely to be due to another cause. However, there is no agreed cut-off after which COVID-19 can be excluded as a likely cause and sadly, we know that some people die from their infection many weeks later. Coronavirus can also contribute to a death without being the main or “underlying” cause.

The World Health Organization (WHO) recognises this complexity and states that:

A COVID-19 death is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID-19 disease (e.g. trauma).

This definition therefore requires a clinical assessment of each case.

For several months, the COVID-19 Data Dashboard has been reporting, for England, all deaths in people who have a positive test. This a robust measure as it uses the fact of a positive test and the fact of death to derive the number reported. ****However, it is only an approximation of the number of people who die from COVID-19 because other causes of death are included**** and some people who die from COVID-19 never had a positive test. It was decided to adopt this measure in April in order to be sure not to underestimate the number of COVID-19 related deaths. It was always intended to review the approach as the pandemic progressed.

The countries of the UK have been using slightly different methods. Scotland, for example, has only been counting deaths within 28 days of a positive test so that deaths from COVID-19 beyond 28 days are not included.

Let me know if you need any help in understanding the above ........

BTW I wonder what Sturgeon has to hide? ..........

Or more to the point why the Squad haven't got a problem with her not counting those who died after 28 days? .........

As if I didn't know .........

Worra bunch of LOSER Chimps ..........
userCurtainRaiser
Posted: 6 January 2022 9:26 AM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 
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Surprised that you missed out the rest of that piece of which documents the changes in place since August 2020?

"What is changing?

Two new deaths indicators will now be used by all four nations in the UK to provide a full picture of both recent trends and the longer-term burden of the disease.

The additional indicators which will be used to calculate daily death figures are:

the number of deaths in people with COVID-19 that occur within 28 days of a first positive laboratory-confirmed test. This is intended to provide a headline indicator of the immediate impact of recent epidemic activity. Deaths that occur more than 28 days after a positive test will not be included in this count.
the number of deaths that occur within 60 days of a first positive test. Deaths that occur after 60 days will also be added to this figure if COVID-19 appears on the death certificate. This will provide a more complete measure of the burden of the disease over time.

Using these new measures, the total number of deaths in people with laboratory-confirmed infection is reduced by 5,377 if only deaths within 28-day of a test are included, and by 1,668 if including only deaths within 60 days or at any time with COVID-19 mentioned on the death certificate.

This approach has been peer reviewed by external statistical experts."

https://ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2020/08/12/behind-the-headlines-counting-covid-19-deaths/

What's up, did it not match your narrative?
userpelmetman
Posted: 6 January 2022 9:37 AM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 


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Location: A different planet to you


CurtainRaiser - 2022-01-06 9:26 AM


Surprised that you missed out the rest of that piece of which documents the changes in place since August 2020?

"What is changing?

Two new deaths indicators will now be used by all four nations in the UK to provide a full picture of both recent trends and the longer-term burden of the disease.

The additional indicators which will be used to calculate daily death figures are:

the number of deaths in people with COVID-19 that occur within 28 days of a first positive laboratory-confirmed test. This is intended to provide a headline indicator of the immediate impact of recent epidemic activity. Deaths that occur more than 28 days after a positive test will not be included in this count.
the number of deaths that occur within 60 days of a first positive test. Deaths that occur after 60 days will also be added to this figure if COVID-19 appears on the death certificate. This will provide a more complete measure of the burden of the disease over time.

Using these new measures, the total number of deaths in people with laboratory-confirmed infection is reduced by 5,377 if only deaths within 28-day of a test are included, and by 1,668 if including only deaths within 60 days or at any time with COVID-19 mentioned on the death certificate.

This approach has been peer reviewed by external statistical experts."

https://ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2020/08/12/behind-the-headlines-counting-covid-19-deaths/

What's up, did it not match your narrative?


All that says is that Sturgeon has decided to include those who died after 28 days "WITH COVID".

It's funny how she's moved her goalposts now the worst of the Pandemic appears to be over ......

Perhaps up until now her numbers were far worse than Englands? .........

Still no exact numbers for those who "actually" died from COVID........but I guess we'll never know the true figure.........not that you Boris Haters are "actually" bothered with the truth ......

Got any Balls yet? .........
userCurtainRaiser
Posted: 6 January 2022 9:49 AM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 
Forum master

Posts: 2521
2000500


pelmetman - 2022-01-06 9:37 AM

CurtainRaiser - 2022-01-06 9:26 AM


Surprised that you missed out the rest of that piece of which documents the changes in place since August 2020?

"What is changing?

Two new deaths indicators will now be used by all four nations in the UK to provide a full picture of both recent trends and the longer-term burden of the disease.

The additional indicators which will be used to calculate daily death figures are:

the number of deaths in people with COVID-19 that occur within 28 days of a first positive laboratory-confirmed test. This is intended to provide a headline indicator of the immediate impact of recent epidemic activity. Deaths that occur more than 28 days after a positive test will not be included in this count.
the number of deaths that occur within 60 days of a first positive test. Deaths that occur after 60 days will also be added to this figure if COVID-19 appears on the death certificate. This will provide a more complete measure of the burden of the disease over time.

Using these new measures, the total number of deaths in people with laboratory-confirmed infection is reduced by 5,377 if only deaths within 28-day of a test are included, and by 1,668 if including only deaths within 60 days or at any time with COVID-19 mentioned on the death certificate.

This approach has been peer reviewed by external statistical experts."

https://ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2020/08/12/behind-the-headlines-counting-covid-19-deaths/

What's up, did it not match your narrative?


All that says is that Sturgeon has decided to include those who died after 28 days "WITH COVID".

It's funny how she's moved her goalposts now the worst of the Pandemic appears to be over ......

Perhaps up until now her numbers were far worse than Englands? .........

Still no exact numbers for those who "actually" died from COVID........but I guess we'll never know the true figure.........not that you Boris Haters are "actually" bothered with the truth ......

Got any Balls yet? .........


Oh look you have lost the argument and need to resort to childish insults. Although I note that you still haven't mastered English comprehension then?

So go on tell us how you think covid deaths should be recorded?

And then tell us how WHO suggests deaths are recorded?

It will give you something to do while you wait for your windows to arrive.

userGremlin
Posted: 6 January 2022 10:12 AM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 
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My word - what an advert for silliness this Thread and most of the other ones on here are.

Congratulations

You have collectively seen off all the mature adults who discuss sensibly and can do so without resorting to childishness.

Take a moment and review yourselves in the light of the fact that there are about five of you who now “own” Chatterbox most likely because all sensible people have gone where you trolls are not.

Chatterbox now works like this.

Pelmetman winds the other four up and like clockwork toys the other four run about, having a foursome mutual admiration society “Aren’t we clever” orgy of arrogant ignorance.

All five of you are as bad as each other.

And all of you are selective in the data you use - for example, figures were quoted whereby the U.K. has/had a higher Covid infection rate than Europe.

All sorts of nonsensical arrant nonsense was then inferred from this isolated snippet of information.

But the context in which that single data set exists was entirely ignored.

But I supposed if you are simpleminded and “on a mission” then such realities as context and accuracy or really not that important to you as long as you can impress the other four in what has become a inconsequential bubble of irrelevance.

I say this because we saw the same figures - but we were presented them within the context of population density. I shall keep the next bit as simple as possible as I am aware of the intellectual standards of those who now “own” Chatterbox.

The population density of the EU is circa 117 per Km2

The equivalent figure for the U.K. is circa 268 per Km2

I could go on to point out that infection rates in certain European Cities are significantly greater than equivalent urban areas/cities in the U.K..

But the fact remains that with a population density of nearly two and a half times that of the EU - the vaccine distribution in the U.K. is something that has/is been a credit to all involved.

So a plea to those on here.

Please grow up and see the bigger picture. The world really is bigger than an obscure Forum whereby due to your antics, you exist in a weird form of stasis of you own making.

Kind Regards

Gremlin
usermalc d
Posted: 6 January 2022 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 
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pelmetman - 2022-01-06 9:08 AM


UK Health Security Agency
Organisations: UK Health Security Agency


The World Health Organization (WHO) recognises this complexity and states that:


. It was always intended to review the approach as the pandemic progressed.


...
.........



I'm quite pleased to see that the WHO agree with me.

If someone dies FROM Covid, it makes no difference whether they die before or after 28 days.

A random figure of 28 days was chosen for reporting purposes - and it was intended to review it - but presumably have not yet got round to doing so.
Not surprising really - they have been too busy.



Edited by malc d 2022-01-06 10:41 AM
userpelmetman
Posted: 6 January 2022 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 


Walks with the gods

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Location: A different planet to you


malc d - 2022-01-06 10:40 AM

pelmetman - 2022-01-06 9:08 AM


UK Health Security Agency
Organisations: UK Health Security Agency


The World Health Organization (WHO) recognises this complexity and states that:


. It was always intended to review the approach as the pandemic progressed.


...
.........



I'm quite pleased to see that the WHO agree with me.

If someone dies FROM Covid, it makes no difference whether they die before or after 28 days.

A random figure of 28 days was chosen for reporting purposes - and it was intended to review it - but presumably have not yet got round to doing so.
Not surprising really - they have been too busy.



So where does the WHO say only those who died "FROM COVID" are included in the data? .........

Perhaps you can highlight where it does? ..........
usermalc d
Posted: 6 January 2022 12:12 PM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 
Legendary contributor

Posts: 9262
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pelmetman - 2022-01-06 11:37 AM

malc d - 2022-01-06 10:40 AM

pelmetman - 2022-01-06 9:08 AM


UK Health Security Agency
Organisations: UK Health Security Agency


The World Health Organization (WHO) recognises this complexity and states that:


. It was always intended to review the approach as the pandemic progressed.


...
.........



I'm quite pleased to see that the WHO agree with me.

If someone dies FROM Covid, it makes no difference whether they die before or after 28 days.

A random figure of 28 days was chosen for reporting purposes - and it was intended to review it - but presumably have not yet got round to doing so.
Not surprising really - they have been too busy.



So where does the WHO say only those who died "FROM COVID" are included in the data? .........

........



I haven't suggested they do say that - so why ask ME ?

userCurtainRaiser
Posted: 6 January 2022 12:26 PM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 
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Gremlin - 2022-01-06 10:12 AM
I say this because we saw the same figures - but we were presented them within the context of population density. I shall keep the next bit as simple as possible as I am aware of the intellectual standards of those who now “own” Chatterbox.

The population density of the EU is circa 117 per Km2

The equivalent figure for the U.K. is circa 268 per Km2



Interesting first post?

But lets have a look at population density by country, not comparing just one country with 27.

https://www.worldometers.info/population/countries-in-europe-by-population/

How does your argument then stack up?

userpelmetman
Posted: 6 January 2022 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 38147
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malc d - 2022-01-06 12:12 PM

pelmetman - 2022-01-06 11:37 AM

malc d - 2022-01-06 10:40 AM

pelmetman - 2022-01-06 9:08 AM


UK Health Security Agency
Organisations: UK Health Security Agency


The World Health Organization (WHO) recognises this complexity and states that:


. It was always intended to review the approach as the pandemic progressed.


...
.........



I'm quite pleased to see that the WHO agree with me.

If someone dies FROM Covid, it makes no difference whether they die before or after 28 days.

A random figure of 28 days was chosen for reporting purposes - and it was intended to review it - but presumably have not yet got round to doing so.
Not surprising really - they have been too busy.



So where does the WHO say only those who died "FROM COVID" are included in the data? .........

........



I haven't suggested they do say that - so why ask ME ?



What did you mean by this statement ............

"So now you can see how the government are spinning the number of people who die from COVID by only ANNOUNCING those who die in the first 28 days."

It certainly "Suggests" to me that you believe the figures only applies to those who died "FROM COVID" .........

So do you now accept that the figures also include those who died "FROM" heart attacks, cancer, dementia, etc etc but also tested positive for COVID?............
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 6 January 2022 6:47 PM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 
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Gremlin

Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums - it's interesting to have someone new enter the Kiddies Korner forum cage-fighting arena - though it beats me where the challenge is. If you are going to bother to compete, best you read the "CHATTERBOX STANDARDS" thread at the top of the Chatterbox homepage.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 7 January 2022 12:06 PM
Subject: RE: That'll ruin the squads New Year...........
 
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I've brought this thread back to the Chatterbox forum having edited it heavily and frozen it. Many of the postings made yesterday have been deleted from the point where the thread went completely off-topic and became an abusive head-to-head slanging contest.

Although Chatterbox is now dominated by a few people expressing their socio-political views, I'm given to understand that this is acceptable to the forum Administrator provided that the views are not too extreme and arguments are not too unpleasant.

It's worth bearing in mind that it's a lot easier for a forum moderator/administrator to remove a complete thread than it is to try to edit a thread to tone it down.

So feel free to continue to use your strange vocabulary and favourite nicknames, but don't let threads turn into off-topic shouting matches (or even on-topic shouting matches for that matter).

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