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Walks with the gods
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Location: Cheshire
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The UK education secretary, James Cleverly, has said he would be open to Johnson joining a Truss-led government if she was “comfortable” with it.
“He’s an incredibly talented politician......... 
....but it’s not for me to start dictating to Liz who she puts into her cabinet.”
(Seems a tad premature to me!)
Also, not satisfied with the damage he's already done, over 9,000 Blukippers are reported to have signed a petition calling for Johnson to be put on the leadership ballot.
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Legendary contributor
Posts: 9200
Location: Bedfordshire, Globecar 636SB
| What are the odds on Boris being PM before end of this parliament? I might put a few quid on it. |
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Walks with the gods
Posts: 18695
Location: Cheshire
| colin - 2022-07-25 8:08 PM
What are the odds on Boris being PM before end of this parliament? I might put a few quid on it.
If they open the asylum come polling day you should make a few bob.  |
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Legendary contributor
Posts: 9478
| It's very worrying that the same small crowd of people who chose Johnson are now being allowed to choose the next leader.
Not a good advert for democracy - more like a banana republic.
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Walks with the gods
Posts: 18695
Location: Cheshire
| malc d - 2022-07-25 8:35 PM
It's very worrying that the same small crowd of people who chose Johnson are now being allowed to choose the next leader.
Not a good advert for democracy - more like a banana republic.
Totally agree Malc......hence the reason the country is in such a mess. |
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Walks with the gods
Posts: 18695
Location: Cheshire
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A Conservative talking sense (the comments are worth a read too!).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQKc_HVHoeo |
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Forum master
Posts: 3159
| Looks like the people choosing our next Prime Minister are based in Moscow, again.
"You do not have to be eligible to vote in the UK to join the Conservative Party or Conservatives Abroad. " |
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Walks with the gods
Posts: 18695
Location: Cheshire
| CurtainRaiser - 2022-07-26 11:05 AM
Looks like the people choosing our next Prime Minister are based in Moscow, again.
"You do not have to be eligible to vote in the UK to join the Conservative Party or Conservatives Abroad. "
The Conservative Friends of Russia only disbanded in March this year. Matthew Elliot was a founder member.......who went on to chair the Vote Leave campaign. Convenient eh?
I expect the disbanding is little more than PR and the group simply gone underground as they need to keep their Russian donors onboard.
https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/politics/conservative-friends-of-russia-group-disbands-with-immediate-effect/ |
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Walks with the gods
Posts: 18695
Location: Cheshire
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Colin had best get down the bookies! 
A survey was carried out on Tory voters and it seems a majority of them believe the best person to replace Boris Johnson is.....Boris Johnson. 
97% also stated that they value honesty when selecting a leader, which makes zero sense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpgBdjNfAuE |
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The special one
Posts: 11829
Location: Pissindoon, Scotland
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He's right of course
and as one commentator said
'The Conservative Party has ALWAYS been a party of the rich who had to convince those less well off to vote against their own self interest. '
No one has been better at that than Johnson - even allowing for the fact he has the majority of the media on his side by giving its £billionaire non-dom owners what they want at our expense. Wheras other parties have said they will end the non-dom tax loopholes, making the seriously rich pay tax, leading to the most vicious and despicable personal attacks on them in the populist press.
Truss must have realised that telling the truth won't get her elected.
Truss must have been taking lessons from Johnson now promising anything to get elected, even though she must know she cannot keep her promises, even if she wanted to.
I despair of whats happening in England, and feel thoroughly ashamed of the legacy we are leaving to the next generation - even though I have had no part in bringing it about. I look back at those who won what freedoms we have - like the Chartists and Suffragettes, and think couldn't I have done more |
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Walks with the gods
Posts: 18695
Location: Cheshire
| John52 - 2022-07-27 8:48 AM
He's right of course
and as one commentator said
'The Conservative Party has ALWAYS been a party of the rich who had to convince those less well off to vote against their own self interest. '
No one has been better at that than Johnson - even allowing for the fact he has the majority of the media on his side by giving its £billionaire non-dom owners what they want at our expense. Wheras other parties have said they will end the non-dom tax loopholes, making the seriously rich pay tax, leading to the most vicious and despicable personal attacks on them in the populist press.
Truss must have realised that telling the truth won't get her elected.
Truss must have been taking lessons from Johnson now promising anything to get elected, even though she must know she cannot keep her promises, even if she wanted to.
I despair of whats happening in England, and feel thoroughly ashamed of the legacy we are leaving to the next generation - even though I have had no part in bringing it about. I look back at those who won what freedoms we have - like the Chartists and Suffragettes, and think couldn't I have done more
This is from another Conservative. Apologies if it's been posted before but it's well worth bookmarking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWsa_sqdYzM
This is really cringeworthy stuff from Truss!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FetGVzX4z4M |
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Legendary contributor
Posts: 9200
Location: Bedfordshire, Globecar 636SB
| Speaking to a friend who is a party member and will be voting.
We don't want an asian as prime minster |
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Walks with the gods
Posts: 18695
Location: Cheshire
| colin - 2022-07-27 6:06 PM
Speaking to a friend who is a party member and will be voting.
We don't want an asian as prime minster
That comes as no surprise since the infestation from UKIP, BP, BF and other RW extremists.
Former Brexit Party MEP, Lucy Harris, has been recruited to co-ordinate Liz Truss’s grassroots campaign, which tells you everything you need to know about the current membership of the Conservative Party. |
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The special one
Posts: 11829
Location: Pissindoon, Scotland
| colin - 2022-07-27 6:06 PM
Speaking to a friend who is a party member and will be voting.
We don't want an asian as prime minster
Well yes, Truss has secured her place by courting the worst people in her party, not least the £billionaire tax avoiding owners of the populist 'newspapers', but race is only part of it
From the FT;
It has often been said that Boris Johnson was the only person who could hold the current Tory coalition together, a view entrenched by the nasty contest to succeed him. A core reason for this, though, was his capacity for selling political doublethink, or as he put it, being “pro having cake and pro eating it”.
While Conservatives may have tired of Johnson’s personal failings there is less evidence they have tired of cakeism. They want investment in public services and help with energy bills but lower taxation; sound money but also higher borrowing, deregulation with interventionism; Brexit and higher growth; housebuilding but just not where they live.
Today’s Conservative party dislikes hard choices. And this is a problem for Rishi Sunak, because the former chancellor has decided to make facing up to them his key pitch to succeed Johnson.
The cakeist candidate is Liz Truss and the foreign secretary and frontrunner is prepared to go full gateau if it gets her to the top. While Sunak stresses the menace of inflation, his rival is offering unfunded tax cuts to drive growth and a halt to green levies to reduce fuel bills (both demands of the party’s right).
While this might raise questions over whether she is the best person for the country, it probably makes her the right choice for this Conservative party. She offers Johnsonism without his personal deficiencies and unleashed from Sunak’s tiresome demands that spending must be funded. For all her talk to the contrary, Truss is the continuity candidate.
But perhaps the bigger concern about a Truss premiership is that she secured her place in the final two by courting the worst people in her party. The foreign secretary has always been a more serious figure than her caricature and has, in fairness, long challenged Treasury and Bank of England orthodoxy. But ambition has seen the one-time Cameron acolyte allow herself to become the candidate of the ideological obsessives, the fantasists, the climate change diminishers, the culture warriors and those for whom Brexit can only be failing because it has not been properly tried. These people dismiss Sunak as a socialist and blame Johnson’s downfall on anyone but himself.
Truss is smart enough to know better, but canny enough to play along. And so she promises tax cuts, higher borrowing and a more confrontational approach to Brexit. She is enough of a small-stater to favour spending cuts but seemingly not this side of an election.
In this topsy-turvy contest, the Remainer Truss is the Brexit candidate; the woman who loyally served in the cabinet of the past three premiers is the change candidate; a Reaganite who calls herself a Thatcherite who has suddenly found the magic money tree and no longer worries about the deficit.
Meanwhile Sunak, an original Leave supporter, is depicted as a Boris back-stabber and a Brexit trimmer who wishes to avoid confrontation with Brussels. He has become the mainstream candidate, irritating Tories with talk of fiscal responsibility and tackling inflation. Worse, he has dismissed their economic ideas as “fairy tales”.
But Tories want the fairy tale. For many, the test is no longer what you have done but whether you believe. There is no place for questioning. Approbation comes by faith alone.
Truss exemplifies this. Her Brexit credentials rest on her newfound readiness to confront the EU over the Northern Ireland protocol and her overseeing a series of not very advantageous trade deals, their value mattering less than her zeal for them. To underscore her conversion, Truss now says she was wrong to vote Remain. Not only does she admit getting the biggest call for decades wrong, but she may be the only Remainer to have changed her mind on the evidence of the past six years.
Doubt is such a heresy that both candidates must now deny any link between Brexit and delays at Channel ports, or its role in the labour shortages and weak pound which are exacerbating inflation. Both flinch from talk of how to deliver net zero goals or any long-term projects.
And yet this is why Truss is the right choice. The Tories no longer have any time for inconvenient facts or for any strategy other than doubling down on tax cuts and pure Brexit. She will be more convincing in this role.
The gap between Truss’s tax cuts now and Sunak’s next year is not quite as stark as he suggests, though her seeming deprioritisation of inflation is alarming. Yet having played his own role in detaching the party from economic realities, Sunak should not be surprised Tories are now painting him as a “declinist” for presenting them with hard choices. Panicked, he is now offering his own VAT cut on home energy.
Truss has also shown far more guile in the past two years and such low skills matter in politics. Where Sunak has been inflexible, she has been supple. Where he has been lumbering in his response to the cost of living crisis, Truss has been sharp. It may be that a victorious Truss will go on to betray her faction. But few modern leaders escape their right flank once they pander to it. Sunak would face such rebels from day one.
Or perhaps her strategy will pay off. A leader who lowers tax and maintains spending is a harder target for Labour. It is possible her economic unorthodoxy is vindicated.
But it seems ever more likely that we will look back at this contest as the final stage of the supposedly natural party of government’s regression into political infantilism. The battle for leader may have a few weeks to run, but the trajectory is set.
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The special one
Posts: 11829
Location: Pissindoon, Scotland
| They failed to mention the biggest factor - Truss courting the £billionaire owners of the 'newspapers' read by the tiny minority who will decide the next PM. For instance by excusing them from paying tax on their £billions. Running up a deficit and taxing the little people instead.
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Walks with the gods
Posts: 18695
Location: Cheshire
| John52 - 2022-07-28 7:23 AM
They failed to mention the biggest factor - Truss courting the £billionaire owners of the 'newspapers' read by the tiny minority who will decide the next PM. For instance by excusing them from paying tax on their £billions. Running up a deficit and taxing the little people instead.
Excellent article - thanks for posting it John. |
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The special one
Posts: 11829
Location: Pissindoon, Scotland
| Bulletguy - 2022-07-28 2:38 PM
John52 - 2022-07-28 7:23 AM
They failed to mention the biggest factor - Truss courting the £billionaire owners of the 'newspapers' read by the tiny minority who will decide the next PM. For instance by excusing them from paying tax on their £billions. Running up a deficit and taxing the little people instead.
Excellent article - thanks for posting it John.
Yes I thought so too.
The FT can't insult its reader's intelligence by printing the sort of sh!te thats in the Daily Mail/Express read by Tory party members who will decide the next PM
FT has to do better than that
But they stopped short of pointing out Truss bribing the £billionaire owners of the 'newspapers' read by the people who will decide her future - (by defending their tax free status, unlike Labour who have pledged to end it)
I susect the FT, like other newspapers, is afraid of starting a mud slinging contest with their competitors
Edited by John52 2022-07-28 5:59 PM
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The special one
Posts: 11829
Location: Pissindoon, Scotland
| malc d - 2022-07-25 8:35 PM
It's very worrying that the same small crowd of people who chose Johnson are now being allowed to choose the next leader.
Not a good advert for democracy - more like a banana republic.
Worse than that isn't it?
At least in a republic the head of state is elected? |
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Legendary contributor
Posts: 9478
| John52 - 2022-08-05 8:40 AM
malc d - 2022-07-25 8:35 PM
It's very worrying that the same small crowd of people who chose Johnson are now being allowed to choose the next leader.
Not a good advert for democracy - more like a banana republic.
Worse than that isn't it?
At least in a republic the head of state is elected?
No it's not.
My faith in our electoral system evaporated when we got Boris Johnson.
... and now it looks as if a few members of the public will be electing Liz Truss to continue Johnsons regular U-turn policy.
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The special one
Posts: 11829
Location: Pissindoon, Scotland
| malc d - 2022-08-05 9:45 AM
John52 - 2022-08-05 8:40 AM
malc d - 2022-07-25 8:35 PM
It's very worrying that the same small crowd of people who chose Johnson are now being allowed to choose the next leader.
Not a good advert for democracy - more like a banana republic.
Worse than that isn't it?
At least in a republic the head of state is elected?
No it's not.
My faith in our electoral system evaporated when we got Boris Johnson.
... and now it looks as if a few members of the public will be electing Liz Truss to continue Johnsons regular U-turn policy.
Well its the Unelected Head of State who gives Johnson & Truss their powers through the Royal Prerogative (for as long as things keep going her way)
The big difference is we can get rid of Johnson & Truss
How do we get rid of the Unelected Head of State if the next one turns out to be like Johnson? |
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Legendary contributor
Posts: 9478
| John52 - 2022-08-05 10:39 AM
malc d - 2022-08-05 9:45 AM
John52 - 2022-08-05 8:40 AM
malc d - 2022-07-25 8:35 PM
It's very worrying that the same small crowd of people who chose Johnson are now being allowed to choose the next leader.
Not a good advert for democracy - more like a banana republic.
Worse than that isn't it?
At least in a republic the head of state is elected?
No it's not.
My faith in our electoral system evaporated when we got Boris Johnson.
... and now it looks as if a few members of the public will be electing Liz Truss to continue Johnsons regular U-turn policy.
Well its the Unelected Head of State who gives Johnson & Truss their powers through the Royal Prerogative (for as long as things keep going her way)
The big difference is we can get rid of Johnson & Truss
How do we get rid of the Unelected Head of State if the next one turns out to be like Johnson?
I have been the subject of two monarchs - George 6 and Elizabeth 2.
Neither have caused the country any grief as far as I recall -
( and , before you mention it, neither was involved in the Peterloo Massacre )
( They don't really have any power anyway - they couldn't/didn't even fire Johnson and his cartoon cabinet for example ).
We may be able to get rid of politicians, but not until AFTER they have screwed something up.
YOU may wish to take a chance on getting President Farage, or even the winner of Love Island, to represent us abroad, but I'm not.
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The special one
Posts: 11829
Location: Pissindoon, Scotland
| malc d - 2022-08-05 11:28 AM
They don't really have any power anyway -
So its just a coincidence how many laws are changed to suit them 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo
and the police can't search their homes like they can ours
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/25/revealed-police-barred-from-searching-queens-estates-for-looted-artefacts
and the powers they give to Johnson under their Royal prerogative |
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Legendary contributor
Posts: 9478
| John52 - 2022-08-05 11:34 AM
malc d - 2022-08-05 11:28 AM
They don't really have any power anyway -
So its just a coincidence how many laws are changed to suit them
Is that the only law change that you have found ?
Doesn't bother me if no-one can search their houses - I very much doubt if it will affect the well being or efficient management of the U.K.
It's quite likely they would pass on the same powers to a President anyway, so what 's the difference.
Edited by malc d 2022-08-05 1:40 PM
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Walks with the gods
Posts: 18695
Location: Cheshire
| malc d - 2022-08-05 9:45 AM
John52 - 2022-08-05 8:40 AM
malc d - 2022-07-25 8:35 PM
It's very worrying that the same small crowd of people who chose Johnson are now being allowed to choose the next leader.
Not a good advert for democracy - more like a banana republic.
Worse than that isn't it?
At least in a republic the head of state is elected?
No it's not.
My faith in our electoral system evaporated when we got Boris Johnson.
... and now it looks as if a few members of the public will be electing Liz Truss to continue Johnsons regular U-turn policy.
0.3% of the population so imo a GE needs to be called.
Some interesting stats in this FT article about the typical Tory.
Nearly two-thirds of Tory members — 63 per cent — are men, the research found, compared with just under half of the UK population, according to estimates by the Office for National Statistics.
While 83 per cent of voting-age adults in Great Britain identify as white British, the figure rises to 95 per cent among Tory members.
More than three quarters — 76 per cent — backed Brexit, against 52 per cent of voters as a whole.
Chris Curtis, head of political polling at pollsters Opinium, said it was “unsurprising” that Tory members are different to the wider electorate.
“They are older, lean further to the right on social and economic issues, care more about immigration, and care less about climate change,” he said.
Immigration, including concerns about “small boats” crossing the English channel, is the second highest priority for members along with the economy, after the squeeze on living standards, according to Opinium polling carried out between July 8 and July 13.
https://www.ft.com/content/1454fe21-5b2e-459c-966c-65fd48d52f8f |
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Walks with the gods
Posts: 18695
Location: Cheshire
| malc d - 2022-08-05 11:28 AM
John52 - 2022-08-05 10:39 AM
malc d - 2022-08-05 9:45 AM
John52 - 2022-08-05 8:40 AM
malc d - 2022-07-25 8:35 PM
It's very worrying that the same small crowd of people who chose Johnson are now being allowed to choose the next leader.
Not a good advert for democracy - more like a banana republic.
Worse than that isn't it?
At least in a republic the head of state is elected?
No it's not.
My faith in our electoral system evaporated when we got Boris Johnson.
... and now it looks as if a few members of the public will be electing Liz Truss to continue Johnsons regular U-turn policy.
Well its the Unelected Head of State who gives Johnson & Truss their powers through the Royal Prerogative (for as long as things keep going her way)
The big difference is we can get rid of Johnson & Truss
How do we get rid of the Unelected Head of State if the next one turns out to be like Johnson?
I have been the subject of two monarchs - George 6 and Elizabeth 2.
Neither have caused the country any grief as far as I recall -
( and , before you mention it, neither was involved in the Peterloo Massacre )
( They don't really have any power anyway - they couldn't/didn't even fire Johnson and his cartoon cabinet for example ).
We may be able to get rid of politicians, but not until AFTER they have screwed something up.
YOU may wish to take a chance on getting President Farage, or even the winner of Love Island, to represent us abroad, but I'm not.
God forbid.....we're in enough mess as it is already! |
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Walks with the gods
Posts: 18695
Location: Cheshire
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Capitalism = take from the poor to give to the wealthy. He openly admits it.
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1555482094582829062
 (Sunak levelling up.JPG)
Attachments
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 Sunak levelling up.JPG (95KB - 1 downloads)
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The special one
Posts: 11829
Location: Pissindoon, Scotland
| So would you rather have someone as bad as Farage
1) Elected so we can remove him
2) Unelected so we can't? |
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The special one
Posts: 11829
Location: Pissindoon, Scotland
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He is sucking up to the tiny and selfish minority of people who will elect our next PM
We have a housing crisis that is crippling the economy and blighting the lives of millions of people.
Sunak promises to make it worse by stopping building on anything they choose to call 'green belt'
Pretending we can build all the homes we desperately need out of sight of Tory party members.
Because thats what this tiny selfish minority want 
You might think there is no one worse until you see Truss
Edited by John52 2022-08-06 7:26 AM
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Legendary contributor
Posts: 9478
| John52 - 2022-08-06 7:15 AM
So would you rather have someone as bad as Farage
1) Elected so we can remove him
2) Unelected so we can't?
I can't see anyone in the current, or future, monarchy, that seems likely to turn out like Farage.
IF that time ever comes, they can always be ignored.
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The special one
Posts: 11829
Location: Pissindoon, Scotland
| malc d - 2022-08-06 9:47 AM
I can't see anyone in the current, or future, monarchy, that seems likely to turn out like Farage.
I only know what gets into the media
I don't know all them personally, so I can't say.
And I certainly don't know what future ones will be like as you obviously do |
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