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The "other" m/home site
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usereuroanchor
Posted: 14 December 2006 9:56 AM
Subject: The "other" m/home site
 


Pops in from time to time

Posts: 103
100
Location: Ebbw Vale,South Wales


Well, it would appear that after having a go at our very own Frank W. Some of the paying members on M*F, have decided to include the rest of us in their "having a pop " thread, and I quote

"Strange lot on the 'other' site. looked at it, Im sure its OK if you like that sort of thing but didnt feel I should stay too long through. left afew thoughts for them all. For whats its worth this site is worth every penny, (and thats not an invite to put the subs up !)

Came back here, much more freindly and informative..... "

And honourable member DABurleigh says " he doesn't like the in-gutter rivalry that appears on here"

Now correct me if my thinking is wrong (dont all jump on the bandwaggon) , but what is the point of the above comments ? they give the impression that some of those members who pay to post on M*F believe they are superior to the members on here who dont.

It just proves a point I made many months ago, that far too many motorhomers think they are a cut above the rest, which gives the community as a whole, a negative profile. One post over there,(cant remember who from) stated that if they were to purchase a self build camper that somebody was selling, they would never live it down. How snobbish is that ?

Anyway, my point is this, despite the (usually) good natured banter about a couple of people, this site has a much more relaxed and laid back feeling to it, If you want to pay £10 a year to post on that forum, then do so. But please dont get all righteous when you do.

userhowie
Posted: 14 December 2006 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


2000200010010025
Location: Dunnshargin


Hi Euro. Each to their own as they say, and for anyone with a perceived sense of superior social standing, its only natural that they find a website with those sharing the same opinions and outlook on life.
For myself, I find "Out and About" strikes the right balance, with just about every subject you can think of being aired and discussed.
The real plus with this forum is that its divided into the two main m/h sections which allows you to address any serious questions or replies on the one, and I think it was as Enodreven said, use the other as a chat room, where everyone with a shared interest in the outdoor life can enjoy themselves. Howard.
userFrank Wilkinson
Posted: 14 December 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


I wandered into this site not realising that one had a limited number of posts (10) before having to pay a subscription. I had a great old argument about Britain's nuclear deterrent with a couple of blokes who seemed slightly to the left of Arthur Scargill. Me being slightly to the right of Norman Tebbit made for interesting comment! I made it quite clear that I thought they (just some of them of course) were a bunch of pinko commie liberals and that I'd never paid to use a forum in my life and wasn't starting now. I must also add that, as usual, I didn't start the row but waded in after some nutter insisted that JFK was actually insane!

I've never been back, have no intention of doing so and couldn't care less what anyone is saying!

I've one or two hobbies including collecting fine mechanical watches and using Palm PDAs and subscribe regularly to forums and have never ever come across one that demands a subscription.

I suppose that some people have such large egos that they are happy to shell out some dosh purely to have their opinions in print, but I'm not one of them.

Anyway, I like this site. I like the fact that with most people, you can have a disagreement but they'll come right back and help you. I'm new to motorhoming and have learned an awful lot from some people, to whom I'm most grateful.

Finally, my New Year's resolution is to totally ignore TC101 and hope that others will eventually recognise him for what he really is.

userolley
Posted: 14 December 2006 1:35 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


Has lots to offer

Posts: 460
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Frank Wilkinson - 2006-12-14 11:02 AM

but waded in after some nutter insisted that JFK was actually insane!

I suppose that some people have such large egos that they are happy to shell out some dosh purely to have their opinions in print, but I'm not one of them.

Anyway, I like this site. I like the fact that with most people, you can have a disagreement but they'll come right back and help you. I'm new to motorhoming and have learned an awful lot from some people, to whom I'm most grateful.
Finally, my New Year's resolution is to totally ignore TC101 and hope that others will eventually recognise him for what he really is.



Hi Frank was JFK insane good question, I don't know the answer and I suspect you don't know either. No doubt we could both find info on the net to prove both points of View. (actually I don't really care one way or the other)

As for ego I guess as I also pay £32 to belong to ARVE (RV club) I must have a very big one. But we are never what we perceive ourselves to be are we Frank

I totally agree I have learnt a lot from all of the sites I go on, and am very grateful for all the help I have received no matter the source.

And as for ignoring TC101 how can you? he is one really funny guy.

Merry xmas

Olley

Edited by olley 2006-12-14 1:38 PM
userTC01
Posted: 14 December 2006 3:28 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


Frank Wilkinson - 2006-12-14 11:02 AM

I like the fact that with most people, you can have a disagreement but they'll come right back and help you. I'm new to motorhoming and have learned an awful lot from some people, to whom I'm most grateful.

.



No need for gratitude Frank
userFrank Wilkinson
Posted: 14 December 2006 4:07 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


No Comment.
usercolin
Posted: 14 December 2006 8:19 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 8176
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Location: Bedfordshire, Globecar 636SB


Frank Wilkinson - 2006-12-14 4:07 PM

No Comment.


Its not new year yet so guess you are allowed that post.


As to original post, well we are all different and everybody has different views, thats what make life interesting. Myself I've been told that I am augumentative because sometimes I back 'left' wing views other times I back 'right' wing, but I say 'no' I have my own views on things.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 14 December 2006 8:25 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


50005000500020001000
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Good Man, Colin!  Off topic I know, but the lefties and righties do worry me!  They do reduce everything is to doctrine, to our gang does this, or doesn't approve of that. 

I like a good crossbencher, far more flexible in their approach.  Mind, the other lot do have their uses - if only in pointing out the shortcomings in each others ideas, so we crossbenchers can see where the real sense lies!



Edited by Brian Kirby 2006-12-14 8:26 PM
user656
Posted: 14 December 2006 9:54 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


I post on both sites. Why? Because I can. Do I slag off either sites? No Why? Because there is no mileage in it. Why do I get the feeling certain people on here "get off" on the slagging of the other site. So, to post - after 10 initial posts - you need to subscribe, so what it's only £10 and you save more than that with subscribers discounts. The WWW is big enough for both camps so, lets all be friends and stop this silly oneupmanship.

Just my 2d worth

Dave

656
userFrank Wilkinson
Posted: 14 December 2006 11:37 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


Brian Kirby - 2006-12-14 8:25 PM

Good Man, Colin!  Off topic I know, but the lefties and righties do worry me!  They do reduce everything is to doctrine, to our gang does this, or doesn't approve of that. 

I like a good crossbencher, far more flexible in their approach.  Mind, the other lot do have their uses - if only in pointing out the shortcomings in each others ideas, so we crossbenchers can see where the real sense lies!

A bit disparaging Brian in that everyone has views across the spectrum. In some topics I'd be considered right of centre (crime and punishment for instance), in others I'm very liberal (censorship, sexuality etc). I would argue that most people can define their general political stance but everyone will vary it considerably on some subjects.

I'm a Telegraph-reading businessman and I would feel unhappy with the Guardian and its viewpoint. Many others who consider themselves cross benchers would be most unhappy with the Telegraph's view.

I'm not sure that there can ever be a real cross bencher. Most people have firm opinions on various subjects such as capital punishment, socialism, state interference or state support, however you choose to define it.

I have no intention of debating any of these subjects on this site as they are irrelevent but I would argue that knowing where I stand is not wrong, as is implied in your comments.

userForester
Posted: 15 December 2006 4:42 AM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


500100252525


I have "used up" my free 10 on the other site then I would have to pay. Why, I get all my Qs answered on here and have a laugh doing it I chose this site for the info I got and get what i need to know fast so to ALL the chatter box users 10/10 keep the good work up you have my vote.

Wayne  

usereuroanchor
Posted: 15 December 2006 10:15 AM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


Pops in from time to time

Posts: 103
100
Location: Ebbw Vale,South Wales


Forester, you either stay up really late or have to get up really early


Unless............................................................



you've got a weak bladder and feel like posting when you get up for a pee.

My old dad used to say "the only people up at that time of the morning are milkmen and burglers"
userMel B
Posted: 15 December 2006 9:50 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


The special one

Posts: 12468
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Location: E Yorks, 2015 Globecar FamilyScout L Ducato Maxi


euroanchor - 2006-12-15 10:15 AM

My old dad used to say "the only people up at that time of the morning are milkmen and burglers"


And Tesco employees!!! Poor devils!
usermichele
Posted: 15 December 2006 11:58 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


50005000500100100100100
Location: Rapido ..ask him what size


I thought it was only me that got in trouble for posting so late 1 am

You been out lmuwo or just chopping wood wayne ?
userForester
Posted: 16 December 2006 5:01 AM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


500100252525


Stealing is outlawed in this town, the councellers have past a very strict law on it. They done like the competition  ilmuoya

userForester
Posted: 16 December 2006 5:03 AM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


500100252525


michele - 2006-12-15 11:58 PM I thought it was only me that got in trouble for posting so late 1 am You been out lmuwo or just chopping wood wayne ?

Been out with my chopper michele. he he 

userMel E
Posted: 17 December 2006 3:34 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 
1000100100100252525


Was JFK insane?

Surely what matters much more is: 'Is George W insane'?

He can change our lives - JFK can't.

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 17 December 2006 7:11 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


50005000500020001000
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Frank Wilkinson - 2006-12-14 11:37 PM

A bit disparaging Brian in that everyone has views across the spectrum. In some topics I'd be considered right of centre (crime and punishment for instance), in others I'm very liberal (censorship, sexuality etc). I would argue that most people can define their general political stance but everyone will vary it considerably on some subjects.

I'm a Telegraph-reading businessman and I would feel unhappy with the Guardian and its viewpoint. Many others who consider themselves cross benchers would be most unhappy with the Telegraph's view.

I'm not sure that there can ever be a real cross bencher. Most people have firm opinions on various subjects such as capital punishment, socialism, state interference or state support, however you choose to define it.

I have no intention of debating any of these subjects on this site as they are irrelevent but I would argue that knowing where I stand is not wrong, as is implied in your comments.

But Frank

I thought that was exectly what I was saying.  It's the fully paid up adherents to one or other doctrine that worry me, and anyow, I read the Independent in search of sanity, not the Daily Gruff or the Grauniad.  If it weren't so bl**dy expensive I'd read the FT.  Now that is a good read.

usercolin
Posted: 17 December 2006 7:31 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 8176
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Location: Bedfordshire, Globecar 636SB


Torygraph was a bit thin this saterday, two sheets for 'money matters'! Gone downhill since the 'Brecqhou Brotherhood' took over, I remember the good old days when Tony Benn praised it for being the only paper to impartialy report on the byelection he was contesting
usersaruman
Posted: 17 December 2006 7:46 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


Liking what I've found

Posts: 52
2525
Location: MIDLANDS




Edited by saruman 2006-12-17 7:52 PM
usermom
Posted: 18 December 2006 8:19 AM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


A posting machine

Posts: 352
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Brian Kirby - 2006-12-17 7:11 PM  If it weren't so bl**dy expensive I'd read the FT.  Now that is a good read.

I am not a businessman so my needs are different, but in my opinion the only paper that's worth reading in this country is the Metro. 

If you want an "relatively" uncensored and "relatively" unbiased view of British news and politics, try reading respected national papers from other countries on the internet.  It can be a quite refreshing exercise!  You get to know things about your own country that you're not allowed to know here.

userFrank Wilkinson
Posted: 18 December 2006 10:39 AM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


mom - 2006-12-18 8:19 AM

Brian Kirby - 2006-12-17 7:11 PM  If it weren't so bl**dy expensive I'd read the FT.  Now that is a good read.

I am not a businessman so my needs are different, but in my opinion the only paper that's worth reading in this country is the Metro. 

If you want an "relatively" uncensored and "relatively" unbiased view of British news and politics, try reading respected national papers from other countries on the internet.  It can be a quite refreshing exercise!  You get to know things about your own country that you're not allowed to know here.

To be honest I can't say that I've noticed the Metro's in-depth and incisive political analysis and its immense grasp and coverage of U.K. and international affairs.

I'm just curious though about this censorship that we have in our own papers. Just to make this clear to me - you read an article in a 'respected'  foreign newspaper, which tells you things about this country you didn't know. So far so good. Having discovered this thing that you didn't know about our country, did you read every British newspaper to make sure that it hasn't been published anywhere, or did you just assume that it has been deliberately censored?

I'd love to see some examples of this censorship and once you've provided them I can assure you that I for one will be writing to my own newspaper, or to the government, (whichever is ultimately responsible) to ask why we are being treated in this way.

Now assuming that it's been deliberately censored, whom do you think is reponsible? As I ask above, is it our government or is it the editors of our newspapers?

I don't want to argue with anyone about this but I believe that apart from sensitive material, which is not allowed into the public domain for reasons of national security, we have a fairly open society. British newspapers for example are usually the ones ferreting out the stories, not trying to hide them.



Edited by Frank Wilkinson 2006-12-18 10:44 AM
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 18 December 2006 2:06 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


50005000500020001000
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Well, Frank, yes and no.  Curates egg, really, isn't it? 

If one wanted to be really well informed one should, of course, ideally read several papers.  However, life is just too short. 

Over a long time spent train commuting, I have tried most of the broadsheets.  Pre Murdoch, I had a spell with the Times.  That degenerated under him, nay - it was wrecked!  It used to be respected as a "Document of Record", so impartial and accurate was it.  No longer!  Just pages of extensive and largely biased journalistic opinion. 

Tried the Telegraph, but found the subliminal censorship uncomfortable.  I don't know if it has changed with a non Conservative government, but its greatest sins were always ones of omission.  You'd read little of Pinochet's outrages for example, but many plaudits for his support.  To me, it just lacked balance, and was just too overtly a Torygraph. 

Tried the Guardian, but realised that for much of the week the supplements were abandoned unread.  I didn't really want a "Media Edition" and a "Teacher's Edition" or whatever.  They all get paid to do a job, the media types somewhat overpaid, and the teachers mostly seemed out of step with what I, as a parent of school age children, wanted from them.  Why should it be presumed that I wanted to read about their navel fluff each week? 

Then had a go at the FT and was very impressed, until they jacked the price up!  Also, the "pinkun" is a bit pretentious for my tastes.  Despite it being a very good newspaper, with excellent succinct analysis and reporting, and finding I could read it all the way up and all the way back home again, it is a bit of a "one up" status symbol.

Then some saintly soul introduced the Independent, which to me is rather akin to the old Times, though it doesn't quite have the authority.  Least worst, somehow.

As to investigative journalism: once upon a time maybe, but it is a dying service, more's the pity.  Few journalists now are allowed to stick their noses into the really grubby corners and poke around.  Too much proprietorial interest, too much advertising revenue at stake, too much threatening to ostracise the lobby correspendents if the paper digs dirt on government policy.

What I really, really, want is for just one journalist to tell me what, in the name of all that is wonderful, ever persuaded us to join the Americans in Iraq!  Not the theories, not the spin, but the clear unadulterated truth, which I strongly suspect is far murkier, and more unpalatable, than most of us want to believe.  Now that really would be a first - though almost certainly not for discussion here, I suspect!



Edited by Brian Kirby 2006-12-18 2:12 PM
usermom
Posted: 18 December 2006 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


A posting machine

Posts: 352
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Frank Wilkinson - 2006-12-18 10:39 AM

To be honest I can't say that I've noticed the Metro's in-depth and incisive political analysis and its immense grasp and coverage of U.K. and international affairs.

I'm just curious though about this censorship that we have in our own papers. Just to make this clear to me - you read an article in a 'respected'  foreign newspaper, which tells you things about this country you didn't know. So far so good. Having discovered this thing that you didn't know about our country, did you read every British newspaper to make sure that it hasn't been published anywhere, or did you just assume that it has been deliberately censored?

Well Frank, on the issue of the Metro, you made my point exactly.  You won't find an in depth and incisive political analysis.  Wonderful, isn't it?  A 15 minute read and I have covered the headlines for the day.  No biased opinions, no bloated, overpaid, cynical, pseudo-intellectual analyses, just the headlines.  For me, and perhaps just me, I find this delightfully refreshing.  Having said that, I was obviously too subtle in my comment as it was ever so slightly tongue in cheek.  Appologies.

As to my comments on bias and censorship, no, I don't carry a list around in my pocket as I personally don't care.  If you ignore the rubbish, it can't affect you.  But I have on several occasions thought "that certainly wasn't mentioned here in the UK press, that I noticed".  Sure, I don't read all the papers here.  And yeah, I could have missed it.  But have some fun and have a go yourself.  The first thing you'll notice about many articles about UK politics is the lack of spin.  Spin is one of the worst kinds of censorship.  It not only tries to hide the facts, it does it by replacing them with ideas and concepts in an attempt to deceive.  International press often don't have the luxury of goverment contacts and have to build a story from observation;  it sometimes adds clarity to the muddy pools deliberately created domestically.  Another thing you'll notice about happenings in the UK is that the Royal family gets up to a little more than we know!  And that some domestically sensitive news items are release days earlier internationally.

So, no, I'm not going to make a list for you, because I'm not interested, but if you are, take a look yourself.

Oh, and one last thing, exactly the same is true in reverse.  This is not a UK thing, all I'm saying is that sometimes you need to step back and look at other accounts of events to get the full picture. 

Don't believe me?  I actually don't mind



Edited by mom 2006-12-18 2:09 PM
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 18 December 2006 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


50005000500020001000
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Michael

I'm interested in which foreign papers one can access, and whether they have English language editions on the net.  Or is one confined just to the English speaking world?  If you find the time, a few suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

usermom
Posted: 18 December 2006 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


A posting machine

Posts: 352
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Brian, try some of these...

Australia:
http://www.theage.com.au/
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/

Canada:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/

USA:
http://www.nytimes.com/ 

I browse them on occasion.  Of course you won't see examples of my aforementioned comments immediately (necessarily), but every now and then you notice something.

If you look carefully at the two Aussie papers, you might see an ever so tiny bias in the reporting of the cricket at the moment

userFrank Wilkinson
Posted: 18 December 2006 3:10 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


I have the perfect combination. I read the Telegraph because it accords with my general outlook and because it's a good read, but I watch just the BBC news, which has to be a serious antidote to anything right wing!

It's not that I actually like the BBC news you understand, it's more that I can't stand the adverts on the other channels.

This is why I'm such an open minded, well rounded, compassionate and generally really loveable person. I was describes as this just recently and I'd like to thank my mother for her insight.

userDon Madge
Posted: 18 December 2006 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


Epic contributor

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Brian Kirby - 2006-12-18 2:18 PM

Michael

I'm interested in which foreign papers one can access, and whether they have English language editions on the net.  Or is one confined just to the English speaking world?  If you find the time, a few suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks.



Brian,

Here's a few I sometimes browse.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/

http://www.costablanca-news.com/

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/

http://www.sofiaecho.com/cat.php?catid=5

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/

Don
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 18 December 2006 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


50005000500020001000
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Frank Wilkinson - 2006-12-18 3:10 PM

I have the perfect combination. I read the Telegraph because it accords with my general outlook and because it's a good read, but I watch just the BBC news, which has to be a serious antidote to anything right wing!

It's not that I actually like the BBC news you understand, it's more that I can't stand the adverts on the other channels.

This is why I'm such an open minded, well rounded, compassionate and generally really loveable person. I was describes as this just recently and I'd like to thank my mother for her insight.

No, no, no, no, Frank.  You're getting it all wrong!  Auntie isn't politically biased, it's just become a government voicepiece.  Ever since they got into trouble when that rather astute reporter said the'yd sexed up the Iraq dossier (which of course we all now know they did) they've been afraid to say anything to upset Downing Street.  Won't matter who's in power, it's the establishment they won't take on.  At least not until a new DG, with real cojones, is appointed.  Since all the parties have now spotted how to avoid that kind of embarrasment, it isn't very likely, is it?

Come the next election, that may have even more serious repercussions than at present!

What you should be watching is the C4 news at 19:00.  Best news by far, I think.  Then, for a laugh, have a go at Newsnight.  If you arent too susceptiple to Paxophobia you'll go to bed laughing your head off!

Sleep tight



Edited by Brian Kirby 2006-12-18 5:03 PM
usermichele
Posted: 18 December 2006 5:33 PM
Subject: RE: The "other" m/home site
 


50005000500100100100100
Location: Rapido ..ask him what size







USA JAIL - SOME INTERESTING READING

Does anyone know the e-mail addresses of any politicians..? They need to read this

TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO, HE IS THE MARICOPA
COUNTY SHERIFF( ARIZONA ) AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

These are some of the reasons why:

Sheriff Joe Arpaio created the "tent city jail" to save Arizona from
spending tens of million of dollars on another expensive prison complex.

He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for
them.

He banned smoking and porno magazines in the jails, and took away their
weightlifting equipment and cut off all but "G" movies. He says: "they're in
jail to pay a debt to society not to build muscles so they can assault
innocent people when they leave."

He started chain gangs to use the inmates to do free work on county and city
projects and save taxpayer's money.

Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for
discrimination.

He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order
that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but
only allows the Disney channel and the weather channel.

When asked why the weather channel he replied: "so these morons will know
how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs."

He cut off coffee because it has zero nutritional value and is therefore a
waste of taxpayer money. When the inmates complained, he told them, "This
isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."

He also bought the Newt Gingrich lecture series on US history that he pipes
into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a
Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series that actually tells
the truth for a change would be welcome and that it might even explain why
95% of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.

With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just
set a new record for June 2nd), the Associated Press reports: About 2,000
inmates living in a barbed- wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa
County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their
government-issued pink boxer shorts.

On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing pink boxer shorts were chatting in the
tents, where temperatures reached 128 degrees. "This is hell. It feels like
we live in a furnace," said Ernesto Gonzales, an inmate for 2
years with 10 more to go. "It's inhumane."

Joe Arpaio, who makes his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches,
is not one bit sympathetic. "Criminals should be punished for their crimes -
not live in luxury until it's time for parole, only to go out and commit
more crimes so they can come back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy
things many taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves."

Wednesday he told all the inmates who were complaining of the heat in the
tents: "It's between 120 to 130 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living
in tents too, and they have to walk all day in the sun, wearing full
battle gear and get shot at, and they have not committed any crimes, so shut
your damned mouths!"

Way to go, Sheriff! If all prisons were like yours there would be a lot less
crime and we would not be in the current position of running out of prison
spaces.



So Guy's right or wrong ?




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