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Todays Labour Jewish Episode
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userantony1969
Posted: 7 March 2019 6:05 AM
Subject: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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They've voted to stay in for another month ... https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/jewish-labour-movement-votes-to-stay-affiliated-to-labour-for-another-month-1.481077 ... Bet Jeremys well happy ... Not ... Yuk
userantony1969
Posted: 7 March 2019 6:11 AM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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Only 100 Labour MPs out of nearly 250 wrote or asked The Jewish Labour Movement not to sever ties with Jeremys anti-Semites !!! ... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/05/margaret-hodge-corbyn-misled-me-over-antisemitism-labour ... Less than half of them after all the promises of love towards Jews less than half ask them to stay ... Wow ... A party run by anti-Semites and supported by a hell of a lot of anti-Semites ... Yuk
userjumpstart
Posted: 7 March 2019 7:59 AM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 
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Looking at the picture of Statue of Liberty with an “Alien” over its face and a Star of David on it, this doesn’t to me suggest anti semitesm. The only time I have agreed with Mr Jeremy. Anti Israel sentiment is not anti semitism.
userFast Pat
Posted: 7 March 2019 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 
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jumpstart - 2019-03-07 7:59 AM

Looking at the picture of Statue of Liberty with an “Alien” over its face and a Star of David on it, this doesn’t to me suggest anti semitesm. The only time I have agreed with Mr Jeremy. Anti Israel sentiment is not anti semitism.


It is according to Margaret Hodge on C4 news a couple of nights ago when she was asked directly if anti zionism was anti semitism. But it now at least demonstrates that most of this AS row has been created to shut down legitimate criticism of the Israeli state.

Similar play book being utilised in the US. I know a lot of Jewish folk who are equally horrified about the IDF actions in Palestine - those that want peace and a shared solution, who hate the way in which AS is being weaponised.
userpelmetman
Posted: 7 March 2019 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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Fast Pat - 2019-03-07 8:25 AM

Similar play book being utilised in the US. I know a lot of Jewish folk who are equally horrified about the IDF actions in Palestine - those that want peace and a shared solution, who hate the way in which AS is being weaponised.


Are you equally horrified when a Palestinian kills a Jew? ...........

Corbyn definitely isn't as he only visits the graves of Palestinians terrorists ........

userFast Pat
Posted: 7 March 2019 8:42 AM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 
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pelmetman - 2019-03-07 8:30 AM

Fast Pat - 2019-03-07 8:25 AM

Similar play book being utilised in the US. I know a lot of Jewish folk who are equally horrified about the IDF actions in Palestine - those that want peace and a shared solution, who hate the way in which AS is being weaponised.


Are you equally horrified when a Palestinian kills a Jew?



Yes.
userjumpstart
Posted: 7 March 2019 8:48 AM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 
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Not necessarily a Jew but an Israeli. Same as if an Israeli kills a Palestinian.
userpelmetman
Posted: 7 March 2019 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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Fast Pat - 2019-03-07 8:42 AM

pelmetman - 2019-03-07 8:30 AM

Fast Pat - 2019-03-07 8:25 AM

Similar play book being utilised in the US. I know a lot of Jewish folk who are equally horrified about the IDF actions in Palestine - those that want peace and a shared solution, who hate the way in which AS is being weaponised.


Are you equally horrified when a Palestinian kills a Jew?



Yes.


So why do you support Corbyn? ..........Who clearly isn't ........

userjumpstart
Posted: 7 March 2019 8:50 AM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 
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It’s a David and Goliath situation. There needs to be a Palestinian state.
userantony1969
Posted: 7 March 2019 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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jumpstart - 2019-03-07 7:59 AM

Looking at the picture of Statue of Liberty with an “Alien” over its face and a Star of David on it, this doesn’t to me suggest anti semitesm. The only time I have agreed with Mr Jeremy. Anti Israel sentiment is not anti semitism.


Nothing wrong with questioning Israel , its not anti-Semitic at all just like questioning Islam isnt that silly new much overused word Islamaphobic ... When you have a party and leader calling terrorist groups his friends and hes happy to lay flowers on the murderers of Jews graves thats anti-Semitic
userpelmetman
Posted: 7 March 2019 8:57 AM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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jumpstart - 2019-03-07 8:50 AM

It’s a David and Goliath situation. There needs to be a Palestinian state.


Perhaps if they stopped killing Israelis they might get one ...........

But seeing as they're backed by the Shia majority Iran who have sworn to destroy Israel, I'd say that's highly unlikely ........



userantony1969
Posted: 7 March 2019 9:04 AM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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pelmetman - 2019-03-07 8:57 AM

jumpstart - 2019-03-07 8:50 AM

It’s a David and Goliath situation. There needs to be a Palestinian state.


Perhaps if they stopped killing Israelis they might get one ...........

But seeing as they're backed by the Shia majority Iran who have sworn to destroy Israel, I'd say that's highly unlikely ........





Jeremy is 'friends' with those mothers who send their children packed with explosives to kill Jews ... Hes not anti-Semitic though
userjumpstart
Posted: 7 March 2019 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 
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Are these the same Jews whose snipers shoot reporters.?
userantony1969
Posted: 7 March 2019 10:53 AM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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Another busy day for Labours Jewish hatred ... https://news.sky.com/story/labour-could-be-guilty-of-unlawful-discrimination-over-antisemitism-11657450 ... Lordy
userantony1969
Posted: 7 March 2019 11:00 AM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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jumpstart - 2019-03-07 9:48 AM

Are these the same Jews whose snipers shoot reporters.?


War zones are obviously dangerous places ... Reporters have been injured or killed for years in such places ... Why is this one any different to you ???
userjumpstart
Posted: 7 March 2019 11:48 AM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 
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I agree ,no difference, just Palestinians fighting back against the people who threw them out of their homeland. Oh, wait a minute weren’t these people in Israel originally terrorists who fought against British occupation.
userpelmetman
Posted: 7 March 2019 12:18 PM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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jumpstart - 2019-03-07 11:48 AM

I agree ,no difference, just Palestinians fighting back against the people who threw them out of their homeland. Oh, wait a minute weren’t these people in Israel originally terrorists who fought against British occupation.


But who's homeland was it first? ..........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judaism_in_the_Land_of_Israel

Seems to me it was the Jews .......
userantony1969
Posted: 7 March 2019 12:44 PM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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jumpstart - 2019-03-07 11:48 AM

I agree ,no difference, just Palestinians fighting back against the people who threw them out of their homeland. Oh, wait a minute weren’t these people in Israel originally terrorists who fought against British occupation.


Your kinda going off course ... The Labour Party and Jeremys anti-Semitism here at home in Blighty is simply because they are Jewish ... The Jews in their own party resigning over anti-Semitism , those that need extra security at Labour Party conference and those that look like they are being discriminated against by The Labour Party dont live in Israel on any of the disputed land do they
userFast Pat
Posted: 7 March 2019 1:08 PM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 
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antony1969 - 2019-03-07 12:44 PM
Your kinda going off course ... The Labour Party and Jeremys anti-Semitism here at home in Blighty is simply because they are Jewish ... The Jews in their own party resigning over anti-Semitism , those that need extra security at Labour Party conference and those that look like they are being discriminated against by The Labour Party dont live in Israel on any of the disputed land do they


Weaponisation of AS against the left.

"Bernie Sanders Statement on Antisemitism:

"Anti-Semitism is a hateful and dangerous ideology which must be vigorously opposed in the United States and around the world.

We must not, however, equate anti-Semitism with legitimate criticism of the right-wing, Netanyahu government in Israel."

"Rather, we must develop an even-handed Middle East policy which brings Israelis and Palestinians together for a lasting peace.

What I fear is going on in the House now is an effort to target Congresswoman Omar as a way of stifling that debate. That's wrong."

Sanders’ father lost most members of his family in the holocaust.

Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar has been attacked for calling out AICOM the powerful Jewish lobby in the US, and it’s influence over US politicians. Omar, a Muslim, has been under constant attack for sticking to her guns on this issue, and both Republicans and senior members of her own Democratic Party have done everything from call her an antisemite, to suggest that she caused 9/11 and many have called for her to be removed from the Foreign Affairs committee for her view that the lobby’s influence over lawmakers prevents the US from supporting the rights of Palestinian people, and a peaceful solution to the Israeli/Palestine conflict."

userantony1969
Posted: 7 March 2019 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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Fast Pat - 2019-03-07 1:08 PM

antony1969 - 2019-03-07 12:44 PM
Your kinda going off course ... The Labour Party and Jeremys anti-Semitism here at home in Blighty is simply because they are Jewish ... The Jews in their own party resigning over anti-Semitism , those that need extra security at Labour Party conference and those that look like they are being discriminated against by The Labour Party dont live in Israel on any of the disputed land do they


Weaponisation of AS against the left.

"Bernie Sanders Statement on Antisemitism:

"Anti-Semitism is a hateful and dangerous ideology which must be vigorously opposed in the United States and around the world.

We must not, however, equate anti-Semitism with legitimate criticism of the right-wing, Netanyahu government in Israel."

"Rather, we must develop an even-handed Middle East policy which brings Israelis and Palestinians together for a lasting peace.

What I fear is going on in the House now is an effort to target Congresswoman Omar as a way of stifling that debate. That's wrong."

Sanders’ father lost most members of his family in the holocaust.

Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar has been attacked for calling out AICOM the powerful Jewish lobby in the US, and it’s influence over US politicians. Omar, a Muslim, has been under constant attack for sticking to her guns on this issue, and both Republicans and senior members of her own Democratic Party have done everything from call her an antisemite, to suggest that she caused 9/11 and many have called for her to be removed from the Foreign Affairs committee for her view that the lobby’s influence over lawmakers prevents the US from supporting the rights of Palestinian people, and a peaceful solution to the Israeli/Palestine conflict."



You haven't just quoted old Bernie ??? ... As for Omar even the Democrats have mixed views about her anti-Semitic ramblings ... You'll be quoting Linda Sarsour next ... Your desperate and not once have you condemned any Labour hatred of Jews ... Very telling
userFast Pat
Posted: 7 March 2019 1:42 PM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 
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Simple but beautiful dissection of the anti-semitism within Labour Party myth


"You might wonder why I, a philosopher, have been invited on to this panel. I guess the reason is I'm interested in and have published on the ways in which bulls**t beliefs - myths and prejudices - can get a grip on public thinking.

I wrote a book called Believing Bulls**t - How Not To Fall Into an Intellectual Black Hole which flags up some of the key signs that we are dealing with a with a myth or prejudice rather than rational belief.

So how, in particular do prejudices regarding women, black people, Jews and so on get started?

Well, once it's been suggested that a certain group have some 'problem' - that women have a bad driving problem, say, or Jews have a greed problem, it's usually not hard to find examples.

After all, inevitably, some women are terrible drivers. And inevitably, some Jewish people are greedy.

Indeed, once it's suggested there may be a 'problem', people will often start to find their own examples. Often, they'll notice the really emotionally arresting examples and then later be able to recite them with ease - a woman who caused an awful motorway pile-up that killed several children, for example.

Once this pattern of thought has set in - it's called confirmation bias - where we search only for positive instances to confirm what we already suspect is true - people can easily convince themselves of things that aren't true.

They may become so convinced, in fact, that if we present them with hard evidence that women are just as good - perhaps even better - drivers than men, they'll dismiss it out of hand. They'll insist it's just obvious that women are bad drivers - everyone knows women are bad drivers - that they can point to lots of examples of women being bad drivers.

And yet this supposed evidence that women have a 'bad driving problem' is of course entirely useless and ancedotal. Obviously some women really are very bad drivers. There's no denying that. But of course, that doesn't remotely justify the conclusion that 'women have a bad driving problem' - i.e. that women are worse drivers than are men.

I'm sure we all recognise such anecdote-driven patterns of thought are one of the main ways racial and other prejudices get a grip: including anti-semitism.

So, now let's consider the charge that Labour has an anti-semitism problem.

Public Opinion

It's now widely considered obvious that Labour has an anti-semitism problem - that levels of anti-semitism are higher in Labour, or higher on the Left - than elsewhere.

Indeed, many now suppose anti-semitism is rampant on the Left.

For example:

This summer 68 Rabbis signed a letter saying: "As British rabbis, it is with great regret that we find it necessary to write, yet antisemitism within sections of the Labour party has become so severe and widespread that we must speak out with one Jewish voice."

The Jerusalem Post' has claimed that 'Britain’s Labour Party has a major problem with rampant antisemitism.'

New York Post ran a leader that 'Britain's Left is melting down over rampant antisemitism'

This finger-pointing at the Left matters. In fact it may well influence the outcome of the next general election. Labour are increasingly viewed as toxic because of the this perpetually repeated allegation that it's now riven with anti-semitism.

The Evidence

What's the evidence supporting the allegation that Labour has an anti-semitism problem? For the most part it consists of a few hundred complaints to the Labour Party, out of well over half a million members. That's a small fraction of one percent of the membership.

And then there are various other alleged cases of left anti-semitism that have been featured very heavily in the media.

That's it. That's pretty much all the evidence. But of course this is, again, entirely anecdotal, cherry-picked evidence.

Citing such examples no more supports the allegation that 'Labour has an anti-semitism problem' than it supports the allegation that women have a bad driving problem.

This is not to say that there is no antisemitism in Labour - obviously there is. But the suggestion that the Left is riddled with anti-semitism is clearly entirely unjustified. Indeed, drawing that conclusion on the basis of that sort of evidence is a classic example of confirmation bias.

Actually there is plenty of much better quality evidence concerning levels anti-semitism on the Left. However, all this evidence flatly contradicts the claim that there's more anti-semitism in Labour or on the Left than there is elsewhere. For example:

· Jewish Policy Research - a Jewish think-tank - conducted an extensive survey looking into anti-semitism, including on the left (2017). They concluded, and I quote, 'antisemitism is no more prevalent on the left than in the general population'. That's a Jewish think-tank's conclusion.

· A Cross-Party Home Affairs Select Committee was tasked with looking into levels of anti-semitism in the UK (2017). It concluded, and I quote, '...there exists no reliable, empirical evidence to support the notion that there is a higher prevalence of antisemitic attitudes within the Labour Party than any other political party.'

· There is, further, yougov data on antisemitic attitudes that indicates antisemitic attitudes have actually *reduced* in Labour under Corbyn (2018).

· The Chakrabarti inquiry looked into the accusations of significant antisemitism in Labour and found no significant problem.

· In 2016, Channel 4 Dispatches programme did a 6 month undercover investigation of Momentum, looking for dirt, including anti-semitism. They found none at all. After six months of undercover investigation.

So, so far as I can see, all the available hard evidence not only fails to support the allegation that Labour has an anti-semitism problem - it directly contradicts that allegation.

Pretty much everyone agrees there are some anti-semites in Labour. Just as everyone agrees that some women are bad drivers. But is there a greater percentage than in the population at large, or in other parties?

Pointing to a bunch of emotive anecdotes supplied by the Press and on social media is not good evidence that there is. And the fact is that all the available hard evidence very strongly suggests there isn't.

Journalism

So how has this myth been generated? Journalists have played a key roll.

The real story regarding 'Labour's anti-semitism problem' is the story of how this myth about Labour being riddled with anti-semitism arose and came to so dominate the British media for so long - on front page after front page after front page - and with such potential significance for the outcome of the next general election.

A recent Birkbeck College London and Media Reform Coalition Research project into Press reporting on anti-semitism recently concluded that British media reporting of allegations of anti-semitism in Labour has involved, and I quote, "a persistent subversion of conventional news values"

In particular, they said, and I quote: "completely false claims were presented as fact, often without even the most basic challenge." Shockingly, the BBC were singled out as one of the very worst offenders.

Conclusion

We all have a moral duty to be vigilant and call out anti-semitism when we see it, but we also have an important moral duty to be careful, calm, and not shoot from hip and fire off accusations on the basis of obviously flimsy or nonexistent evidence.

Those who do fire off accusations cavalierly, without taking care with the evidence are, (i) are disrespecting the memory of the millions who were slaughtered by real antisemitism during the Holocaust, (ii) drawing our attention away from the real anti-semites in our ranks, (iii) crying wolf: making it more likely that genuine reports of a/s will not be believed.

Ironically, all this actually puts Jews at increased risk."
userantony1969
Posted: 7 March 2019 2:32 PM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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You'll say you believe the Shami inquiry next ... You are funny ... Why dont you instead quote some of those Labour MPs that have been voicing their concerns about the parties top table anti-Semitism ... Maybe even go as far as quoting party deputy Mr Watson ??? ... Doubt you will after all you joined the party because of its anti-Semite leader , that says more than your previously very long post ever could ... Yuk
userFast Pat
Posted: 7 March 2019 2:35 PM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 
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antony1969 - 2019-03-07 2:32 PM

You'll say you believe the Shami inquiry next ... You are funny ... Why dont you instead quote some of those Labour MPs that have been voicing their concerns about the parties top table anti-Semitism ... Maybe even go as far as quoting party deputy Mr Watson ??? ... Doubt you will after all you joined the party because of its anti-Semite leader , that says more than your previously very long post ever could ... Yuk


https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/baroness-warsi-i-cannot-tell-young-muslims-to-join-islamophobic-tory-party_uk_5c7ea8f7e4b020b54d7f408e?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly90LmNvL0V4VUlRMk5EN3I&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABRN7_n0xo-ACPAQVenbgxbR_wSDWdd_M0hvHURRJEfRLbypUyD9KG93BxKJEdAU5cer-S-V5F8gKwfXkypXkoEMn_ac-TH9P4MKgBffZIEsiFhtJbyLlAVbBpYuaLXbeU55juSpmFfFgeoUah7wNmPPFXq_JXh08Jj4z7DhnwQq
userFast Pat
Posted: 7 March 2019 5:56 PM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 
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On 6 March, campaign group Defend WikiLeaks shared a selection of largely unreported WikiLeaks cables, offering a rare insight into the Conservatives under David Cameron.

Notably, the cables show concern in Washington over ties between the Conservative Party and antisemitic parties in Europe.

The US describes David Cameron’s approach to foreign policy as: “unsure, inexperienced, oblique, and largely uncommitted”

According to a 2009 cable, Clinton side, Sidney Blumenthal suggested to Hillary that she “touch on the Conservative Party’s strange alliances with far right, anti-Semitic political parties on the continent” in an upcoming meeting with shadow foreign secretary William Hague.

Blumenthal also claimed Hague had been:

“disingenuous about the nature of the far right parties the Tories are aligned with in Europe. Nobody in the UK or Europe is fooled.”

Clinton’s aide was likely referring to the Conservative Party’s controversial ties with Michal Kaminski, the far-right Polish leader of the Conservatives’ caucus in the European parliament, and Roberts Zile, leader of the Latvian party For Fatherland and Freedom

https://www.thecanary.co/global/world-analysis/2019/03/07/wikileaks-cables-reveal-us-concern-at-conservative-ties-with-antisemitic-parties/amp/?fbclid=IwAR3pAj2KozMkkXkJzxQRkXoxmKSARt_NpakK7XwPyNFTSuoyJ72js3Q2M_I
userantony1969
Posted: 7 March 2019 6:10 PM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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Fast Pat - 2019-03-07 2:35 PM

antony1969 - 2019-03-07 2:32 PM

You'll say you believe the Shami inquiry next ... You are funny ... Why dont you instead quote some of those Labour MPs that have been voicing their concerns about the parties top table anti-Semitism ... Maybe even go as far as quoting party deputy Mr Watson ??? ... Doubt you will after all you joined the party because of its anti-Semite leader , that says more than your previously very long post ever could ... Yuk


https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/baroness-warsi-i-cannot-tell-young-muslims-to-join-islamophobic-tory-party_uk_5c7ea8f7e4b020b54d7f408e?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly90LmNvL0V4VUlRMk5EN3I&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABRN7_n0xo-ACPAQVenbgxbR_wSDWdd_M0hvHURRJEfRLbypUyD9KG93BxKJEdAU5cer-S-V5F8gKwfXkypXkoEMn_ac-TH9P4MKgBffZIEsiFhtJbyLlAVbBpYuaLXbeU55juSpmFfFgeoUah7wNmPPFXq_JXh08Jj4z7DhnwQq


Warsi ??? ... C'mon lets have someone without a Tory grudge ... Try again ... Still not condemning your parties almost Nazi stance towards Jews I see ... Your vile , like your girlfriend
usermalc d
Posted: 7 March 2019 8:12 PM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 
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pelmetman - 2019-03-07 12:18 PM

jumpstart - 2019-03-07 11:48 AM

I agree ,no difference, just Palestinians fighting back against the people who threw them out of their homeland. Oh, wait a minute weren’t these people in Israel originally terrorists who fought against British occupation.


But who's homeland was it first? ..........

..



Interesting question- but not really relevant.

If you could "prove" that YOUR ancestors used to live in California a thousand years ago - it doesn't mean you can go and claim it now.

userpelmetman
Posted: 7 March 2019 8:39 PM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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malc d - 2019-03-07 8:12 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-07 12:18 PM

jumpstart - 2019-03-07 11:48 AM

I agree ,no difference, just Palestinians fighting back against the people who threw them out of their homeland. Oh, wait a minute weren’t these people in Israel originally terrorists who fought against British occupation.


But who's homeland was it first? ..........

..



Interesting question- but not really relevant.

If you could "prove" that YOUR ancestors used to live in California a thousand years ago - it doesn't mean you can go and claim it now.



Its just as relevant, as they can claim first nation status just like the Indian nations in America or the Aborigines in Australia ........

The only difference is they have the armed forces to enforce their claim ..........

userantony1969
Posted: 8 March 2019 6:35 PM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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24 hours and no reports of anymore Labour Party Jewish hatred ... Must be some kinda record
userantony1969
Posted: 10 March 2019 7:45 PM
Subject: RE: Todays Labour Jewish Episode
 


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Please not more Labour Jewish hatred bad news ... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/09/labour-officials-minimised-accusations-anti-semitism-against/ ... Lordy
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