chas Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Have just found Mr Blairs reply to road charging in my spam folder, so at least that shows its working properly! >:-) It almost seems convincing that the whole issue is just to test the waters, to see what the reaction may be. What he does not seem to understand is the complete lack of belief people think of his promises, and no mention of the fact that motorists are already paying their way by the highest taxation in Europe to use their vehicles. Once Manchester/ Birmingham get the go ahead to try out this stealth tax , there will be no going back. chas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Well while it is another tax and I for one do not agree with it unless they were to abolish road fund licence and drastically cut the fuel duty, it can hardly be called a "stealth tax" can it? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Chapman Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 What concerns me more is the comments by Dr Stephen Ladyman on a recent TV debate. He indicated that the aim is to reduce vehicle traffic/journeys by 40% but where is the public transport that will support the massive increase in demand. He said that the study will try to identify ways of collecting the charges without monitoring drivers movements and claimed that there are three ways in which this can be achieved. The only way I can clearly see to do this is by using road tolls as in France. No mention of the cost of implementing any of the proposed methods and careful avoidance of telling motorists what their set up cost will be. This has been calculated as as much as £600 per vehicle including fitting depending on system used. He talked about any scheme being revenue neutral presumably by off-setting the charges by a reduction or withdrawal of Road Tax and Fuel Revenue. Oh Yeah? If fuel revenue is reduced/withdrawn then what system will be put in place to ensure that foreign vehicles visiting this country pay their fair share or will we have to subsidise foreign vehicles using our roads. There has been little comment about fairness of a system that charges the same mileage rate whether one is driving a small economical and eco friendly vehicle or a huge gas guzzling monster. Personally a pay per mile would suit me as I do a relatively small number of miles per year and mostly in off-peak hours so I would probably be better off but many have no choice but to commute at peak hours (Flexi-time working is unsuitable for many jobs) and on what will be the most expensive roads. Why do I get the feeling that despite the objections of1.6 million respondents to the petition the system will go ahead anyway? Regards, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Look.................Nanny Blair knows what's best for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empress Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 We are awaiting our reply from President Blair but not with any excitment. Empress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Now there's my claim to fame and Randonner will back me up ?. shouldn't say that But randonere was actually talking two weeks ago witha friend of mine whom is Cherry Blairs Cousin in France... Cheery Blair being Nee cherry Booth .....Sylvia & husband very kindly made a phone call for me. perhaps i should get him to have a word in his cousins shell like ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 If as suggested it will mean that ALL motorist will be paying, then at least those evading RFL will not be subsided by the rest of us. The only way I can see it being acceptable by the motorist is to :- 1 Drastically reduce RFL 2 Adjust the Fuel tax level. This way everyone will pay proportional to the volume of mileage they do. Also if we choose to have a high fuel consumption vehicle again we will pay proportionally higher. This would also have the benefit of encouraging high fuel consumption vehicle owners to run a second small car or use public transport when they can. The only problem with any system change is that the treasury will want more income generated, whilst trying to convince us all that it will Not cost us any more. Also any change will have a direct impact on inflation as the majority of Goods are now transported by Road Haulage, who will bear the brunt of the change and their costs will finish up being passed on to the Consumer. Before everyone pulls this to shreds I accept there will be some specific areas which will need to be determined, i.e. Electric vehicle, etc. Flicka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 People like us don't find it easy to run a small vehicle cant fit a wheelcahir in it ? So iguess where paying all round .. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I think we should charge like they do abroad (tolls) to use the roads all the waggons/cars ect that come to this country & use it for free. I live near Trafford Park ,they park up in Morrisons (pantecnicans) car park for the night (dont pay we have to £1 for 2hrs) we have to pay the petrol prices here, they dont they have 2xtanks so they dont have to pay the price of petrol over here Its all wrong but thats what you get for being 'british' BTW does Blair + 2 Jags pay for petrol+road charges to get into London????. I can sum them all up in one word T***ers he he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Chapman Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Hello Flicka, You make good points especially about a reduction in RFL. The problem I see with RFL is that it adds to the standing cost of the vehicle, standing costs being Insurance, Depreciation, Loss of Interest on Capital, Interest on Loans and Annual Servicing to maintain the vehicle warranty etc. Can you really blame anyone who is already paying these standing costs for wanting to use their vehicle. The cost is an add on to Public Transport Fares when considering cost per mile but a reduction of cost per mile when using the vehicle. The problem with adding the tax to fuel cost is that this will hit those who have to use their vehicle especially those who live in a rural community where public transport is often not available. Road pricing will probably be preferable to them as they will be doing most of their journeys on "Low Charge" roads. Dealing with Michele's point about larger vehicles having to be used for Disabled persons. There is already some concessions in Free Road Fund Licence and low or free rates on Congestion Charges and Bridge Tolls and of course for the severely disabled VAT free vehicles, Motability and DLA. Perhaps the powers that be will also bring in reduced Road Pricing rates for the disabled if and when implemented. Regards, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjphillips Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 If a higher charge is brought in to use the more conjested routes ,I dread to think how busy the quieter routes & the normally empty country lanes will be with people eventually finding other routes to avoid paying. Just imagine how many accidents there will be on the narrow single track lanes such as those around Devon or Cornwall. Most accidents are head-on as it is with people rounding bends too fast & no use of the horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 All other aspects aside, what really worries me is the total lack of opposition from any of the other parties. Without this pressure this goverment seems to have a free hand to do exactly what it pleases, and I doubt that whatever protest we as individuals or organised groups make will make the slightest difference. Freedom of movement has always been a basic right in this country, but by simply pricing us off the road and failing to provide a viable alternative, all thats left is for them to do is censor information and its welcome to the politbureau. This may seem far fetched, but look at the political bias shown by the BBC as compared to other news channels. Early days yet, but once you control information you control the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Agreed Howie - I will fight the nonsense all the way - not least the cost of the satellite monitoring system it will require. I thought we were supposed to be polluting less not chucking more tin-cans into near space? Also - my son (who is a techy who talks in techy-tongues) says that within weeks of the system being introduced you will be able to buy a gadget that turns your system off or fools the system into thinking you are somewhere else. His point being when has ANY government computer system worked as it should? Just look at the CSA and the NHS computer systems!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 howie - 2007-02-25 11:56 PM All other aspects aside, what really worries me is the total lack of opposition from any of the other parties. Without this pressure this goverment seems to have a free hand to do exactly what it pleases, and I doubt that whatever protest we as individuals or organised groups make will make the slightest difference. . Just possibly there is no opposition because they are ALL of a like mind and just letting Blair take the flack before he departs. Then whoever is in power when it is introduced will just blame him. It's happened before and will happen again. A common ploy used by all parties, IMHO. Flicka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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