snowie Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 I’ve just seen and heard Tony Blair on BbC News, 11:20 Friday. I accept his failings on Iraq. But he still has more charisma, and authority that any politician currently charged with determining our future. Snowie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 He is certainly a good communicator and his arguments are by no means without merit. But he was so discredited after he left office that I doubt anyone holds him in much respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 I wonder how much respect TM will retain Snowie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 He might have charisma ... Authority no ... He has the ability in uniting many remoaners and leave voters who would like him to shut up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 I would rather listen to or read his thoughts on most things than some of the ilinformed rubbish I’ve read over the last 2 years, That’s free speech in a democracy Snowie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 A lot of the pollys from yesteryear are making a shed load more sense than the rabbit in the headlights pollys that are actually running the show. Tony does talk a lot of sense but too many people hate him. All we have now is one faction of headbangers who are like a cult and have no care whatsoever for the prosperity of the nation as long as they get their suicidal version of Brexit, then we have the two the party line Mays deal backers who are pointless as its going nowhere, then we have the opposition who had a golden opportunity to be a proper opposition but their sole aim is to get into power rather than focusing on saving the nation. None of them will ever agree. The public will have to sort it out one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 snowie - 2018-12-14 12:56 PM I would rather listen to or read his thoughts on most things than some of the ilinformed rubbish I’ve read over the last 2 years, That’s free speech in a democracy Snowie We are all entitled to read the thoughts of whoever we like and I absolutely back that ... Personally for me I believe Tony is damaged goods as are many others from his government Mandleson and Campbell to name a couple ... I believe the country and definitely Labour have moved on from his time and what his thoughts are to many is of no interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 I have supported and voted Labour since about 1966, and would support them now, but not with a leadership that is still trying to implement a 1970’s agenda. New Labour would have moved on and forwards, not backwards. NOW Labour? If there were to be a general election Labour would not win the middle ground, even with the Tories in the mess they are in. Unless the right wing of the Tory party is put back in its box Snowie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Lord Heseltine gave an interesting interview to C4 news covering Brexit, Theresa May, and poverty. He makes some very valid points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 snowie - 2018-12-14 1:55 PM I have supported and voted Labour since about 1966, and would support them now, but not with a leadership that is still trying to implement a 1970’s agenda. New Labour would have moved on and forwards, not backwards. NOW Labour? If there were to be a general election Labour would not win the middle ground, even with the Tories in the mess they are in. Unless the right wing of the Tory party is put back in its box Snowie Must be very frustrating to be a lifelong Labour voter with Corbyns madness taking your party back to the dark ages ... It's interesting you mention Corbyn trying to take us back in time as that's what some remoaners accuse Brexit voters of yet they are perfectly happy to do so with Corbyn ... Hypocrisy again I suppose ... I believe you are right with Labour and the middle ground ... Where does a lifelong Labour turn and go if he doesn't vote Labour , Vince Cable ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 Well I may have to swallow hard and vote with my conscience. Living in a county where a pig with a blue rosette on would probably win makes my vote of questionable value anyway. Maybe proportional representation will make a comeback in a mainstream manifesto. Snowie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 snowie - 2018-12-14 4:18 PM Maybe proportional representation will make a comeback in a mainstream manifesto. Snowie No chance of that Snowie. (Well - at least not until you can persuade turkeys to vote for Xmas ). ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 snowie - 2018-12-14 1:55 PM I have supported and voted Labour since about 1966, and would support them now, but not with a leadership that is still trying to implement a 1970’s agenda. New Labour would have moved on and forwards, not backwards. NOW Labour? If there were to be a general election Labour would not win the middle ground, even with the Tories in the mess they are in. Unless the right wing of the Tory party is put back in its box Snowie I once made the mistake of voting for Blair :$ ......... I should of read up on history of Socialist warmongers earlier *-) ......... So next election I'll be voting UKIP again unless the Tories put a proper right winger in charge ;-) ......... Which could mean Corbyn by default 8-) ........... Then the UK would discover that there "are" worse things than a No Deal Brexit >:-) ........... https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-french-use-threat-of-jeremy-corbyn-to-lure-businesses-to-paris-bfvr9jdn0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 snowie - 2018-12-14 4:18 PM Maybe proportional representation will make a comeback in a mainstream manifesto. Snowie As a UKIP voter I agree (lol) .......... https://www.indy100.com/article/heres-how-the-election-results-would-look-under-a-proportional-voting-system--gJenQmaW2gW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-15 8:44 AM...……………….Then the UK would discover that there "are" worse things than a No Deal Brexit >:-) ........... Well yes, if you're prepared to count a return of the plague as one of the risks! :-D The great beauty of governments is that they can be chucked out in five years time if they make a mess of things. But, you can't chuck out Brexit. It is a one off decision that everyone will have to live with for at least 25 years, probably longer. We have one chance to get it right for the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-15 8:48 AM snowie - 2018-12-14 4:18 PM Maybe proportional representation will make a comeback in a mainstream manifesto. Snowie As a UKIP voter I agree (lol) .......... As a voter I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-12-15 6:09 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-15 8:44 AM...……………….Then the UK would discover that there "are" worse things than a No Deal Brexit >:-) ........... Well yes, if you're prepared to count a return of the plague as one of the risks! :-D The great beauty of governments is that they can be chucked out in five years time if they make a mess of things. But, you can't chuck out Brexit. It is a one off decision that everyone will have to live with for at least 25 years, probably longer. We have one chance to get it right for the long term. So?..........I've had to live with other folks decision for 44 years :-| ........... BTW we really were lied too back then....... we were asked if we wanted to join a "Common Market" not an Federalist Empire *-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted December 15, 2018 Author Share Posted December 15, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-15 6:48 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-12-15 6:09 PM So?..........I've had to live with other folks decision for 44 years :-| ........... BTW we really were lied too back then....... we were asked if we wanted to join a "Common Market" not an Federalist Empire *-) .......... It won’t go federal, not enough interest in the European populace. And if uk governments of all persuasions had been more involved and positive over those 44 years we would be in a better place, us and the eu. Oh, and if the general population had been more interested it would have been even better. But self interest is a very strong motivation, and it wasn’t going to happen. Snowie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 snowie - 2018-12-15 8:03 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-15 6:48 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-12-15 6:09 PM So?..........I've had to live with other folks decision for 44 years :-| ........... BTW we really were lied too back then....... we were asked if we wanted to join a "Common Market" not an Federalist Empire *-) .......... It won’t go federal, not enough interest in the European populace. And if uk governments of all persuasions had been more involved and positive over those 44 years we would be in a better place, us and the eu. Oh, and if the general population had been more interested it would have been even better. But self interest is a very strong motivation, and it wasn’t going to happen. Snowie Too late Snowie it already is..... in all but name *-) .......... "The European Union, which operates through a hybrid system of intergovernmentalism and supranationalism, is not officially a federation – though various academic observers regard it as having the characteristics of a federal system." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalisation_of_the_European_Union Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-15 6:48 PM So?..........I've had to live with other folks decision for 44 years :-| ........... BTW we really were lied too back then....... we were asked if we wanted to join a "Common Market" not an Federalist Empire *-) .......... snowie - 2018-12-15 8:03 PM It won’t go federal, not enough interest in the European populace. And if uk governments of all persuasions had been more involved and positive over those 44 years we would be in a better place, us and the eu. Oh, and if the general population had been more interested it would have been even better. But self interest is a very strong motivation, and it wasn’t going to happen. Snowie Entirely agree with that Alan. We've always been a "little bit in - little bit out" cherry picking bits and pieces we want without ever fully committing.....still doing exactly the same and then we wonder why other EU members are so contemptuous over our self serving arrogance. Some folk still think we have an Empire to rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-12-15 11:16 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-15 6:48 PM So?..........I've had to live with other folks decision for 44 years :-| ........... BTW we really were lied too back then....... we were asked if we wanted to join a "Common Market" not an Federalist Empire *-) .......... snowie - 2018-12-15 8:03 PM It won’t go federal, not enough interest in the European populace. And if uk governments of all persuasions had been more involved and positive over those 44 years we would be in a better place, us and the eu. Oh, and if the general population had been more interested it would have been even better. But self interest is a very strong motivation, and it wasn’t going to happen. Snowie Entirely agree with that Alan. We've always been a "little bit in - little bit out" cherry picking bits and pieces we want without ever fully committing.....still doing exactly the same and then we wonder why other EU members are so contemptuous over our self serving arrogance. Some folk still think we have an Empire to rule. So if you Remoaners manage to prevent Brexit you think that'll change? (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... If the EU thought the UK wasn't positive before ;-) ......... Imagine what we'll be like if they manage to make us stay >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted December 16, 2018 Author Share Posted December 16, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-16 8:08 AM Bulletguy - 2018-12-15 11:16 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-15 6:48 PM So?..........I've had to live with other folks decision for 44 years :-| ........... BTW we really were lied too back then....... we were asked if we wanted to join a "Common Market" not an Federalist Empire *-) .......... snowie - 2018-12-15 8:03 PM It won’t go federal, not enough interest in the European populace. And if uk governments of all persuasions had been more involved and positive over those 44 years we would be in a better place, us and the eu. Oh, and if the general population had been more interested it would have been even better. So if you Remoaners manage to prevent Brexit you think that'll change? (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... If the EU thought the UK wasn't positive before ;-) ......... Imagine what we'll be like if they manage to make us stay >:-) ......... My belief is that the overall age profile of the country is reducing progressively and inexorably, and that our kids, 16 upwards, will be a damned sight more positive about Europe than you Brexiters. Across Europe and globally the young will make a difference. And we, the older generation should give them every opportunity. Snowie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 snowie - 2018-12-16 8:23 AM pelmetman - 2018-12-16 8:08 AM Bulletguy - 2018-12-15 11:16 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-15 6:48 PM So?..........I've had to live with other folks decision for 44 years :-| ........... BTW we really were lied too back then....... we were asked if we wanted to join a "Common Market" not an Federalist Empire *-) .......... snowie - 2018-12-15 8:03 PM It won’t go federal, not enough interest in the European populace. And if uk governments of all persuasions had been more involved and positive over those 44 years we would be in a better place, us and the eu. Oh, and if the general population had been more interested it would have been even better. So if you Remoaners manage to prevent Brexit you think that'll change? (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... If the EU thought the UK wasn't positive before ;-) ......... Imagine what we'll be like if they manage to make us stay >:-) ......... My belief is that the overall age profile of the country is reducing progressively and inexorably, and that our kids, 16 upwards, will be a damned sight more positive about Europe than you Brexiters. Across Europe and globally the young will make a difference. And we, the older generation should give them every opportunity. Snowie Im with you Snowie ... In France and Italy the young vote for my kinda people Le Pen and Salvini and the numbers are growing ... By the way the young also vote in large numbers here in Blighty for a fella who's turned you off your life long party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted December 16, 2018 Author Share Posted December 16, 2018 Some truth there Anthony, and the rest of us young and old need to be very vigilant. If the ultra right are allowed to have their say without contradiction we will all regret it Snowie Ps, beats me why so many young women support Jeremy, do they not have positive male role models in their lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 snowie - 2018-12-16 8:23 AM pelmetman - 2018-12-16 8:08 AM Bulletguy - 2018-12-15 11:16 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-15 6:48 PM So?..........I've had to live with other folks decision for 44 years :-| ........... BTW we really were lied too back then....... we were asked if we wanted to join a "Common Market" not an Federalist Empire *-) .......... snowie - 2018-12-15 8:03 PM It won’t go federal, not enough interest in the European populace. And if uk governments of all persuasions had been more involved and positive over those 44 years we would be in a better place, us and the eu. Oh, and if the general population had been more interested it would have been even better. So if you Remoaners manage to prevent Brexit you think that'll change? (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... If the EU thought the UK wasn't positive before ;-) ......... Imagine what we'll be like if they manage to make us stay >:-) ......... My belief is that the overall age profile of the country is reducing progressively and inexorably, and that our kids, 16 upwards, will be a damned sight more positive about Europe than you Brexiters. Across Europe and globally the young will make a difference. And we, the older generation should give them every opportunity. Snowie As the demographics for the referendum shows, the Young & Dumb usually get wiser with age :D .......... .......but some will always vote for Labour 8-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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