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U.K. exports to EU
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userCurtainRaiser
Posted: 22 June 2022 8:27 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Forum master

Posts: 3143
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Gremlin - 2022-06-22 8:09 PM

CurtainRaiser - 2022-06-22 7:46 PM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

malc d - 2022-06-22 5:22 PM

Tracker - 2022-06-22 4:33 PM

When did you last see a railway worker actually working?



What a stupid remark.

If they never did any work - striking wouldn't affect anybody.



It’s not stupid at all.

They were paid £16BILLION to keep the railways viable during Covid Lockdown. YES! £16 F*****G BILLION!!

No Furlough for them - not even 80% of basic salary!! They got the full blown lot!

Now they want to Pee all over this poor people that either had to manage on 80% of basic wage or lost their job!!

Not to mention A LEVEL STUDENTS whose whole life could be affected by these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.

As for what happens next - WFH is viable and beneficial.

Train strikes are the out of touch desperately trying to inflict pain on the country - whilst the Country actually will leave them behind.

As I have said previously - the RMT are like Turkeys voting for Christmas - and the Labour Party right up there on the same truck to the abattoir.


And with that £16 billion they siphoned off £500 million in "profits" as dividends during a pandemic. Meanwhile the staff enjoyed a pay freeze for two years.

In the last 12 years due to Tory party policies real term wages have shrunk with total pay growing at a slower rate than inflation. How would you feel if your standard of living was going backwards? What would you do to look after your family?

Besides I thought we were supposed to be a high wage economy now?


Well the jobs market is buoyant with more jobs available than unemployed. It may take a while to filter through but the benefit of not having a surfeit of EU workers being paid peanuts by unscrupulous firms who - thanks to this - considered the MINIMUM wage to be the maximum they needed to pay.

Nobody said leaving the EU would be easy - but on this point - the Brexiteers were right. Just look at the reality! More jobs than people to fill them. Employers having to pay people their worth - not the minimum the law allows.

I don’t mind people wanting more pay - and yes - inflation will require a pay rise of a substantial amount. That is why the latest ONS report data is so encouraging.

What is disappointing is the RMT taking a political stance and holding lots of other workers to ransom rather than negotiate a good pay deal in return for introducing more modern working practices.

It’s a political stunt by Labour and the RMT to demand the Government enter the negotiations - why on earth should they after giving £16BILLION to keep rail workers in jobs moving trains about with no passengers on them due to Lockdown?

As for Shareholders - I suggest you increase you education a tad to include the role of the Shareholder and how they fund a company, it’s expansion and growth and how if the venture all goes pear shaped they are lucky to get back a few pence in the £ from their investment.

The Soviet Union tried a different model where there were no Shareholders - the State owned everything. In return we saw the Lada and the Trabant and suffered the (literal) fallout from Chernobyl.


Remind me again, what companies own the UK rail companies and where they are based?
usermalc d
Posted: 22 June 2022 8:46 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Legendary contributor

Posts: 9462
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Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

malc d - 2022-06-22 5:22 PM

Tracker - 2022-06-22 4:33 PM

When did you last see a railway worker actually working?



What a stupid remark.

If they never did any work - striking wouldn't affect anybody.



It’s not stupid at all.



.



So - if you agree with Tracker that railway workers don't do any work - who drives the trains, and maintains the tracks, when they are not on strike ?



Edited by malc d 2022-06-22 8:47 PM
userGremlin
Posted: 22 June 2022 8:48 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 940
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CurtainRaiser - 2022-06-22 8:27 PM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 8:09 PM

CurtainRaiser - 2022-06-22 7:46 PM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

malc d - 2022-06-22 5:22 PM

Tracker - 2022-06-22 4:33 PM

When did you last see a railway worker actually working?



What a stupid remark.

If they never did any work - striking wouldn't affect anybody.



It’s not stupid at all.

They were paid £16BILLION to keep the railways viable during Covid Lockdown. YES! £16 F*****G BILLION!!

No Furlough for them - not even 80% of basic salary!! They got the full blown lot!

Now they want to Pee all over this poor people that either had to manage on 80% of basic wage or lost their job!!

Not to mention A LEVEL STUDENTS whose whole life could be affected by these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.

As for what happens next - WFH is viable and beneficial.

Train strikes are the out of touch desperately trying to inflict pain on the country - whilst the Country actually will leave them behind.

As I have said previously - the RMT are like Turkeys voting for Christmas - and the Labour Party right up there on the same truck to the abattoir.


And with that £16 billion they siphoned off £500 million in "profits" as dividends during a pandemic. Meanwhile the staff enjoyed a pay freeze for two years.

In the last 12 years due to Tory party policies real term wages have shrunk with total pay growing at a slower rate than inflation. How would you feel if your standard of living was going backwards? What would you do to look after your family?

Besides I thought we were supposed to be a high wage economy now?


Well the jobs market is buoyant with more jobs available than unemployed. It may take a while to filter through but the benefit of not having a surfeit of EU workers being paid peanuts by unscrupulous firms who - thanks to this - considered the MINIMUM wage to be the maximum they needed to pay.

Nobody said leaving the EU would be easy - but on this point - the Brexiteers were right. Just look at the reality! More jobs than people to fill them. Employers having to pay people their worth - not the minimum the law allows.

I don’t mind people wanting more pay - and yes - inflation will require a pay rise of a substantial amount. That is why the latest ONS report data is so encouraging.

What is disappointing is the RMT taking a political stance and holding lots of other workers to ransom rather than negotiate a good pay deal in return for introducing more modern working practices.

It’s a political stunt by Labour and the RMT to demand the Government enter the negotiations - why on earth should they after giving £16BILLION to keep rail workers in jobs moving trains about with no passengers on them due to Lockdown?

As for Shareholders - I suggest you increase you education a tad to include the role of the Shareholder and how they fund a company, it’s expansion and growth and how if the venture all goes pear shaped they are lucky to get back a few pence in the £ from their investment.

The Soviet Union tried a different model where there were no Shareholders - the State owned everything. In return we saw the Lada and the Trabant and suffered the (literal) fallout from Chernobyl.


Remind me again, what companies own the UK rail companies and where they are based?


Yes! - it’s crazy - but of the 30 odd rail companies- only a handful are still U.K. owned. And other European State owned Railway operators own the rest.

But whoever owns them - the principle is the same. The Shareholders invest the money, their capital is at risk if it all goes pear shaped - and in return for that risk, the company issues Dividends and if the Shareholders approve the management plan - profits go up as do the Share price.

Share ownership is open to all - we now live in a Global economy - and thanks to Brexit we can take more of an advantage of that.

Land Rover Jaguar is now owned by Tata of India.

British Airways took over Iberia.

You really do strike me as being very parochial. Not a good “look” I would suggest…….

userGremlin
Posted: 22 June 2022 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 940
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malc d - 2022-06-22 8:46 PM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

malc d - 2022-06-22 5:22 PM

Tracker - 2022-06-22 4:33 PM

When did you last see a railway worker actually working?



What a stupid remark.

If they never did any work - striking wouldn't affect anybody.



It’s not stupid at all.



.



So - if you agree with Tracker that railway workers don't do any work - who drives the trains, and maintains the tracks, when they are not on strike ?



Oh god - another Troll attack - selective editing - did you loose your moral compass or were you born without one?

I never said I agreed with Tracker that a railway staff do nothing.

Please read what I actually said.

I know you find this difficult but do try as it stops you looking a (.)

What I actually said was that the Government paid them £16BILLION to move empty trains about.

Did you go to school?


Edited by Gremlin 2022-06-22 8:55 PM
userGremlin
Posted: 22 June 2022 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 940
50010010010010025


Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

malc d - 2022-06-22 5:22 PM

Tracker - 2022-06-22 4:33 PM

When did you last see a railway worker actually working?



What a stupid remark.

If they never did any work - striking wouldn't affect anybody.



It’s not stupid at all.

They were paid £16BILLION to keep the railways viable during Covid Lockdown. YES! £16 F*****G BILLION!!

No Furlough for them - not even 80% of basic salary!! They got the full blown lot!

Now they want to Pee all over this poor people that either had to manage on 80% of basic wage or lost their job!!

Not to mention A LEVEL STUDENTS whose whole life could be affected by these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.

As for what happens next - WFH is viable and beneficial.

Train strikes are the out of touch desperately trying to inflict pain on the country - whilst the Country actually will leave them behind.

As I have said previously - the RMT are like Turkeys voting for Christmas - and the Labour Party right up there on the same truck to the abattoir.


The total of my ACTUAL wording.
userJohn52
Posted: 23 June 2022 4:42 AM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 


The special one

Posts: 11680
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Location: Pissindoon, Scotland


Tracker - 2022-06-22 7:37 PM

Always a good idea of tribal non entities for a really convincing statement - when you have nothing worthwhile to say resort to name calling, personal insults, a distorted past based on guesses - really convincing.


So thats exactly what you are doing
userJohn52
Posted: 23 June 2022 4:42 AM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 


The special one

Posts: 11680
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Location: Pissindoon, Scotland


Tracker - 2022-06-22 7:37 PM

Always a good idea of tribal non entities for a really convincing statement - when you have nothing worthwhile to say resort to name calling, personal insults, a distorted past based on guesses - really convincing.


So thats exactly what you are doing
userJohn52
Posted: 23 June 2022 4:46 AM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 


The special one

Posts: 11680
500050001000500100252525
Location: Pissindoon, Scotland


Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.


Just to be clear - are you talking about the workers, or the bosses on over 20 times the worker's pay?
userGremlin
Posted: 23 June 2022 7:35 AM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 940
50010010010010025


John52 - 2022-06-23 4:46 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.


Just to be clear - are you talking about the workers, or the bosses on over 20 times the worker's pay?


Generically I’m talking about both as only a really stupid person ignore the commuters and other rail passengers who undoubtedly can be both.

How typical that you:-

A) label people “workers and bosses” - my god you are straight out of an Arthur Scargill tribute band!

B) ignore the travelling public that use the trains. - whoever these people are - the RMT are treating them with contempt.
userCurtainRaiser
Posted: 23 June 2022 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Forum master

Posts: 3143
2000100010025


Gremlin - 2022-06-23 7:35 AM

John52 - 2022-06-23 4:46 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.


Just to be clear - are you talking about the workers, or the bosses on over 20 times the worker's pay?


Generically I’m talking about both as only a really stupid person ignore the commuters and other rail passengers who undoubtedly can be both.

How typical that you:-

A) label people “workers and bosses” - my god you are straight out of an Arthur Scargill tribute band!

B) ignore the travelling public that use the trains. - whoever these people are - the RMT are treating them with contempt.


It is interesting to note where public support for the strike is strongest. Note also how support increased once the reasons for the strikes were explained, the government originally were busy saying how much train drivers earned, when train drivers weren't striking or members of the RMT.

As we move towards further strikes across more public services it's worth considering why public sector pay hasn't kept up with the other public sector workers MPs?



(FB_IMG_1655929186484.jpg)



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userGremlin
Posted: 23 June 2022 8:38 AM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 940
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CurtainRaiser - 2022-06-23 8:25 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-23 7:35 AM

John52 - 2022-06-23 4:46 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.


Just to be clear - are you talking about the workers, or the bosses on over 20 times the worker's pay?


Generically I’m talking about both as only a really stupid person ignore the commuters and other rail passengers who undoubtedly can be both.

How typical that you:-

A) label people “workers and bosses” - my god you are straight out of an Arthur Scargill tribute band!

B) ignore the travelling public that use the trains. - whoever these people are - the RMT are treating them with contempt.


It is interesting to note where public support for the strike is strongest. Note also how support increased once the reasons for the strikes were explained, the government originally were busy saying how much train drivers earned, when train drivers weren't striking or members of the RMT.

As we move towards further strikes across more public services it's worth considering why public sector pay hasn't kept up with the other public sector workers MPs?


Meanwhile:-

https://www.bbc.com/news/61840077
userJohn52
Posted: 23 June 2022 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 


The special one

Posts: 11680
500050001000500100252525
Location: Pissindoon, Scotland


Gremlin - 2022-06-23 7:35 AM

John52 - 2022-06-23 4:46 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.


Just to be clear - are you talking about the workers, or the bosses on over 20 times the worker's pay?


Generically I’m talking about both as only a really stupid person ignore the commuters and other rail passengers who undoubtedly can be both.

How typical that you:-

A) label people “workers and bosses” - my god you are straight out of an Arthur Scargill tribute band!

B) ignore the travelling public that use the trains. - whoever these people are - the RMT are treating them with contempt.


Nice distraction there - change the subject to what name to call them
If you don't call them 'workers and bosses' what do you call them and why is it so important?
Incidentally I am no fan of Arthur Scargill
He talked about the miners employer as though it was a grotesque Victorian Capitalist instead of the general public. Posed as a Socialist but it was all about getting more from the public purse for themselves. Or as my mate put it -
"(Scargill) started with a big union and a small house, and finished with a small union and a big house"
But thats by the way.

In the negotiations the workers (or whatever you call them does it matter?) will point to the bosses (or whatever you call them does it matter?) on absurd salaries (who are not on strike by the way - they don't need to go on strike they just help themselves)

Serious question;
When you tell the workers we can't afford to pay them any more and they point to the bosses on absurd salaries and bonuses, how do you answer them?
usermalc d
Posted: 23 June 2022 9:30 AM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Legendary contributor

Posts: 9462
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Gremlin - 2022-06-22 8:53 PM

malc d - 2022-06-22 8:46 PM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

malc d - 2022-06-22 5:22 PM

Tracker - 2022-06-22 4:33 PM

When did you last see a railway worker actually working?



What a stupid remark.

If they never did any work - striking wouldn't affect anybody.



It’s not stupid at all.



.



So - if you agree with Tracker that railway workers don't do any work - who drives the trains, and maintains the tracks, when they are not on strike ?




I never said I agreed with Tracker that a railway staff do nothing.





So I assume you agree that what Tracker said was incorrect.


( I didn't read the rest of your waffle because it was irrelevant to the point about whether or not railway workers did any work ).



Edited by malc d 2022-06-23 9:36 AM
userCurtainRaiser
Posted: 23 June 2022 9:31 AM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Forum master

Posts: 3143
2000100010025


Gremlin - 2022-06-23 8:38 AM

CurtainRaiser - 2022-06-23 8:25 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-23 7:35 AM

John52 - 2022-06-23 4:46 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.


Just to be clear - are you talking about the workers, or the bosses on over 20 times the worker's pay?


Generically I’m talking about both as only a really stupid person ignore the commuters and other rail passengers who undoubtedly can be both.

How typical that you:-

A) label people “workers and bosses” - my god you are straight out of an Arthur Scargill tribute band!

B) ignore the travelling public that use the trains. - whoever these people are - the RMT are treating them with contempt.


It is interesting to note where public support for the strike is strongest. Note also how support increased once the reasons for the strikes were explained, the government originally were busy saying how much train drivers earned, when train drivers weren't striking or members of the RMT.

As we move towards further strikes across more public services it's worth considering why public sector pay hasn't kept up with the other public sector workers MPs?


Meanwhile:-

https://www.bbc.com/news/61840077


And from that link "The trouble with using the figure for train drivers in a debate about the RMT strikes is that the drivers are represented by their own union, Aslef - which is not taking part in the national strike."

userGremlin
Posted: 23 June 2022 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 940
50010010010010025


John52 - 2022-06-23 9:12 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-23 7:35 AM

John52 - 2022-06-23 4:46 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.


Just to be clear - are you talking about the workers, or the bosses on over 20 times the worker's pay?


Generically I’m talking about both as only a really stupid person ignore the commuters and other rail passengers who undoubtedly can be both.

How typical that you:-

A) label people “workers and bosses” - my god you are straight out of an Arthur Scargill tribute band!

B) ignore the travelling public that use the trains. - whoever these people are - the RMT are treating them with contempt.


Nice distraction there - change the subject to what name to call them
If you don't call them 'workers and bosses' what do you call them and why is it so important?
Incidentally I am no fan of Arthur Scargill
He talked about the miners employer as though it was a grotesque Victorian Capitalist instead of the general public. Posed as a Socialist but it was all about getting more from the public purse for themselves. Or as my mate put it -
"(Scargill) started with a big union and a small house, and finished with a small union and a big house"
But thats by the way.

In the negotiations the workers (or whatever you call them does it matter?) will point to the bosses (or whatever you call them does it matter?) on absurd salaries (who are not on strike by the way - they don't need to go on strike they just help themselves)

Serious question;
When you tell the workers we can't afford to pay them any more and they point to the bosses on absurd salaries and bonuses, how do you answer them?


I point out almost exactly what you have said above. I point out that the people supposedly representing “the workers” actually represent only themselves and their political agenda.

Big Union small house to small Union big house.

I actually like that
userGremlin
Posted: 23 June 2022 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 940
50010010010010025


CurtainRaiser - 2022-06-23 9:31 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-23 8:38 AM

CurtainRaiser - 2022-06-23 8:25 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-23 7:35 AM

John52 - 2022-06-23 4:46 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.


Just to be clear - are you talking about the workers, or the bosses on over 20 times the worker's pay?


Generically I’m talking about both as only a really stupid person ignore the commuters and other rail passengers who undoubtedly can be both.

How typical that you:-

A) label people “workers and bosses” - my god you are straight out of an Arthur Scargill tribute band!

B) ignore the travelling public that use the trains. - whoever these people are - the RMT are treating them with contempt.


It is interesting to note where public support for the strike is strongest. Note also how support increased once the reasons for the strikes were explained, the government originally were busy saying how much train drivers earned, when train drivers weren't striking or members of the RMT.

As we move towards further strikes across more public services it's worth considering why public sector pay hasn't kept up with the other public sector workers MPs?


Meanwhile:-

https://www.bbc.com/news/61840077


And from that link "The trouble with using the figure for train drivers in a debate about the RMT strikes is that the drivers are represented by their own union, Aslef - which is not taking part in the national strike."



Selective quoting again.

How about the wage comparisons with other workers.

You know, compare wages for those that DIDN’T get a £16BILLION helping hand from the government during Lockdown to keep empty Trains moving with those that did.

userGremlin
Posted: 23 June 2022 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 940
50010010010010025


malc d - 2022-06-23 9:30 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 8:53 PM

malc d - 2022-06-22 8:46 PM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

malc d - 2022-06-22 5:22 PM

Tracker - 2022-06-22 4:33 PM

When did you last see a railway worker actually working?



What a stupid remark.

If they never did any work - striking wouldn't affect anybody.



It’s not stupid at all.



.



So - if you agree with Tracker that railway workers don't do any work - who drives the trains, and maintains the tracks, when they are not on strike ?




I never said I agreed with Tracker that a railway staff do nothing.





So I assume you agree that what Tracker said was incorrect.


( I didn't read the rest of your waffle because it was irrelevant to the point about whether or not railway workers did any work ).



I already said I did not agree with that point. What I did say however is that £16BILLION and not furloughed or sacked was a benefit many would have liked to have benefitted from.
userTracker
Posted: 23 June 2022 11:28 AM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 


5000200020001001001001002525
Location: Vanless in Evesham.


The light hearted throw away comment that I actually wrote was -

When did you last see a railway worker actually working?

If the usual numpties are going to quote please have the courtesy to quote accurately.

I did not at any point say -

railway workers don't do any work.

My perception is that the railways are massively over staffed due only to union intransigence about employee reductions because it dilutes their union membership, reduces their ability to apply political sabotage (aka strikes) and reduces how much the union leaders can take from union funds.

I am not minded to seek evidence but anyone who believes differently is invited to submit an alternative view, but please make it sensible.



Edited by Tracker 2022-06-23 11:35 AM
userGremlin
Posted: 23 June 2022 12:29 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 940
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Tracker - 2022-06-23 11:28 AM

The light hearted throw away comment that I actually wrote was -

When did you last see a railway worker actually working?

If the usual numpties are going to quote please have the courtesy to quote accurately.

I did not at any point say -

railway workers don't do any work.

My perception is that the railways are massively over staffed due only to union intransigence about employee reductions because it dilutes their union membership, reduces their ability to apply political sabotage (aka strikes) and reduces how much the union leaders can take from union funds.

I am not minded to seek evidence but anyone who believes differently is invited to submit an alternative view, but please make it sensible.



“Quote accurately” ?????

You are an optimist with this lot

Their whole modus operandi is to selectively quote, misquote or even fabricate a quote others never made.

They have no integrity, moral compass, honesty or decency.
userJohn52
Posted: 23 June 2022 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 


The special one

Posts: 11680
500050001000500100252525
Location: Pissindoon, Scotland


Gremlin - 2022-06-23 10:04 AM

John52 - 2022-06-23 9:12 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-23 7:35 AM

John52 - 2022-06-23 4:46 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.


Just to be clear - are you talking about the workers, or the bosses on over 20 times the worker's pay?


Generically I’m talking about both as only a really stupid person ignore the commuters and other rail passengers who undoubtedly can be both.

How typical that you:-

A) label people “workers and bosses” - my god you are straight out of an Arthur Scargill tribute band!

B) ignore the travelling public that use the trains. - whoever these people are - the RMT are treating them with contempt.


Nice distraction there - change the subject to what name to call them
If you don't call them 'workers and bosses' what do you call them and why is it so important?
Incidentally I am no fan of Arthur Scargill
He talked about the miners employer as though it was a grotesque Victorian Capitalist instead of the general public. Posed as a Socialist but it was all about getting more from the public purse for themselves. Or as my mate put it -
"(Scargill) started with a big union and a small house, and finished with a small union and a big house"
But thats by the way.

In the negotiations the workers (or whatever you call them does it matter?) will point to the bosses (or whatever you call them does it matter?) on absurd salaries (who are not on strike by the way - they don't need to go on strike they just help themselves)

Serious question;
When you tell the workers we can't afford to pay them any more and they point to the bosses on absurd salaries and bonuses, how do you answer them?


I point out almost exactly what you have said above. I point out that the people supposedly representing “the workers” actually represent only themselves and their political agenda.

Big Union small house to small Union big house.

I actually like that


I've been in public sector offices and seen the posters where their Union is trying to associate themselves with the Tolpuddle Martyrs
Who I think would be spinning in their graves to think they are being used to screw the public purse for more money. I have huge respect for the Chartists and early trade unionists that won what freedoms we have. But todays public sector unions are nothing like them.
But thats by the way
We come back to the question
'when the Trade Unions point to the bosses, (CEOs whatever you call them) on absurd salaries and bonuses, how do you answer that?
Not an easy question to answer is it?
Which I guess you realise because you ignored it
userGremlin
Posted: 23 June 2022 2:54 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 940
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John52 - 2022-06-23 2:19 PM

Gremlin - 2022-06-23 10:04 AM

John52 - 2022-06-23 9:12 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-23 7:35 AM

John52 - 2022-06-23 4:46 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.


Just to be clear - are you talking about the workers, or the bosses on over 20 times the worker's pay?


Generically I’m talking about both as only a really stupid person ignore the commuters and other rail passengers who undoubtedly can be both.

How typical that you:-

A) label people “workers and bosses” - my god you are straight out of an Arthur Scargill tribute band!

B) ignore the travelling public that use the trains. - whoever these people are - the RMT are treating them with contempt.


Nice distraction there - change the subject to what name to call them
If you don't call them 'workers and bosses' what do you call them and why is it so important?
Incidentally I am no fan of Arthur Scargill
He talked about the miners employer as though it was a grotesque Victorian Capitalist instead of the general public. Posed as a Socialist but it was all about getting more from the public purse for themselves. Or as my mate put it -
"(Scargill) started with a big union and a small house, and finished with a small union and a big house"
But thats by the way.

In the negotiations the workers (or whatever you call them does it matter?) will point to the bosses (or whatever you call them does it matter?) on absurd salaries (who are not on strike by the way - they don't need to go on strike they just help themselves)

Serious question;
When you tell the workers we can't afford to pay them any more and they point to the bosses on absurd salaries and bonuses, how do you answer them?


I point out almost exactly what you have said above. I point out that the people supposedly representing “the workers” actually represent only themselves and their political agenda.

Big Union small house to small Union big house.

I actually like that


I've been in public sector offices and seen the posters where their Union is trying to associate themselves with the Tolpuddle Martyrs
Who I think would be spinning in their graves to think they are being used to screw the public purse for more money. I have huge respect for the Chartists and early trade unionists that won what freedoms we have. But todays public sector unions are nothing like them.
But thats by the way
We come back to the question
'when the Trade Unions point to the bosses, (CEOs whatever you call them) on absurd salaries and bonuses, how do you answer that?
Not an easy question to answer is it?
Which I guess you realise because you ignored it


No - I didn’t ignore it - I have previously talked about unscrupulous bosses using the Minimum Wage as a maximum upper limit on what they will pay. I mentioned that their are more job vacancies than people to fill them.

Even Boris has said “Bu99er Business” in the context of their objections to Brexit ending free movement and their never ending supply of cheap labour.

I am no fan of unscrupulous bosses. But there is always going to be people better off than you - just as there are always those not as well off as you.

It seems clear you are part of the politics of envy muppetry - constantly seeking reassurance that others believe the bosses are bad blah blah blah.

But having seen companies fail and the bosses lose everything- often through no fault of their own - such that they lose their home as well as their business.

Whilst the employees simply go on benefits for a bit then get another job.

Meanwhile the “Bosses” have lost everything.

Now I grant you I suspect you are not talking about the small firm of less than 100 employees - I suspect you are talking about “Big Business”. And I agree some CEO’s are on packages that are obscene.

But I don’t tar everyone with the same brush - you do. “Bosses and Workers” - how delightfully 1970’s

I also recognise that some industries got help during the pandemic - and others didn’t and went to the wall.

Hence my disquiet at the RMT being supported by tax payers money to the tune of £16Billion during Covid, no layoffs, no furlough on 80% of basic - they got full support thanks to their customers who paid their taxes.

Now the RMT is pi$$ing all over those tax paying workers/their customers.

Choosing a binary distinction of “Bosses and Workers” also makes you pathetically parochial.
usermalc d
Posted: 23 June 2022 3:34 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Legendary contributor

Posts: 9462
5000200020001001001001002525


Gremlin - 2022-06-23 12:29 PM

Tracker - 2022-06-23 11:28 AM

The light hearted throw away comment that I actually wrote was -

When did you last see a railway worker actually working?

If the usual numpties are going to quote please have the courtesy to quote accurately.

I did not at any point say -

railway workers don't do any work.

My perception is that the railways are massively over staffed due only to union intransigence about employee reductions because it dilutes their union membership, reduces their ability to apply political sabotage (aka strikes) and reduces how much the union leaders can take from union funds.

I am not minded to seek evidence but anyone who believes differently is invited to submit an alternative view, but please make it sensible.



“Quote accurately” ?????

You are an optimist with this lot

They have no integrity, moral compass, honesty or decency.



Tracker is very fortunate to have a qualified psychologist in his corner.

userGremlin
Posted: 23 June 2022 3:45 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 940
50010010010010025


malc d - 2022-06-23 3:34 PM

Gremlin - 2022-06-23 12:29 PM

Tracker - 2022-06-23 11:28 AM

The light hearted throw away comment that I actually wrote was -

When did you last see a railway worker actually working?

If the usual numpties are going to quote please have the courtesy to quote accurately.

I did not at any point say -

railway workers don't do any work.

My perception is that the railways are massively over staffed due only to union intransigence about employee reductions because it dilutes their union membership, reduces their ability to apply political sabotage (aka strikes) and reduces how much the union leaders can take from union funds.

I am not minded to seek evidence but anyone who believes differently is invited to submit an alternative view, but please make it sensible.



“Quote accurately” ?????

You are an optimist with this lot

They have no integrity, moral compass, honesty or decency.



Tracker is very fortunate to have a qualified psychologist in his corner.



Said the Proctologists dream patient.
userBulletguy
Posted: 23 June 2022 3:47 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 18591
50005000500020001000500252525
Location: Cheshire


CurtainRaiser - 2022-06-23 8:25 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-23 7:35 AM

John52 - 2022-06-23 4:46 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.


Just to be clear - are you talking about the workers, or the bosses on over 20 times the worker's pay?


Generically I’m talking about both as only a really stupid person ignore the commuters and other rail passengers who undoubtedly can be both.

How typical that you:-

A) label people “workers and bosses” - my god you are straight out of an Arthur Scargill tribute band!

B) ignore the travelling public that use the trains. - whoever these people are - the RMT are treating them with contempt.


It is interesting to note where public support for the strike is strongest. Note also how support increased once the reasons for the strikes were explained, the government originally were busy saying how much train drivers earned, when train drivers weren't striking or members of the RMT.

As we move towards further strikes across more public services it's worth considering why public sector pay hasn't kept up with the other public sector workers MPs?

Almost £20k salary increase in just 12 years.

Now lets look at some salaries from Network Rail. I must admit I was quite surprised at the rate for Electricians who should be on far more than £28k pa.....bearing in mind they're industrial qualified.

https://uk.indeed.com/cmp/Network-Rail/salaries/Electrician
userBulletguy
Posted: 23 June 2022 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 18591
50005000500020001000500252525
Location: Cheshire


Gremlin - 2022-06-23 11:03 AM

CurtainRaiser - 2022-06-23 9:31 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-23 8:38 AM

CurtainRaiser - 2022-06-23 8:25 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-23 7:35 AM

John52 - 2022-06-23 4:46 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.


Just to be clear - are you talking about the workers, or the bosses on over 20 times the worker's pay?


Generically I’m talking about both as only a really stupid person ignore the commuters and other rail passengers who undoubtedly can be both.

How typical that you:-

A) label people “workers and bosses” - my god you are straight out of an Arthur Scargill tribute band!

B) ignore the travelling public that use the trains. - whoever these people are - the RMT are treating them with contempt.


It is interesting to note where public support for the strike is strongest. Note also how support increased once the reasons for the strikes were explained, the government originally were busy saying how much train drivers earned, when train drivers weren't striking or members of the RMT.

As we move towards further strikes across more public services it's worth considering why public sector pay hasn't kept up with the other public sector workers MPs?


Meanwhile:-

https://www.bbc.com/news/61840077


And from that link "The trouble with using the figure for train drivers in a debate about the RMT strikes is that the drivers are represented by their own union, Aslef - which is not taking part in the national strike."



Selective quoting again.

No it's not. Train drivers are NOT on strike.
userBulletguy
Posted: 23 June 2022 3:59 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 18591
50005000500020001000500252525
Location: Cheshire


Tracker - 2022-06-23 11:28 AM

The light hearted throw away comment that I actually wrote was -

When did you last see a railway worker actually working?

If the usual numpties are going to quote please have the courtesy to quote accurately.

I did not at any point say -

railway workers don't do any work.

Mere semantics....the implication was clearly there just as you intended it to be.

My perception is that the railways are massively over staffed due only to union intransigence about employee reductions because it dilutes their union membership, reduces their ability to apply political sabotage (aka strikes) and reduces how much the union leaders can take from union funds.

I am not minded to seek evidence but anyone who believes differently is invited to submit an alternative view, but please make it sensible.

On your own admittance you have no evidence of them being "massively over staffed"......just "perceive" them to be.
userBulletguy
Posted: 23 June 2022 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 18591
50005000500020001000500252525
Location: Cheshire


Gremlin - 2022-06-23 12:29 PM

Tracker - 2022-06-23 11:28 AM

The light hearted throw away comment that I actually wrote was -

When did you last see a railway worker actually working?

If the usual numpties are going to quote please have the courtesy to quote accurately.

I did not at any point say -

railway workers don't do any work.

My perception is that the railways are massively over staffed due only to union intransigence about employee reductions because it dilutes their union membership, reduces their ability to apply political sabotage (aka strikes) and reduces how much the union leaders can take from union funds.

I am not minded to seek evidence but anyone who believes differently is invited to submit an alternative view, but please make it sensible.



“Quote accurately” ?????

You are an optimist with this lot

Their whole modus operandi is to selectively quote, misquote or even fabricate a quote others never made.

They have no integrity, moral compass, honesty or decency.

That describes you perfectly.
userGremlin
Posted: 23 June 2022 4:04 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 940
50010010010010025


Gremlin - 2022-06-23 11:03 AM

CurtainRaiser - 2022-06-23 9:31 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-23 8:38 AM

CurtainRaiser - 2022-06-23 8:25 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-23 7:35 AM

John52 - 2022-06-23 4:46 AM

Gremlin - 2022-06-22 5:40 PM

these belligerent greedy dinosaurs.


Just to be clear - are you talking about the workers, or the bosses on over 20 times the worker's pay?


Generically I’m talking about both as only a really stupid person ignore the commuters and other rail passengers who undoubtedly can be both.

How typical that you:-

A) label people “workers and bosses” - my god you are straight out of an Arthur Scargill tribute band!

B) ignore the travelling public that use the trains. - whoever these people are - the RMT are treating them with contempt.


It is interesting to note where public support for the strike is strongest. Note also how support increased once the reasons for the strikes were explained, the government originally were busy saying how much train drivers earned, when train drivers weren't striking or members of the RMT.

As we move towards further strikes across more public services it's worth considering why public sector pay hasn't kept up with the other public sector workers MPs?


Meanwhile:-

https://www.bbc.com/news/61840077


And from that link "The trouble with using the figure for train drivers in a debate about the RMT strikes is that the drivers are represented by their own union, Aslef - which is not taking part in the national strike."



Selective quoting again.

How about the wage comparisons with other workers.

You know, compare wages for those that DIDN’T get a £16BILLION helping hand from the government during Lockdown to keep empty Trains moving with those that did.



What I actually wrote.

You removed the last two lines and therefore tried to alter the context of what I said.

You are dishonest - a charlatan.
userGremlin
Posted: 23 June 2022 4:08 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 940
50010010010010025


Bulletguy - 2022-06-23 4:02 PM

Gremlin - 2022-06-23 12:29 PM

Tracker - 2022-06-23 11:28 AM

The light hearted throw away comment that I actually wrote was -

When did you last see a railway worker actually working?

If the usual numpties are going to quote please have the courtesy to quote accurately.

I did not at any point say -

railway workers don't do any work.

My perception is that the railways are massively over staffed due only to union intransigence about employee reductions because it dilutes their union membership, reduces their ability to apply political sabotage (aka strikes) and reduces how much the union leaders can take from union funds.

I am not minded to seek evidence but anyone who believes differently is invited to submit an alternative view, but please make it sensible.



“Quote accurately” ?????

You are an optimist with this lot

Their whole modus operandi is to selectively quote, misquote or even fabricate a quote others never made.

They have no integrity, moral compass, honesty or decency.

That describes you perfectly.


You’re like a playground bully - caught out - and when challenged all you can do is whimper:-

“and you’re one too!”


Really is rather pathetic.
userGremlin
Posted: 23 June 2022 4:20 PM
Subject: RE: U.K. exports to EU
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 940
50010010010010025


Bulletguy - 2022-06-23 3:59 PM

Tracker - 2022-06-23 11:28 AM

The light hearted throw away comment that I actually wrote was -

When did you last see a railway worker actually working?

If the usual numpties are going to quote please have the courtesy to quote accurately.

I did not at any point say -

railway workers don't do any work.

Mere semantics....the implication was clearly there just as you intended it to be.

My perception is that the railways are massively over staffed due only to union intransigence about employee reductions because it dilutes their union membership, reduces their ability to apply political sabotage (aka strikes) and reduces how much the union leaders can take from union funds.

I am not minded to seek evidence but anyone who believes differently is invited to submit an alternative view, but please make it sensible.

On your own admittance you have no evidence of them being "massively over staffed"......just "perceive" them to be.


Not read the McNulty Report from as far back as 2011 then…..
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