UK Pink licence still valid?

[Wortho]

Hi Folks,

 

I have an old Pink paper driving licence from the UK and it says valid until 2034. I have not lived in the UK for around 25 years and I know there have been some changes with the introduction of a Photo card. The reason I ask is I am planning to drive in Europe (Spain-Portugal-France-Italy) in a months time so wondering if my Pink licence is valid in these countries without the photo id.

I have driven in Europe in the past on my Australian licence but it appears that some countries such as Italy require you to also have a International driving permit if using an non EU licence. My address on the pink licence is also an old one so not sure if this renders the licence invalid either.

Thanks

[Bulletguy]

 

The old paper licence whilst valid for use in EU countries is pretty much useless in that it's so outdated it's totally alien to police officers in European countries so as you plan to drive there, i'd apply for a photo id licence. Police are more familiar with those.

 

Now for the downside. The photo id licence is a great idea but it was craftily introduced as a stealth tax. Your paper licence is valid for life (or 70 years).....your photo id licence isn't. It will cost you £20 and a current photo has to be supplied to DVLA every 10 years to be renewed at a charge of £20. Once you reach 70 it becomes free.

 

I tour regularly in Europe and use a photo id licence. Whatever country you're in, police instantly recognise it but as said, the paper one is meaningless to them.

 

https://www.gov.uk/exchange-paper-driving-licence

[Wortho]

Thanks for that. Its probably best that I get an International permit this time around then as I have limited time to organise the UK photo licence for the trip in a few weeks time.

Cheers

 

[W3526602]

Hi Wortho,

 

I believe the paper licence is, or is about to become, extict. I'll check on that.

 

Yes the photocard licence must be renewed every ten years. The renewal date is in tiny print on the front of your licence. Not renewing does not affect your entitlement to drive, but is not an option. You do have three options ...

 

Renew your licence every ten years ... which will require you to have a UK address where you can be contacted at any time. OR ...

 

Pay up to a £1,000 fine, OR ...

 

Surrender your licence.

 

A UK driving licence is a very valuable document, and is (I believe) accepted anywhere in the world. The UK will not accept licences from many other countries. But only you can decide whether it is worth paying £20 (and rising), to hold such a licence. I am guessing that you are currently aged about 54, so will pay it now, and again in 2028, and thereafter, it will be free..

 

Be aware, that when you turn 70, you will lose your entitlement to drive heavier than 3,500kg MGW, or drive minibuses over 8 passenger seats ... unless you pass a medical at your own expense. You will still be able to tow a trailer up to 3,500kg MGW if you currently have a B+E licence (Classes may be different on your old licence. Did you pass your UK driving test, in a car, before 1997?)

 

An EU (27 states) licence would presumably be exchangable for a UK licence (subject to your address) for the forseeable future, and I think the French age ceiling was 85. I think that you may NOT hold both a UK and EU licence at the same time, though that may change after Brexit. Your UK test pass should still entitle you to renew your UK licence at any time ... at least until after your 70th birthday ... plus 10 years ... maybe longer.

 

But don't rely on what I'm telling you, use it to ask questions that are relevent to your circumstances.

 

602

[Bulletguy]

602......

 

The paper (counterpart) licence was abolished June 2015 and has no legal status. Paper driving licences issued before 1998 are still valid and have to be kept......even if you have a photocard licence. To me that was always the daft part about the whole thing, eg i've now got a photocard licence and paper licence....which i have to keep. How bonkers is that? :-S

 

When photocard licences were first introduced DVLA offered them free so i took it up....but i hadn't read the 'small print' about having to shell out £20 every 10 years just to have a new photo stuck on! Fortunately i've only had to pay two lots as i'm 70 in a couple of years and won't have to pay.

 

It's worth mentioning UK police take a very lenient stance on out of date photocards as they know lots of drivers have been unaware of the 10 year renewal and give you time to get it sorted.

 

This explains more here; https://www.gov.uk/government/news/driving-licence-changes

[Wortho]

Thank you both for the detailed replies.

602..The licence I have was issued in 1988 and for Groups A'D'E.

I did attempt to renew the licence online but I did not get far as they want to know how long you have been at current address and previous addresses, they also state you must be a resident in the UK so I guess I no longer qualify. I have a Sister in the UK and I stay there when in UK but they would probably want proof that I live there. So looks like I will be forking out AUD$40 a year for a piece of paper to state that my Aussie licence is valid when driving on the continent. I have read that people have been fined 400 Euro's in Italy for not producing an International driving permit!...Ouch!

See comments below article.

https://www.holidaystoeurope.com.au/home/resources/blog/419-do-i-need-an-international-driving-permit

Cheers

[Bulletguy]

 

Wortho.......before you pay out for anything, contact this couple; http://www.travelbunyip.com/

 

They are from Australia and travel extensively in Europe as you can see from their blog. I met them a few years ago in Albania where we had some good meals and drinks together. Would be well worth emailing them.

[Brian Kirby]

Bulletguy - 2018-03-29 2:18 AM

 

 

The old paper licence whilst valid for use in EU countries is pretty much useless in that it's so outdated it's totally alien to police officers in European countries so as you plan to drive there, i'd apply for a photo id licence. Police are more familiar with those.

 

Now for the downside. The photo id licence is a great idea but it was craftily introduced as a stealth tax. Your paper licence is valid for life (or 70 years).....your photo id licence isn't. It will cost you £20 and a current photo has to be supplied to DVLA every 10 years to be renewed at a charge of £20. Once you reach 70 it becomes free.

 

I tour regularly in Europe and use a photo id licence. Whatever country you're in, police instantly recognise it but as said, the paper one is meaningless to them.

 

https://www.gov.uk/exchange-paper-driving-licence

Can't comment on present situation re paper driving licence, but I do remember that to drive in Italy with those licences before the introduction of the photo card licence it was necessary to also nave an International Driving Permit, so I think your simplest option will be your Australian licence + an IDP.

[Wortho]

Thanks again guys, Going to pick up an IDP before we leave just in case. Will also have a read of the blog as it looks like they travelled a lot of the areas we are planning to travel so could offer some tips etc.

Cheers

 

[colin]

Brian Kirby - 2018-03-30 12:32 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-03-29 2:18 AM

 

 

The old paper licence whilst valid for use in EU countries is pretty much useless in that it's so outdated it's totally alien to police officers in European countries so as you plan to drive there, i'd apply for a photo id licence. Police are more familiar with those.

 

Now for the downside. The photo id licence is a great idea but it was craftily introduced as a stealth tax. Your paper licence is valid for life (or 70 years).....your photo id licence isn't. It will cost you £20 and a current photo has to be supplied to DVLA every 10 years to be renewed at a charge of £20. Once you reach 70 it becomes free.

 

I tour regularly in Europe and use a photo id licence. Whatever country you're in, police instantly recognise it but as said, the paper one is meaningless to them.

 

https://www.gov.uk/exchange-paper-driving-licence

Can't comment on present situation re paper driving licence, but I do remember that to drive in Italy with those licences before the introduction of the photo card licence it was necessary to also nave an International Driving Permit, so I think your simplest option will be your Australian licence + an IDP.

 

You either needed a IDP or an Italian translation, but that's all academic, not living at the named address makes it invalid even in the UK.

p.s. that was for the earliest paper licence, the later ones where still accepted across EU last time I had one.

[Basil]

The pink paper driving licence is still acceptable in the EU, you do not need an International Driving Permit which was basically an interpretation of the GB licence anyway, you did not need either a translation or an IDP for Italy either with the Pink addition but you did with the earlier Green one that the Pink replaced! I know this to be correct as I have queried this with the DVLA on more than one occasion and I have produced my licence to Police in both France and Italy with no problem.

I hold one of those and it quite clearly states on the license GB Driving Licence European Communities Model and has a translation in nine different languages.

 

There is no requirement to change to a Photo Card until the pink one runs out unless there is reason such as change of address, in your case however, if I understand you correctly, yours has an incorrect address on it which means not only is it invalid but you are open to a £1000 fine I believe.

 

Bas

[Wortho]

Thanks guys, As we intend to travel to Portugal as well according to the RAC I will need either a UK photo licence or an IDP, all very confusing where all these EU countries have differing rules : )

 

If you're driving in Portugal, your checklist requirements are:

A valid UK driving licence. If you don't have a photo card licence, you'll need an International Driving Permit - find out more here.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/travel/country/portugal/

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

I have an EU driving licence, (UK Chapter). I wonder what will happen when Brexit takes effect.

 

Those "Groups" you mentioned (A,D & E?) are probably called something else now. CATERGORY A is now I think motorcycles. Cat.B is motorcars up to 3500kg MGW. Cat C is Goods vehicles over 3500kg MGW, and Cat D is buses. But they all have sub-groups, many dependent on when you passed your test, and how old you are. The crunch date for driving entitlement was "test passed" before/after 1997, I think., and you will become "unclean" on your 70th birthday. You should still have moped entitlement, plus several other obscure vehicle types (Farm tractors, etc). Some older bikers can drive Quadricycles, new bikers are not entitled to drive three-wheelers.

 

Quadricycles have four wheels and weigh less than 550kg ... in UK. In France, and possibly elsewhere, they are also limited to something like 15kW. In France, you do not need a licence to ride/drive a vehicle with a <50cc engine, although slightly bigger diesels are OK.

 

Google ... DVLA WHAT CAN I DRIVE. Then Google... DVLA WHAT CAN I TOW. Make sure you are looking at the latest version.

 

It's a minefield.

 

I read of an English woman, living permanently in France. The French would not give her a French licence, saying her UK issued EU licence was valid, and DVLA would not renew her UK photocard licence because she did not have a UK address. I think at that time, the paper bit was the licence, and the photocard was the counter-part. That has now changed.

 

At one time, your driving entitement ceased to exist, if your licence expired, and you did not renew within 10 years. You had to start all over again, with a provisional. Now, your entitlement lasts until you are 70. I do not know what happens if you do not try to renew it until you have turned 80. I will try to find out, if you wish.

 

602

[catinou]

We now live in France and had to exchange our UK licences for French / EU ones within 3 months of arrival. Were shocked to find this invalidated our Motorhome insurance and have had great difficulty finding a company to insure us as the van is still registered in UK but we live mainly in France. (We want the value to drop below a certain level before we import it to France hence the problem.)

[Bulletguy]

catinou - 2018-09-26 12:00 PM

 

We now live in France and had to exchange our UK licences for French / EU ones within 3 months of arrival. Were shocked to find this invalidated our Motorhome insurance and have had great difficulty finding a company to insure us as the van is still registered in UK but we live mainly in France. (We want the value to drop below a certain level before we import it to France hence the problem.)

Surely if living 'mainly in France' you'd be much better off getting it registered there then you wouldn't have insurance issues?

[Guest pelmetman]

catinou - 2018-09-26 12:00 PM

 

We now live in France and had to exchange our UK licences for French / EU ones within 3 months of arrival. Were shocked to find this invalidated our Motorhome insurance and have had great difficulty finding a company to insure us as the van is still registered in UK but we live mainly in France. (We want the value to drop below a certain level before we import it to France hence the problem.)

 

Try Abbeygate Insurance in Gibraltar ;-) .......

 

Works for my UK reg 900 quid Toyota in storage in Spain B-) .......

 

It even shows up on the UK MID insurance database as insured :D .......

 

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

catinou - 2018-09-26 12:00 PM

 

We now live in France and had to exchange our UK licences for French / EU ones within 3 months of arrival. Were shocked to find this invalidated our Motorhome insurance and have had great difficulty finding a company to insure us as the van is still registered in UK but we live mainly in France. (We want the value to drop below a certain level before we import it to France hence the problem.)

I think you may need to check the actual status of your vehicle. Do you still have a valid UK address? If you don't, and your only postal address in in France, or you are spending more than six months at that address, your national status changes. So too does your ability to obtain vehicle insurance.

 

Similarly with the vehicle, if it is continuously out of the country for more than 12 months you are required to formally export it, when it cannot legally be used until registered in, in your case, France. Up to the 12 months limit, it must be kept taxed in UK, MoT'd in UK, and obviously insured.

 

Dave's suggestion seems only relevant to vehicles registered in, or kept in, Gibraltar, Spain, Portugal, or Cyprus - although it is obviously worth seeing if they can offer similar policies for France.

 

There is a presumption that a vehicle registered in a country will be taxed as necessary, insured as necessary, and MoT'd as necessary in that country. Firms will, for example, carry out MoT type testing (French Controle Technique) on foreign registered vehicles but, AFAIK, the resulting certificate is valueless unless the vehicle is also registered in the country in which it is tested.

 

You could also try contacting Limestreet Brokers in London, who specialise in difficult vehicle insurance situations on UK vehicles abroad, and on foreign registered vehicles being brought to UK. They were very informative when I spoke to them a year or so back. Just "Google" Lime Street Brokers.