Bulletguy Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 J/start linked to this on an unrelated thread so for clarity have opened this thread. Coming from Trumps favoured media source which says; Britain is a mediocre ally of declining importance, and one that doesn’t currently deserve a trade deal. Britain is extremely soft on China, our biggest foreign challenge. The British government just decided to ignore U.S. pleas not to use Huawei products in its 5G telecom system. Britain is also weak on Iran. Britain colluded with France and Germany to create the “INSTEX” scheme to circumvent U.S. sanctions on Iran. The U.K. is a middling power at best, and expects us to defend it against Russia even though its economy is 66 percent larger than Russia’s. Their power peaked one century ago, and they resent their diminished importance, especially when contrasted by American power that is durable and growing despite predictions to the contrary. Our (the US) key allies are Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates. Couldn't be more clear whose expected to wag its tail in subservience......and this is what a few fools see as a "special relationship". *-) https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/brexit-britain-trade-deal-us-christian-whiton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I like this bit "Hopefully Brexit will revive Britains greatness and replace post-modernity with healthy nationalism" ... That Trump supporter you seem to love gets it spot on ... Happy Brexit Day ... Raise a glass , you'll only need one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Presumably once we tell them to leave their uk bases, and the one’ s on Diego Garcia , the Ascension Islands , they will say ....oh hang on , perhaps we might need you a bit longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-01-31 9:24 PM Presumably once we tell them to leave their uk bases, and the one’ s on Diego Garcia , the Ascension Islands , they will say ....oh hang on , perhaps we might need you a bit longer. They are already threatening sanctions against the U.K. if we don't do as they say on Iran deal / Amazon and Google taxes - so I wouldn't be too sure we will be ' telling' them to leave anywhere ! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 malc d - 2020-01-31 9:31 PM jumpstart - 2020-01-31 9:24 PM Presumably once we tell them to leave their uk bases, and the one’ s on Diego Garcia , the Ascension Islands , they will say ....oh hang on , perhaps we might need you a bit longer. They are already threatening sanctions against the U.K. if we don't do as they say on Iran deal / Amazon and Google taxes - so I wouldn't be too sure we will be ' telling' them to leave anywhere ! ;-) Yes we've got ourselves in a right mess......Americas poodle. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Im not actually convinced we will get a deal with the US now. Johnson thinks Trump is unfit for office, we have that on video. His job of pretending to be Nigel Farage is over now. Its done. Will we now slowly see a return to the liberal Mayor Johnson? Who knows? He just plays whatever roll he needs to get where he wants to be. They are going to have to decide over the next 11 months which is more important, the EU or the US. Not only that which offers the quickest return and the least path of resistance and what are we prepared to sacrifice? I say EU. You cant have both thats for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-02-01 12:18 AM They are going to have to decide over the next 11 months which is more important, the EU or the US. . I think they decided that years ago. They'd rather follow the US because its more right wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Boo-hoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 John52 - 2020-02-01 7:20 AM Barryd999 - 2020-02-01 12:18 AM They are going to have to decide over the next 11 months which is more important, the EU or the US. . I think they decided that years ago. They'd rather follow the US because its more right wing. Not at any price and just how Right wing is Johnson really? You might be right but I think the US will demand too much. We already have a fantastic deal with the EU which we could lean towards keeping even out of the EU and the sacrifice and pain would be much less that having to meet Trumps demands which will pretty much be cutting any ties with the EU, accepting huge increases in prices for drugs and laying waste to much of our Agri stuff. Why? Why do it? The US are already our biggest "Single" trading partner. What massive advantage would we get over what we have now by swapping the EU For the US? It just makes no sense at all. Johnson can drop the Farage mask now, its over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-02-01 9:40 AM John52 - 2020-02-01 7:20 AM Barryd999 - 2020-02-01 12:18 AM They are going to have to decide over the next 11 months which is more important, the EU or the US. . I think they decided that years ago. They'd rather follow the US because its more right wing. Not at any price and just how Right wing is Johnson really? You might be right but I think the US will demand too much. We already have a fantastic deal with the EU which we could lean towards keeping even out of the EU and the sacrifice and pain would be much less that having to meet Trumps demands which will pretty much be cutting any ties with the EU, accepting huge increases in prices for drugs and laying waste to much of our Agri stuff. Why? Why do it? The US are already our biggest "Single" trading partner. What massive advantage would we get over what we have now by swapping the EU For the US? It just makes no sense at all. Johnson can drop the Farage mask now, its over. Its not about that. When the EU lays down Employment & Social Law etc, the Toffs feel the same outrage they do when the plebs tell them they can't hunt foxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-02-01 9:40 AM just how Right wing is Johnson really? BoJo is what Sir Humphrey Appleby called a 'Moral Vacuum' I could see BoJo as a left winger if thats what it took to be PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-02-01 9:40 AM John52 - 2020-02-01 7:20 AM Barryd999 - 2020-02-01 12:18 AM They are going to have to decide over the next 11 months which is more important, the EU or the US. . I think they decided that years ago. They'd rather follow the US because its more right wing. Not at any price and just how Right wing is Johnson really? You might be right but I think the US will demand too much. We already have a fantastic deal with the EU which we could lean towards keeping even out of the EU and the sacrifice and pain would be much less that having to meet Trumps demands which will pretty much be cutting any ties with the EU, accepting huge increases in prices for drugs and laying waste to much of our Agri stuff. Why? Why do it? The US are already our biggest "Single" trading partner. What massive advantage would we get over what we have now by swapping the EU For the US? It just makes no sense at all. Johnson can drop the Farage mask now, its over. Facts dont lie ... What the UK sells to the EU has fallen by a big percentage in the last 15-20 years ... In business you dont pay an ever massively increasing membership fee to have access to a fast decreasing market ... You look elsewhere und you have no idea what POTUS Trump will "demand" as your NHS scare stories have shown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-02-01 12:18 AM They are going to have to decide over the next 11 months which is more important, the EU or the US. Not only that which offers the quickest return and the least path of resistance and what are we prepared to sacrifice? I say EU. You cant have both thats for sure. Quite frankly anyone who thinks we can sit at a table with the US and have some kind of bargaining power to strike deals lives in a fcuking tree. They will make demands tell us what to do or fcuk off and we'll have to do one or the other. That Fox article is bad enough and thats Trumps 'bible'. Kissinger once said, "America has no permanent friends....only interests". Murica First remember....along with all those other inane juvenile soundbites that appeal to the poodles of populism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-02-01 1:19 PM..................Facts dont lie ... What the UK sells to the EU has fallen by a big percentage in the last 15-20 years ... ………….... ……………... Can you link to any figures on the above, please, Antony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-02-01 6:45 PM Birdbrain - 2020-02-01 1:19 PM..................Facts dont lie ... What the UK sells to the EU has fallen by a big percentage in the last 15-20 years ... ………….... ……………... Can you link to any figures on the above, please, Antony?[/QU Not from Anthony but try fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/ it shows the reduced amounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-02-01 3:55 PM Barryd999 - 2020-02-01 12:18 AM They are going to have to decide over the next 11 months which is more important, the EU or the US. Not only that which offers the quickest return and the least path of resistance and what are we prepared to sacrifice? I say EU. You cant have both thats for sure. Quite frankly anyone who thinks we can sit at a table with the US and have some kind of bargaining power to strike deals lives in a fcuking tree. They will make demands tell us what to do or fcuk off and we'll have to do one or the other. That Fox article is bad enough and thats Trumps 'bible'. Kissinger once said, "America has no permanent friends....only interests". Murica First remember....along with all those other inane juvenile soundbites that appeal to the poodles of populism. So you are the Chatterbox International Trade expert now then? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 teflon2 - 2020-02-01 6:59 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-02-01 6:45 PM Birdbrain - 2020-02-01 1:19 PM..................Facts dont lie ... What the UK sells to the EU has fallen by a big percentage in the last 15-20 years ... ………….... ……………... Can you link to any figures on the above, please, Antony? Not from Anthony but try fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/ it shows the reduced amounts. Hardly a "big percentage" its fallen by just 2% according to fullfacts link. But then we've always imported more than we export.....about time we got making stuff! https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-02-01 6:45 PM Birdbrain - 2020-02-01 1:19 PM..................Facts dont lie ... What the UK sells to the EU has fallen by a big percentage in the last 15-20 years ... ………….... ……………... Can you link to any figures on the above, please, Antony? https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Trade has declined with the EU but not as much as Brexiteers would like you to believe but its also because its increased through globalisation with the rest of the world and ironically while we were EU members. You have to now consider that we have not only made our trade more difficult with the EU but also with the raft of countries we had trade deals with while members of the EU. Some say we can roll all those over but they will go down the toilet if we end up with no deal when we leave properly. Then what. We also have over 700 agreements (not trade deals) with the US Via the EU. Sorry, we did have. So we are starting even further back with the US than we were two days ago. Ill ask the question again though. What exactly are we going to trade with the US that we dont now that is going to make up for losing our biggest trading partner and probably the raft of trade deals we had in place as members? So far all I have seen is what the US wants to flog us and their prices of drugs going skywards. I thought the idea was that we would be taking on the world and flogging them stuff. So what are we flogging? Is it Financial services because I gather New York is now favoured as the UK lost its access to the single market or will do in 11 months time. Its one thing being able to buy cheap dodgy chicken but what will we be flogging in this brave new world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 What amazes me most are the 'expert' members on here giving us the benefit of their knowledge on Politics, Finance and World Trade. A few years ago their minds were full of other things and they had never given a thought to the above subjects. That suggests to me that they are simply passing on the voices of others who they deem to be clever. Of course these 'clever' people are the ones who also want the same thing as the OAL member. That is why I regard their posts to be fake news, as in 'not their opinion but someone elses'. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Seems a win win to me, so you read something, you look up the details ,you discuss it. Everyone gets more educated. Isn’t that what this is all about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 747 - 2020-02-02 12:56 PM What amazes me most are the 'expert' members on here giving us the benefit of their knowledge on Politics, Finance and World Trade. A few years ago their minds were full of other things and they had never given a thought to the above subjects. That suggests to me that they are simply passing on the voices of others who they deem to be clever. Of course these 'clever' people are the ones who also want the same thing as the OAL member. That is why I regard their posts to be fake news, as in 'not their opinion but someone elses'. ;-) Or another way of looking at it is some of us felt so passionately about it we educated ourselves in a whole manner of Brexit related topics from Trade deals to bendy Bananas. I think you can afford remainers some credit for knowing their stuff, we have been at it over four years now. You are partly right of course on two things. Most of us never cared that much about any of this until it raised its ugly head a few years back. Perhaps we took for granted how wonderful it was to be able to live, play, work etc all across Europe. Having travelled extensively from country to country for many years I felt ever more European rather than just British. Then along comes Farage and the Brexiteers and they trash the lot for reasons of nationalism, ignorance and for many to make a quick buck I suspect. Your right about learning from experts as well. Ive become friends with a fair few. People like Jason Hunter. What he doesnst know about the EU, Brexit, Trade, WTO etc and negotiations isnt worth knowing. Its kind of how you learn stuff innit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-02-02 2:56 PM 747 - 2020-02-02 12:56 PM What amazes me most are the 'expert' members on here giving us the benefit of their knowledge on Politics, Finance and World Trade. A few years ago their minds were full of other things and they had never given a thought to the above subjects. That suggests to me that they are simply passing on the voices of others who they deem to be clever. Of course these 'clever' people are the ones who also want the same thing as the OAL member. That is why I regard their posts to be fake news, as in 'not their opinion but someone elses'. ;-) Or another way of looking at it is some of us felt so passionately about it we educated ourselves in a whole manner of Brexit related topics from Trade deals to bendy Bananas. I think you can afford remainers some credit for knowing their stuff, we have been at it over four years now. You are partly right of course on two things. Most of us never cared that much about any of this until it raised its ugly head a few years back. Perhaps we took for granted how wonderful it was to be able to live, play, work etc all across Europe. Having travelled extensively from country to country for many years I felt ever more European rather than just British. Then along comes Farage and the Brexiteers and they trash the lot for reasons of nationalism, ignorance and for many to make a quick buck I suspect. Your right about learning from experts as well. Ive become friends with a fair few. People like Jason Hunter. What he doesnst know about the EU, Brexit, Trade, WTO etc and negotiations isnt worth knowing. Its kind of how you learn stuff innit? How is opening up to world markets instead of a decreasing EU market "nationalism" ??? ... The last four years if anyone has been guilty of "ignorance" its you and for a fella who's made friends with some so called "expert" you dont half get a lot of stuff wrong ... Try making a new friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Jason Hunter, ardent remainer who picks every negative of Brexit and self publicises himself discussing it on forums like the Russian TV station RT. Never seen him on other TV Channels. It's pointless saying what I think of him to a bloke who has every excuse under the Sun why Jeremy Corbyn was a really nice chap who was picked on for nothing. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-02-02 3:17 PM Barryd999 - 2020-02-02 2:56 PM 747 - 2020-02-02 12:56 PM What amazes me most are the 'expert' members on here giving us the benefit of their knowledge on Politics, Finance and World Trade. A few years ago their minds were full of other things and they had never given a thought to the above subjects. That suggests to me that they are simply passing on the voices of others who they deem to be clever. Of course these 'clever' people are the ones who also want the same thing as the OAL member. That is why I regard their posts to be fake news, as in 'not their opinion but someone elses'. ;-) Or another way of looking at it is some of us felt so passionately about it we educated ourselves in a whole manner of Brexit related topics from Trade deals to bendy Bananas. I think you can afford remainers some credit for knowing their stuff, we have been at it over four years now. You are partly right of course on two things. Most of us never cared that much about any of this until it raised its ugly head a few years back. Perhaps we took for granted how wonderful it was to be able to live, play, work etc all across Europe. Having travelled extensively from country to country for many years I felt ever more European rather than just British. Then along comes Farage and the Brexiteers and they trash the lot for reasons of nationalism, ignorance and for many to make a quick buck I suspect. Your right about learning from experts as well. Ive become friends with a fair few. People like Jason Hunter. What he doesnst know about the EU, Brexit, Trade, WTO etc and negotiations isnt worth knowing. Its kind of how you learn stuff innit? How is opening up to world markets instead of a decreasing EU market "nationalism" ??? ... The last four years if anyone has been guilty of "ignorance" its you and for a fella who's made friends with some so called "expert" you dont half get a lot of stuff wrong ... Try making a new friend Lets not pretend for most Brexit was anything to do with opening up to world Markets eh. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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