Guest pelmetman Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 >:-) ........... "Italian variant' was found in samples from August, before first UK mutant cases Top Italian virologist says the variant could be a 'precursor' to the English strain" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9095233/Italy-finds-variant-Covid-19-similar-English-strain.html Suck it up HATERS :D .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-04-01 7:41 PM >:-) ........... "Italian variant' was found in samples from August, before first UK mutant cases Top Italian virologist says the variant could be a 'precursor' to the English strain" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9095233/Italy-finds-variant-Covid-19-similar-English-strain.html Suck it up HATERS :D .......... Bump :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-04-01 7:49 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-01 7:41 PM >:-) ........... "Italian variant' was found in samples from August, before first UK mutant cases Top Italian virologist says the variant could be a 'precursor' to the English strain" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9095233/Italy-finds-variant-Covid-19-similar-English-strain.html Suck it up HATERS :D .......... Bump :D ........ Giggle.....Bumpy Bump :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-04-01 7:56 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-01 7:49 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-01 7:41 PM >:-) ........... "Italian variant' was found in samples from August, before first UK mutant cases Top Italian virologist says the variant could be a 'precursor' to the English strain" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9095233/Italy-finds-variant-Covid-19-similar-English-strain.html Suck it up HATERS :D .......... Bump :D ........ Giggle.....Bumpy Bump :D ....... Snigger.......Bumpty bump bump (lol) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Who are the HATERS ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 John52 - 2021-04-01 8:05 PM Who are the HATERS ? Dont you have a mirror in your builders van? ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-04-01 8:06 PM John52 - 2021-04-01 8:05 PM Who are the HATERS ? Dont you have a mirror in your builders van? ;-) ........ Is that your way of saying I'm one of them? I don't even know what I am supposed to hate because, as I have told you many times, I can't load Daily Mail links when out in the van. However many times you bump the thread *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 John52 - 2021-04-01 8:08 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-01 8:06 PM John52 - 2021-04-01 8:05 PM Who are the HATERS ? Dont you have a mirror in your builders van? ;-) ........ Is that your way of saying I'm one of them? I don't even know what I am supposed to hate because, as I have told you many times, I can't load Daily Mail links when out in the van. However many times you bump the thread *-) Are you not jumping on Macron the Morons bandwagon along with your fellow forum HATERS? ;-) ...... BTW the clues in the first two lines :D ......... "Italian variant' was found in samples from August, before first UK mutant cases Top Italian virologist says the variant could be a 'precursor' to the English strain" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Just for Joke52 ;-) .......... A strain of the coronavirus very similar to the UK mutation was already circulating in Italy as early as August, a top virologist has said. The 'Italian variant' was spreading weeks before the first known cases of the UK strain and could even have been a 'precursor' to the mutation in England, according to Arnaldo Caruso, the president of the Italian Society of Virology. Scientists found the strain by analysing swab samples from a patient who had suffered an unusually persistent Covid-19 infection, Caruso told Adnkronos. 'To our surprise we realised that we had identified a new variant, similar but not identical to the English variant that was also starting to circulate in Italy,' he said. The similarity 'between the variant we have identified and the English one leads us to think that the former may have actually generated the others that are emerging today in our continent,' he added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-04-01 8:19 PM Just for Joke52 ;-) .......... A strain of the coronavirus very similar to the UK mutation was already circulating in Italy as early as August, a top virologist has said. The 'Italian variant' was spreading weeks before the first known cases of the UK strain and could even have been a 'precursor' to the mutation in England, according to Arnaldo Caruso, the president of the Italian Society of Virology. Scientists found the strain by analysing swab samples from a patient who had suffered an unusually persistent Covid-19 infection, Caruso told Adnkronos. 'To our surprise we realised that we had identified a new variant, similar but not identical to the English variant that was also starting to circulate in Italy,' he said. The similarity 'between the variant we have identified and the English one leads us to think that the former may have actually generated the others that are emerging today in our continent,' he added. From that esteemed scientific journal the Daily Mail, I bet it hasn't been peer reviewed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-04-01 8:34 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-01 8:19 PM Just for Joke52 ;-) .......... A strain of the coronavirus very similar to the UK mutation was already circulating in Italy as early as August, a top virologist has said. The 'Italian variant' was spreading weeks before the first known cases of the UK strain and could even have been a 'precursor' to the mutation in England, according to Arnaldo Caruso, the president of the Italian Society of Virology. Scientists found the strain by analysing swab samples from a patient who had suffered an unusually persistent Covid-19 infection, Caruso told Adnkronos. 'To our surprise we realised that we had identified a new variant, similar but not identical to the English variant that was also starting to circulate in Italy,' he said. The similarity 'between the variant we have identified and the English one leads us to think that the former may have actually generated the others that are emerging today in our continent,' he added. From that esteemed scientific journal the Daily Mail, I bet it hasn't been peer reviewed? Are you saying the Italian scientists are lying? 8-) .......... That's not very friendly of EU (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 How many more times do we have to point out lies in the Daily Mail before you stop treating it as your bible *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 John52 - 2021-04-02 7:07 AM How many more times do we have to point out lies in the Daily Mail before you stop treating it as your bible *-) From the link ;-) .......... "The 'Italian variant' was spreading weeks before the first known cases of the UK strain and could even have been a 'precursor' to the mutation in England, according to Arnaldo Caruso, the president of the Italian Society of Virology." Are you calling the president of the Italian Society of Virology a Liar? 8-) ........ MThead wont like that :D.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-04-01 9:03 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-01 7:56 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-01 7:49 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-01 7:41 PM >:-) ........... "Italian variant' was found in samples from August, before first UK mutant cases Top Italian virologist says the variant could be a 'precursor' to the English strain" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9095233/Italy-finds-variant-Covid-19-similar-English-strain.html Suck it up HATERS :D .......... Bump :D ........ Giggle.....Bumpy Bump :D ....... Snigger.......Bumpty bump bump (lol) ....... I found the original article. It speaks of only one case (immediately isolated) and is so full of conditional tense verbs that claiming that it affected the British variant is like claiming that Gavrilo Princip personally killed all the fallen of the First World War when instead everyone knows that they are due to the four European Emperors (including the English one). -------------- You lost In your ravings and in your hatred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 mtravel - 2021-04-02 9:26 AM pelmetman - 2021-04-01 9:03 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-01 7:56 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-01 7:49 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-01 7:41 PM >:-) ........... "Italian variant' was found in samples from August, before first UK mutant cases Top Italian virologist says the variant could be a 'precursor' to the English strain" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9095233/Italy-finds-variant-Covid-19-similar-English-strain.html Suck it up HATERS :D .......... Bump :D ........ Giggle.....Bumpy Bump :D ....... Snigger.......Bumpty bump bump (lol) ....... I found the original article. It speaks of only one case (immediately isolated) and is so full of conditional tense verbs that claiming that it affected the British variant is like claiming that Gavrilo Princip personally killed all the fallen of the First World War when instead everyone knows that they are due to the four European Emperors (including the English one). -------------- You lost In your ravings and in your hatred Evidence? ;-) .............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-04-02 10:30 AM Evidence? ;-) .............. La Repubblica which is a serious newspaper as opposed to those whose content you spread on the net. If you can't read languages other than your own self, I certainly won't help you. Get help from google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 Here you go; from La Repubblica via Google translate :-D "Coronavirus, discovery "Italian variant similar to the English one" It has been circulating since August. Arnaldo Caruso, president of the Italian virology company: "The vaccine should fight it anyway but studies are ongoing" DECEMBER 28TH, 2020 "A variant" of Sars-CoV-2 coronavirus has been circulating in Italy since early August "very similar to the infamous English variant". An "Italian variant" discovered in Brescia, "which precedes the variant that emerged only at the end of September in the United Kingdom and then spread to Europe, including Italy, and could also be a precursor". Arnaldo Caruso,president of the Italian Society of Virology (Siv-Isv), professor of Microbiology and Clinical Microbiology at the University of Brescia, director of the Microbiology Laboratory of the Asst Spedali Civili, announces this to Adnkronos Salute. The variant identified, he explains, "has several mutation points in the Spike protein. Like the English one, the Italian variant also has a mutation in a nerve point of the Spike/cell receptor interaction, more precisely in position 501". But unlike the mutant Gb, "the Italian variant also has a second mutation in position 493, which makes its Spike protein slightly different from that of the pandemic virus that we all know today". "But how did you come to describe the Italian variant?" "Coincidentally- says Caruso - observing an abnormal viral persistence in a patient who had suffered from Covid-19 in April. Even after recovery, tampons from August onwards had always been successful with high-charge viruses. In November we decided to sequence the virus to understand why this persistence, and to our surprise we realized that we had identified a new variant, similar but not identical to the English variant that was also beginning to circulate in Italy. At this point we also sequenced a sample of the same patient obtained in August", discovering that "the varied Spike was already present then, with all its mutations". "We do not know if the English variant emerged exactly at the end of September, as well as ours at the beginning of August - specifies the number one of virologists - A temporal analysis of the Sars-CoV-2 sequences, carried out by the group of Massimo Ciccozzi", epidemiologist of the Campus BioMedico university in Rome, "tells us that this new Italian variant may have been generated around the beginning of July. What we can say from Mr Ciccozzi's studies is that ours is certainly the first evidence of mutations in the Spike protein at the level of position 501 in Italy and perhaps, at least to date, in Europe. The homology of sequence between the variant we identified and the English one leads us to think that the former may have in fact generated the others that are emerging on our continent today. But to affirm this it is necessary to reconstruct its steps, and we need many analyses of the viral genome that are not yet available". But is there any fear that the Covid vaccine may not work on the Italian variant? "Theoretically not - caruso replies - The vaccine generates a complex response to many areas of the Spike protein", so, "even if there were some antibodies not able to recognize a mutated area like the one in position 501 or 493, there would certainly be others able to bind to un mutated portions of the protein. Their binding would be enough to prevent the interaction between Spike and the cell receptor, even if only for a kind of 'steric footprint' that antibodies would create on the surface of the virus. In a short time, however, we will have a certain answer to this question." "The high viral load present in the swabs of August and November" performed on the patient who did not negativize "allowed us to isolate viral mutants in Brescia. This - says Caruso - will allow us to try these viruses with the serums of Covid-19 patients obtained during the first pandemic wave, and to evaluate the ability of antibodies to neutralize this variant compared to previously circulating viral strains. As soon as they are available, serums of vaccinated patients will also be evaluated in a similar way. I remain optimistic at the moment", concludes the president of the Italian virologists." Which, as before, merely amounts to a further demonstration of what we already knew - that viruses mutate continually. This is similar to, but not identical to, the Kent variant. So, if someone had travelled from Italy to Kent carrying this variant it might prove to be the precursor of the Kent variant, or it might just as easily be the case that the two mutations evolved separately in different locations. But does it really matter, it is just a virus doing what viruses do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 But does it really matter, it is just a virus doing what viruses do? It matters to Dave Brian because of his loathing of foreigners and how (in his opinion) they have the audacity to label a Variant "The Blighty / Kent / British Virus". Its all down to the "Do you know who we are" English Exceptionalism. He was probably like many that assumed this Virus would just infect funny foreigners when in fact its hit the UK harder than pretty much anywhere thanks to an inept government and its been allowed to get out of control which increases the chance of such a variant emerging. Because of that of course we have now passed back a much more infectious variant to our European friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 Barryd999 - 2021-04-02 4:53 PM But does it really matter, it is just a virus doing what viruses do? It matters to Dave Brian because of his loathing of foreigners and how (in his opinion) they have the audacity to label a Variant "The Blighty / Kent / British Virus". Its all down to the "Do you know who we are" English Exceptionalism. He was probably like many that assumed this Virus would just infect funny foreigners when in fact its hit the UK harder than pretty much anywhere thanks to an inept government and its been allowed to get out of control which increases the chance of such a variant emerging. Because of that of course we have now passed back a much more infectious variant to our European friends. You're right, of course, Barry. Mea culpa. :-) I should have acknowledged his exceptionalism (which is, well, exceptional :-D), and said "But does it really matter to anyone other than Dave, it is just a virus doing what viruses do". My mistake! Apologies to Dave. (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-04-02 1:24 PM Here you go; from La Repubblica via Google translate :-D "Coronavirus, discovery "Italian variant similar to the English one" It has been circulating since August. Arnaldo Caruso, president of the Italian virology company: "The vaccine should fight it anyway but studies are ongoing" DECEMBER 28TH, 2020 "A variant" of Sars-CoV-2 coronavirus has been circulating in Italy since early August "very similar to the infamous English variant". An "Italian variant" discovered in Brescia, "which precedes the variant that emerged only at the end of September in the United Kingdom and then spread to Europe, including Italy, and could also be a precursor". Arnaldo Caruso,president of the Italian Society of Virology (Siv-Isv), professor of Microbiology and Clinical Microbiology at the University of Brescia, director of the Microbiology Laboratory of the Asst Spedali Civili, announces this to Adnkronos Salute. The variant identified, he explains, "has several mutation points in the Spike protein. Like the English one, the Italian variant also has a mutation in a nerve point of the Spike/cell receptor interaction, more precisely in position 501". But unlike the mutant Gb, "the Italian variant also has a second mutation in position 493, which makes its Spike protein slightly different from that of the pandemic virus that we all know today". "But how did you come to describe the Italian variant?" "Coincidentally- says Caruso - observing an abnormal viral persistence in a patient who had suffered from Covid-19 in April. Even after recovery, tampons from August onwards had always been successful with high-charge viruses. In November we decided to sequence the virus to understand why this persistence, and to our surprise we realized that we had identified a new variant, similar but not identical to the English variant that was also beginning to circulate in Italy. At this point we also sequenced a sample of the same patient obtained in August", discovering that "the varied Spike was already present then, with all its mutations". "We do not know if the English variant emerged exactly at the end of September, as well as ours at the beginning of August - specifies the number one of virologists - A temporal analysis of the Sars-CoV-2 sequences, carried out by the group of Massimo Ciccozzi", epidemiologist of the Campus BioMedico university in Rome, "tells us that this new Italian variant may have been generated around the beginning of July. What we can say from Mr Ciccozzi's studies is that ours is certainly the first evidence of mutations in the Spike protein at the level of position 501 in Italy and perhaps, at least to date, in Europe. The homology of sequence between the variant we identified and the English one leads us to think that the former may have in fact generated the others that are emerging on our continent today. But to affirm this it is necessary to reconstruct its steps, and we need many analyses of the viral genome that are not yet available". But is there any fear that the Covid vaccine may not work on the Italian variant? "Theoretically not - caruso replies - The vaccine generates a complex response to many areas of the Spike protein", so, "even if there were some antibodies not able to recognize a mutated area like the one in position 501 or 493, there would certainly be others able to bind to un mutated portions of the protein. Their binding would be enough to prevent the interaction between Spike and the cell receptor, even if only for a kind of 'steric footprint' that antibodies would create on the surface of the virus. In a short time, however, we will have a certain answer to this question." "The high viral load present in the swabs of August and November" performed on the patient who did not negativize "allowed us to isolate viral mutants in Brescia. This - says Caruso - will allow us to try these viruses with the serums of Covid-19 patients obtained during the first pandemic wave, and to evaluate the ability of antibodies to neutralize this variant compared to previously circulating viral strains. As soon as they are available, serums of vaccinated patients will also be evaluated in a similar way. I remain optimistic at the moment", concludes the president of the Italian virologists." Which, as before, merely amounts to a further demonstration of what we already knew - that viruses mutate continually. This is similar to, but not identical to, the Kent variant. So, if someone had travelled from Italy to Kent carrying this variant it might prove to be the precursor of the Kent variant, or it might just as easily be the case that the two mutations evolved separately in different locations. But does it really matter, it is just a virus doing what viruses do? So that "Suggests" it mutated in ITALY FIRST ;-) ........... "What we can say from Mr Ciccozzi's studies is that ours is certainly the **first evidence of mutations** in the Spike protein at the level of position 501 in Italy and perhaps, at least to date, in Europe. The homology of sequence between the variant we identified ***and the English one leads us to think that the former may have in fact generated the others that are emerging on our continent today.*** But to affirm this it is necessary to reconstruct its steps, and we need many analyses of the viral genome that are not yet available". So for accuracy the British variant should be renamed the ITALIAN/British Virus >:-) ........ Coz they started it :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-04-03 9:00 AM ............................... So that "Suggests" it mutated in ITALY FIRST ;-) ........... "What we can say from Mr Ciccozzi's studies is that ours is certainly the **first evidence of mutations** in the Spike protein at the level of position 501 in Italy and perhaps, at least to date, in Europe. The homology of sequence between the variant we identified ***and the English one leads us to think that the former may have in fact generated the others that are emerging on our continent today.*** But to affirm this it is necessary to reconstruct its steps, and we need many analyses of the viral genome that are not yet available". So for accuracy the British variant should be renamed the ITALIAN/British Virus >:-) ........ Coz they started it :D ........ Because that is what the Italian scientists are seeing from their data. OTOH, the UK scientists are not seeing the same linkage, and have said so. You are missing the significance of the sentence in bold above. All one has at present is maybe, maybe not - and it will remain so until some one "reconstructs the steps". They may, they may not, and it may, or may not, support your assertion that the mutation first came from Italy to UK. But why does it matter so to you? It is the virus that mutated, it was not mutated by being in either the UK, or Italy, or anywhere else for that matter. It just had to meet a particular person, with particular DNA, to make the recorded change to the spike. There are now several spike mutations circulating in different parts of the world. All you are seeing is natural selection working. Those mutations that give the virus an advantage over other variants simply become the most numerous - because of their advantage. Why is it so important where a random mutation took place? Have you considered the possibility that since the European populations have been swapping genes for thousands of years there are close genetic similarities between individuals who live hundreds - even thousands, of miles apart. Given that, and the high incidence of Covid in circulation, is it not possible that very closely similar mutations may have occurred in different locations? That would explain both the Brescia and the Kent variants being closely similar - just by random coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 I think you are missing the point here Brian. Dave is responding to the anti Brexit people on here and some in the EU that are saying it is the British version that is causing the problem. But as you agree the virus can have similar mutations anywhere and everywhere ,so it could be the same or similar mutations it just depends where it is detected and reported first. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 To add to the above . Surely the only place to hold to account for the virus and all mutations is China ? Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 thebishbus - 2021-04-04 7:15 PM I think you are missing the point here Brian. Dave is responding to the anti Brexit people on here and some in the EU that are saying it is the British version that is causing the problem. But as you agree the virus can have similar mutations anywhere and everywhere ,so it could be the same or similar mutations it just depends where it is detected and reported first. Brian B. It was detected first in England, and since England was having the highest number of infections and deaths is statistically most likely to have mutated in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 thebishbus - 2021-04-04 7:15 PM I think you are missing the point here Brian. Dave is responding to the anti Brexit people on here and some in the EU that are saying it is the British version that is causing the problem. But as you agree the virus can have similar mutations anywhere and everywhere ,so it could be the same or similar mutations it just depends where it is detected and reported first. Brian B. The "other" Brian deffo saw the point Brian ;-) .......... But being a dyed in the wool "Remoaner" he tried to smother it with his usual Blah Blah *-) ....... Sadly for "Them" they are becoming more irrelevent by the day :D ........ Which will prolly make "Them" even more angry (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... No doubt Joke52 will be along to stick up for his fellow LOSER >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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