nightrider Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Here is a question that is appropriate to the difficult times we are in, it has nothing to do with dole diddlers, welfare benefit cheats and the like. If you lost your job, couldn't find another one and had spent whatever money you had saved on keeping your head above water and you were forced to sign on the dole, how do you think you would manage? The reason for this post is prompted by the utilitity companys jacking up the direct debit for our gas and electric, we are in credit with our gas and electric but they seem to think it is ok to dip into our bank account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 knight of the road - 2008-11-25 9:45 AM Here is a question that is appropriate to the difficult times we are in, it has nothing to do with dole diddlers, welfare benefit cheats and the like. If you lost your job, couldn't find another one and had spent whatever money you had saved on keeping your head above water and you were forced to sign on the dole, how do you think you would manage? The reason for this post is prompted by the utilitity companys jacking up the direct debit for our gas and electric, we are in credit with our gas and electric but they seem to think it is ok to dip into our bank account. I had this problem with British Gas a couple of years ago. They wrote and told me that my ' gas consumption had been reviewed ' and they had decided to increase my direct debit by SIXTY percent. I pointed out that I had been in credit for every month but one for the previous three years. I also pointed out that I was NOT running a loan company and that if they did not adjust my direct debit back to where it was , I would cancel it and start paying by cheque. They then ' reviewed' my account again and adjusted the amount back to where it had been previously. (You don't have to put up with these clowns) :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Agreed - we had the same problem wit our electric bill last year and they were adamant that we should pay the increased amount they said we should because if we paid by cheque they would put us on another tariff. Not happy with this blackmail I said I would pay by DDM on a quarterly basis but they could only take what the bill actually said I owed. Begrudgingly the operator had to accept that this option was available to me and that is how we pay our electric bill ever since. And seeing as how our gas supplier is playing the same game - we will be doing the same with them tho' it is a tad more complicated in that having had a new mixer shower fitted it had a fault and it allowed the higher pressure mains cold water to enter the hot water system. Not a lot, but enough to force the hot water in our tank back up and into the hot water header tank in the roof and then out the overflow! Several stop cocks later we realised that this was not the problem and finally tracked it down to the new shower because we realised that when you run the hot tap it, the tap itself and the pipe leading to it should stay hot for some time - BUT on our new mixer shower the hot pipe went cold and in fact you could track the cold water coming in and pushing the hot water back down the pipe. Replaced it under warranty and I am now trying to claim from them the fuel costs incurred by comparing this last 12 months to the previous. I mention it because a plumber who I mentioned this to, said that it was a common problem with the castings of these mixer taps/showers that look lovely on the outside but are very badly cast inside where it matters. He said a lot of stuff from China is really awful quality. So be warned - if you have mixer taps - do check to make sure that the same does not happen to you or like us you will literally be throwing hot water away! ANYWAY!!! - real reason for mentioning all that on here is because we used a hell of a lot of gas for about 4 months until we realised what was happening but I am having real fun and games convincing the gas supplier that we will not be using that same amount of gas again! So going to a DDM just paying for the actual amount of gas used as we do for the electric is the only way forward for us. Plus having it in my bank account not theirs until they want it seems a better idea to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Not 'clowns' Malc and holding customers money is a well known strategy for maximising profits. Does,nt happen with other things I purchase, and just because our gas consumption can vary over the year does not mean the onus should be on the customer to make sure they are in credit to pay these bills. A much fairer system would be for BG to first to work out how much you owe them and then bill you for that amount, but that defeats the whole object of screwing every last penny out of their customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omidknight Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Thanks for tips Clive For those of us with a combi-boiler we may not get the mixer problem - is that right? Medically retired so no fear of losing job here - but if I was I would cut my cloth to suit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 howie - 2008-11-25 10:41 AM Not 'clowns' Malc and holding customers money is a well known strategy for maximising profits. Does,nt happen with other things I purchase, and just because our gas consumption can vary over the year does not mean the onus should be on the customer to make sure they are in credit to pay these bills. A much fairer system would be for BG to first to work out how much you owe them and then bill you for that amount, but that defeats the whole object of screwing every last penny out of their customers. If the utility companies take £20 extra from each consumers bank account they are on a winner, basically an interest free loan off the consumers and interest paid to them when they deposit the money in their bank, shades of Dick Turpin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 So you are a normal straight up kind of guy, on the dole, you have explored all the avenues in how to cut costs, so what else can you do? skimp on meals, cut down on heat, light and power? Start selling off your prized possessions, sell your lifetimes collection of tools and equipment where you will only be offered the bare minimum. Depending on the type of house you live in do you open up an old chimney breast in order to burn wood to keep warm ( can't afford gas) on a group I run I brought up the subject of what would you do in the event of a man made or natural disaster? it looks like we have got a man made disaster on our hands now which is beginning to bite and will only get worse. Sorry for the doom and gloom but it is a subject well worth some thought and after all this is a forum for discussing anything and everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick H. Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Well at this moment in time I think my choice of lifestyle is the right one.Might not suit everybody but no electric or gas companies dipping in my bank account.Nobody charging astronomical amounts to live in a house thats paid for.The crunch might cut down on our earning ability ,but there is the pension coming in. so at the moment, O.K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 knight of the road - 2008-11-25 2:28 PM So you are a normal straight up kind of guy, on the dole, you have explored all the avenues in how to cut costs, so what else can you do? skimp on meals, cut down on heat, light and power? Start selling off your prized possessions, sell your lifetimes collection of tools and equipment where you will only be offered the bare minimum. Depending on the type of house you live in do you open up an old chimney breast in order to burn wood to keep warm ( can't afford gas) on a group I run I brought up the subject of what would you do in the event of a man made or natural disaster? it looks like we have got a man made disaster on our hands now which is beginning to bite and will only get worse. Sorry for the doom and gloom but it is a subject well worth some thought and after all this is a forum for discussing anything and everything. I wouldn't be selling any tools. If you are short of money you can save hundreds by D.I.Y. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 howie - 2008-11-25 10:41 AM Not 'clowns' Malc and holding customers money is a well known strategy for maximising profits. Does,nt happen with other things I purchase, and just because our gas consumption can vary over the year does not mean the onus should be on the customer to make sure they are in credit to pay these bills. A much fairer system would be for BG to first to work out how much you owe them and then bill you for that amount, but that defeats the whole object of screwing every last penny out of their customers. Quite right Howie - they're not really clowns ( although they do make me laugh ), probably 'SPIVs' would be a better description. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Malcolm - It is a valid subject indeed for discussion, and to my mind there have already been some well-thought-through responses. I guess the bottom line is that it would be very very hard for anyone to cope in such a situation, because those circumstances would force upon most of us a huge change in our lifestyle. In the UK it's not an issue about starving to death, or watching your children die of starvation, as might well occur in such a no-job situation in many mnay other countries around the world. But in RELATIVE terms, compared to the extremely comfortable lifestyles that most people in the Western world enjoy, existing on Social Security benefits in the UK is not gonna be fun. Not at all. As to whether in such circumstances I would personally begin committing crimes to increase my income, I cannot honestly answer that question. I would hope not. But I cannot say that with certainty. All I can say is that to do so (be they crimes of theft/burglary against other individuals, or crimes of fraud against the other tax payers whose work and thus taxes are funding my Social Security benefits) involves a risk. A risk of being caught, fined or imprisoned. Each person would, I guess, weigh up the benefit to them of committing such crimes against either other individuals or society as a whole, against the likelihood of being caught, and the likely penalty after being caught. From a sociological viewpoint, I guess the big problem with the idea of "not grassing up your neighbour" is that it simply encourages more people to embark on such frauds, because it reduces the likelihood of being caught stealing in such a way. People are generally put off committing crimes by the likelihood of being caught/punished, and thus getting a negative benefit from that activity. If it was your money that an social security fraudster had stolen, by instead burgling your house or your Motorhome, I reckon any of us would be furious, and would be demanding that the Police find and the courts prosecute that criminal. I'm not entirely clear as to when a social security fraudster is instead stealing money from the taxes you pay....which still reduces your personal wage income/wealth/savings in exactly the same way, and is a criminal act, the approach of many people is so different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 Fortunately I have never been in the position of having to steal or fiddle anything, apart from the punishment if caught, jail or a fine it is the thought of having my name in the paper bringing shame on my family that is the deciding factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omidknight Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 knight of the road - 2008-11-25 4:42 PM Fortunately I have never been in the position of having to steal /QUOTE] not even scrumping when you were a little boy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 omidknight - 2008-11-25 6:21 PM knight of the road - 2008-11-25 4:42 PM Fortunately I have never been in the position of having to steal /QUOTE] not even scrumping when you were a little boy? Scrumping apples? memories, did more than scrump apples, got a clout round the head off sergeant Steel many a time, think I was a bit of a Huckleberry Finn when I was a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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