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When will we see the benefits?
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userteflon2
Posted: 8 July 2020 6:30 PM
Subject: RE: When will we see the benefits?
 
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Brian Kirby - 2020-07-08 11:22 AM

teflon2 - 2020-07-07 6:49 PM...……………….So you seem to accept that lies, cheating deceit and fraud is OK when it's expedient. No wonder you wanted to remain in the EU as they are past masters at it.

I'm sorry John, but the above is the kind of ludicrous, reductio ad absurdum, comment that makes all sensible discussion impossible.

First, the states that engaged in debt hiding did so of their own volition in order to get into the Euro. Second, if the EU were as aware at the time as the rumours suggested (but why am I telling you this, weren't you in UK at the time of the Euro launch?) they had a choice: either pull the Euro launch, launch in the midst of an international row over the exclusion of the "dodgy" states - of which there were several, not just Greece, which would itself have prejudiced confidence in the fledgling currency - or let them in and launch anyway in the hope that time, and events, would allow the Euro to become accepted internationally as a safely tradeable currency.

For political reasons, they chose the latter. It is called realpolitik: it is what politicians do when confronted with unpalatable truths.

If you really think that other politicians, from other countries, faced with similarly awkward decisions, behave any differently, you must have spent your life in a hermetically sealed echo chamber.

Are you really trying to argue that politics in other EU countries is conducted in a less honest, more corrupt, environment than our own, or just that when those politicians become involved at EU level they become corrupted, dishonest, actors?.

Just look back at what our own politicians have told us about the EEC/EU since we joined, and then check those statements against what the record shows. You will find copious instances of UK ministers, more than a handful of MEPs, and any number of journalists who, to coin a phrase, were "economical with la verité".

The EU, being a confederation of (at that time - 1995) 11 states, with a further three about to join, just made the political processes more fraught, so the realpolitik more necessary to assist getting their previously agreed objectives implemented.

Do you really think the UK is exempt from this? So why should the EU have to become this unique paragon of virtue? To make omelettes, one must break eggs. It is reality.




That's alright Brian no need to apologise.
You seem to have become over exited just because I pointed out that you closing comment looked as though you felt that the behavior that you pointed out was acceptable.
I agree many political systems have the propensity for underhand and dishonest behavior but we do not have to be embroiled in the quagmire of the EU thus we are involved in one less organisation that is corrupted by it.

One question why do you have to resort to a different language to make a comment that is easily given in the Queens English does it somehow empower you
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 8 July 2020 7:12 PM
Subject: RE: When will we see the benefits?
 


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teflon2 - 2020-07-08 6:30 PM...………………….One question why do you have to resort to a different language to make a comment that is easily given in the Queens English does it somehow empower you

AFAIK it is a fairly well established and common expression. No, I don't expect any empowerment from it, it just came to mind as it neatly captures the sentiment I was trying to convey. Its a bit like using "schadenfreude" instead of trying to capture its meaning in English. It was just a case of whatever came to mind at the time.

Is the realpolitik (sorry another import!) acceptable? I think it has to be accepted, as the practise is as old as politics itself. It is mostly a tactic to smooth difficult issues to fruition, so that all sides can claim a kind of "win" without loss of face. To that extent I think it was justified as, arguably, it worked for the two years until the European debt crisis made it manifest in 2010, by which time the Euro had more or less earned its spurs. Didn't solve the underlying problem, of course, but I think it debatable whether the Euro would exist today had that risk not been taken, and their objective was the launch of the Euro.
userBulletguy
Posted: 8 July 2020 7:25 PM
Subject: RE: When will we see the benefits?
 


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Brian Kirby - 2020-07-08 4:57 PM

Bulletguy - 2020-07-08 3:51 PM............…......Oh dear.....only one Gerrrrmun there with the others from France, Spain, Italy and Belgium.

I know, but keep it to yourself, as the Brexiters hate facts! Dave will be along in a minute to tell us they are really all German, but changed their names to disguise that!

He'll be researching the family history of each to see if he can find a whiff of Gerrrmun anywhere. If any of 'em drive a Merc....that'll be enough.
userpelmetman
Posted: 9 July 2020 9:14 AM
Subject: RE: When will we see the benefits?
 


Walks with the gods

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Brian Kirby - 2020-07-08 3:29 PM

pelmetman - 2020-07-08 1:52 PM
Brian Kirby - 2020-07-08 1:10 PM
pelmetman - 2020-07-08 8:38 AM
Brian Kirby - 2020-07-07 4:01 PM
pepe63 - 2020-07-07 2:02 PM...………………..If the EU is really that bad, that poorly run and that corrupt (and it may well be all of those things, who knows?) then why on earth would leave voters choose to live within it's borders?

And why would the other 27 member states all wish to remain a part of it - unless of course, the Brexiters think the other 27 states are also "that bad, that poorly run and that corrupt", in which case they at least show consistent prejudice!

Half of that 27 are net recievers ..........and the other half prolly see paying off the Fourth Reich as a cheaper option than having them invade again ..........

Which is "prollyl" paranoid crap!

1 So no EU countries get more out than they put in? ......…
2 and all the top jobs in the EU dont have a German in charge? ..........
3 I rather be paranoid than a German sycophant any day of the week .......

1 Of course they do. So what? Does every council in the UK receive the same sum in grants from government?
2 Here you go, Dave, a bit of fact :https://tinyurl.com/y5g3q27u So, prejudice rules, KO?
3 See 2 above - it seems your wish was miraculously granted! You're right though, I should probably have said "prolly Germanophobic paranoiac crap" instead of just "prolly paranoid crap". Still, since the result is crap either way, why get picky?


Kinda ironic how every Loony Liberal Lefty and his dog is slagging of Britain for having "HAD" an empire .......

Yet are happy to ignore the one being built under their noses by the Fourth Reich? ..........

Empire | Definition of Empire at Dictionary.com

www.dictionary.com/browse/empire

noun a group of nations or peoples ruled over by an emperor, empress, or other powerful sovereign or+++ government:+++ usually a territory of greater extent than a kingdom, as the former British Empire, French Empire, Russian Empire, Byzantine Empire, or Roman Empire. a government under an emperor or empress.





Edited by pelmetman 2020-07-09 9:18 AM
userBarryd999
Posted: 9 July 2020 10:52 AM
Subject: RE: When will we see the benefits?
 


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No sh1t Sherlock!

https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-liz-truss-letter-boris-johnson-brexit-border-plans-concerns-risks-2020-7?r=US&IR=T

I am seeing a lot of this at the moment. Brexiteers realising stuff we have been telling them for years. Its like they have been in some kind of timewarp.
userBirdbrain
Posted: 9 July 2020 12:03 PM
Subject: RE: When will we see the benefits?
 


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Barryd999 - 2020-07-09 10:52 AM

No sh1t Sherlock!

https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-liz-truss-letter-boris-johnson-brexit-border-plans-concerns-risks-2020-7?r=US&IR=T

I am seeing a lot of this at the moment. Brexiteers realising stuff we have been telling them for years. Its like they have been in some kind of timewarp.


Youve spoke to loads of folk that changed their minds n'all ... Chuckle ... Dream on
userpelmetman
Posted: 9 July 2020 12:22 PM
Subject: RE: When will we see the benefits?
 


Walks with the gods

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Location: Brexit On Sea. 1990 Ford Travelhome.


Barryd999 - 2020-07-09 10:52 AM

No sh1t Sherlock!

https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-liz-truss-letter-boris-johnson-brexit-border-plans-concerns-risks-2020-7?r=US&IR=T

I am seeing a lot of this at the moment. Brexiteers realising stuff we have been telling them for years. Its like they have been in some kind of timewarp.


You mean we will get illegal immigrants trying to sneak into the UK? .........

No sh1t Sherlock! .........

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 9 July 2020 12:45 PM
Subject: RE: When will we see the benefits?
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2020-07-09 9:14 AM
Brian Kirby - 2020-07-08 3:29 PM
pelmetman - 2020-07-08 1:52 PM
Brian Kirby - 2020-07-08 1:10 PM
pelmetman - 2020-07-08 8:38 AM
Brian Kirby - 2020-07-07 4:01 PM
pepe63 - 2020-07-07 2:02 PM...………………..If the EU is really that bad, that poorly run and that corrupt (and it may well be all of those things, who knows?) then why on earth would leave voters choose to live within it's borders?

And why would the other 27 member states all wish to remain a part of it - unless of course, the Brexiters think the other 27 states are also "that bad, that poorly run and that corrupt", in which case they at least show consistent prejudice!

Half of that 27 are net recievers ..........and the other half prolly see paying off the Fourth Reich as a cheaper option than having them invade again ..........

Which is "prollyl" paranoid crap!

1 So no EU countries get more out than they put in? ......…
2 and all the top jobs in the EU dont have a German in charge? ..........
3 I rather be paranoid than a German sycophant any day of the week .......

1 Of course they do. So what? Does every council in the UK receive the same sum in grants from government?
2 Here you go, Dave, a bit of fact :https://tinyurl.com/y5g3q27u So, prejudice rules, KO?
3 See 2 above - it seems your wish was miraculously granted! You're right though, I should probably have said "prolly Germanophobic paranoiac crap" instead of just "prolly paranoid crap". Still, since the result is crap either way, why get picky?

Kinda ironic how every Loony Liberal Lefty and his dog is slagging of Britain for having "HAD" an empire .......
Yet are happy to ignore the one being built under their noses by the Fourth Reich? ..........
Empire | Definition of Empire at Dictionary.com
www.dictionary.com/browse/empire
noun a group of nations or peoples ruled over by an emperor, empress, or other powerful sovereign or+++ government:+++ usually a territory of greater extent than a kingdom, as the former British Empire, French Empire, Russian Empire, Byzantine Empire, or Roman Empire. a government under an emperor or empress.

Can you point to where, in the EU, that "emperor, empress, or other powerful sovereign or government" actually resides? It's all in your paranoid head, I promise.

You don't, and seemingly never have, understood what the EU is or how it functions, so you've invented some malevolent Prince of Darkness in its place - apparently because it includes Germany. But why on earth do you have this crippling hang-up with Germany? Is it all to do with the World Cup?
userpelmetman
Posted: 9 July 2020 12:56 PM
Subject: RE: When will we see the benefits?
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 31926
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Location: Brexit On Sea. 1990 Ford Travelhome.


Brian Kirby - 2020-07-09 12:45 PM

pelmetman - 2020-07-09 9:14 AM
Brian Kirby - 2020-07-08 3:29 PM
pelmetman - 2020-07-08 1:52 PM
Brian Kirby - 2020-07-08 1:10 PM
pelmetman - 2020-07-08 8:38 AM
Brian Kirby - 2020-07-07 4:01 PM
pepe63 - 2020-07-07 2:02 PM...………………..If the EU is really that bad, that poorly run and that corrupt (and it may well be all of those things, who knows?) then why on earth would leave voters choose to live within it's borders?

And why would the other 27 member states all wish to remain a part of it - unless of course, the Brexiters think the other 27 states are also "that bad, that poorly run and that corrupt", in which case they at least show consistent prejudice!

Half of that 27 are net recievers ..........and the other half prolly see paying off the Fourth Reich as a cheaper option than having them invade again ..........

Which is "prollyl" paranoid crap!

1 So no EU countries get more out than they put in? ......…
2 and all the top jobs in the EU dont have a German in charge? ..........
3 I rather be paranoid than a German sycophant any day of the week .......

1 Of course they do. So what? Does every council in the UK receive the same sum in grants from government?
2 Here you go, Dave, a bit of fact :https://tinyurl.com/y5g3q27u So, prejudice rules, KO?
3 See 2 above - it seems your wish was miraculously granted! You're right though, I should probably have said "prolly Germanophobic paranoiac crap" instead of just "prolly paranoid crap". Still, since the result is crap either way, why get picky?

Kinda ironic how every Loony Liberal Lefty and his dog is slagging of Britain for having "HAD" an empire .......
Yet are happy to ignore the one being built under their noses by the Fourth Reich? ..........
Empire | Definition of Empire at Dictionary.com
www.dictionary.com/browse/empire
noun a group of nations or peoples ruled over by an emperor, empress, or other powerful sovereign or+++ government:+++ usually a territory of greater extent than a kingdom, as the former British Empire, French Empire, Russian Empire, Byzantine Empire, or Roman Empire. a government under an emperor or empress.

Can you point to where, in the EU, that "emperor, empress, or other powerful sovereign or government" actually resides? It's all in your paranoid head, I promise.

You don't, and seemingly never have, understood what the EU is or how it functions, so you've invented some malevolent Prince of Darkness in its place - apparently because it includes Germany. But why on earth do you have this crippling hang-up with Germany? Is it all to do with the World Cup?


It's funny how that Common Market we joined is slowly morphing into the United Federalist states of the Fourth Reich innit? ...........

Mrs Merkel maybe a benign Empress.........But she ain't going to be in charge forever is she? ........

Unfortunately she's gonna have to start spending her own dosh to prop up her European Empire from the 1/1/2021 .........

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 9 July 2020 1:21 PM
Subject: RE: When will we see the benefits?
 


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pelmetman - 2020-07-09 12:56 PM
..........................It's funny how that Common Market we joined is slowly morphing into the United Federalist states of the Fourth Reich innit? ...........
Mrs Merkel maybe a benign Empress.........But she ain't going to be in charge forever is she? ........
Unfortunately she's gonna have to start spending her own dosh to prop up her European Empire from the 1/1/2021 ......…

First, you didn't understand even then, when you couldn't vote, what that thing you think was a "Common Market" actually was, did you? It never was that.
Merkel is no Empress. If she were, she would be there forever. So, where is your Empress? She was a girl who grew up in eastern Germany (the DDR), a USSR satellite state. She is the elected Chancellor of Germany, which is the equivalent of UK PM. So, using the same logic, Boris is an Emperor?
Germany already contributes more into the EU than any other country ever has, and gets back less that it contributes. So nothing changes there, except that Germany's contribution will rise, along with those of the other net contributors, or the benefits to the net gainers will have to fall, which probably means prices will rise in Spain! Oops!
userBulletguy
Posted: 9 July 2020 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: When will we see the benefits?
 


The special one

Posts: 13710
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Location: Cheshire


Brian Kirby - 2020-07-09 12:45 PM

pelmetman - 2020-07-09 9:14 AM
Brian Kirby - 2020-07-08 3:29 PM
pelmetman - 2020-07-08 1:52 PM
Brian Kirby - 2020-07-08 1:10 PM
pelmetman - 2020-07-08 8:38 AM
Brian Kirby - 2020-07-07 4:01 PM
pepe63 - 2020-07-07 2:02 PM...………………..If the EU is really that bad, that poorly run and that corrupt (and it may well be all of those things, who knows?) then why on earth would leave voters choose to live within it's borders?

And why would the other 27 member states all wish to remain a part of it - unless of course, the Brexiters think the other 27 states are also "that bad, that poorly run and that corrupt", in which case they at least show consistent prejudice!

Half of that 27 are net recievers ..........and the other half prolly see paying off the Fourth Reich as a cheaper option than having them invade again ..........

Which is "prollyl" paranoid crap!

1 So no EU countries get more out than they put in? ......…
2 and all the top jobs in the EU dont have a German in charge? ..........
3 I rather be paranoid than a German sycophant any day of the week .......

1 Of course they do. So what? Does every council in the UK receive the same sum in grants from government?
2 Here you go, Dave, a bit of fact :https://tinyurl.com/y5g3q27u So, prejudice rules, KO?
3 See 2 above - it seems your wish was miraculously granted! You're right though, I should probably have said "prolly Germanophobic paranoiac crap" instead of just "prolly paranoid crap". Still, since the result is crap either way, why get picky?

Kinda ironic how every Loony Liberal Lefty and his dog is slagging of Britain for having "HAD" an empire .......
Yet are happy to ignore the one being built under their noses by the Fourth Reich? ..........
Empire | Definition of Empire at Dictionary.com
www.dictionary.com/browse/empire
noun a group of nations or peoples ruled over by an emperor, empress, or other powerful sovereign or+++ government:+++ usually a territory of greater extent than a kingdom, as the former British Empire, French Empire, Russian Empire, Byzantine Empire, or Roman Empire. a government under an emperor or empress.

Can you point to where, in the EU, that "emperor, empress, or other powerful sovereign or government" actually resides? It's all in your paranoid head, I promise.

You don't, and seemingly never have, understood what the EU is or how it functions, so you've invented some malevolent Prince of Darkness in its place - apparently because it includes Germany. But why on earth do you have this crippling hang-up with Germany? Is it all to do with the World Cup?

An irrational phobia displayed by his constant reference to Germany as "Fourth Reich" and dislike of German vehicles.......yet buys automotive parts from.......Germany!!!
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 9 July 2020 4:27 PM
Subject: RE: When will we see the benefits?
 


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Bulletguy - 2020-07-09 3:31 PM...............….An irrational phobia displayed by his constant reference to Germany as "Fourth Reich" and dislike of German vehicles.......yet buys automotive parts from.......Germany!!!

Perhaps his Mum was frightened by a German when she was pregnant? They say that can have strange effects on the baby!
userBarryd999
Posted: 9 July 2020 4:52 PM
Subject: RE: When will we see the benefits?
 


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Birdbrain - 2020-07-09 12:03 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-07-09 10:52 AM

No sh1t Sherlock!

https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-liz-truss-letter-boris-johnson-brexit-border-plans-concerns-risks-2020-7?r=US&IR=T

I am seeing a lot of this at the moment. Brexiteers realising stuff we have been telling them for years. Its like they have been in some kind of timewarp.


Youve spoke to loads of folk that changed their minds n'all ... Chuckle ... Dream on


Nope. I gave up trying to talk people out of wanting Brexit a long time ago. However the recent European survey shows only 35% in the UK would now vote for Brexit and that support for EU membership within the other EU countries is higher than ever.

https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-poll-most-british-people-want-to-rejoin-eu-2020-6?r=US&IR=T

Too late now of course but you have to remember that the UK is not producing Brexiteers anymore but it probably is producing a lot of remainers. I would imagine Brexit will have to be as good as you all said it would be to change that.
userpelmetman
Posted: 9 July 2020 9:43 PM
Subject: RE: When will we see the benefits?
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 31926
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Location: Brexit On Sea. 1990 Ford Travelhome.


Brian Kirby - 2020-07-09 1:21 PM

pelmetman - 2020-07-09 12:56 PM
..........................It's funny how that Common Market we joined is slowly morphing into the United Federalist states of the Fourth Reich innit? ...........
Mrs Merkel maybe a benign Empress.........But she ain't going to be in charge forever is she? ........
Unfortunately she's gonna have to start spending her own dosh to prop up her European Empire from the 1/1/2021 ......…

First, you didn't understand even then, when you couldn't vote, what that thing you think was a "Common Market" actually was, did you? It never was that.


So admitting that the UK was lied to is supposed to bolster your argument? ..........

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 10 July 2020 12:20 PM
Subject: RE: When will we see the benefits?
 


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pelmetman - 2020-07-09 9:43 PM
Brian Kirby - 2020-07-09 1:21 PM
pelmetman - 2020-07-09 12:56 PM
..........................It's funny how that Common Market we joined is slowly morphing into the United Federalist states of the Fourth Reich innit? ...........
Mrs Merkel maybe a benign Empress.........But she ain't going to be in charge forever is she? ........
Unfortunately she's gonna have to start spending her own dosh to prop up her European Empire from the 1/1/2021 ......…

First, you didn't understand even then, when you couldn't vote, what that thing you think was a "Common Market" actually was, did you? It never was that.

So admitting that the UK was lied to is supposed to bolster your argument? ..........

But who do you think lied? When you reveal that, I'll rest my case.
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