ROON Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Just been on the news again about the Government's GET TOUGH (?) policy on carrying knives ... to make the culprits visit the victims of knife attacks to see the damage done..... Is it only me that thinks this is neither use nor ornament ..... some of these people don't have a conscience. Girls egg young men on to attack innocent victims, even hand them their weapons ..... did the attackers of young Sophie Lancaster (I know it wasn't knife but still atrocious) show any remorse as the attack was carried out.... no .... they laugh as they stand in court.... I'm sick and tired of feeling so desperate of the way that the world is going...... is it just me? I really DO feel physically sick inside when the news comes on. Joy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 No you are not alone, but no one listens to us anymore. Did they ever? It is not carrying knives that is the problem it is the lack of morals, boundaries and respect that has not been drummed into them by their parent/s. Your point about the poor girl Sophie proves that I believe! Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syd Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I am lying in hospital with serious stab wounds, now I ask you, will I want to see some young yob who has stabbed someone else, smirking at me. Oh yes, that would really make me feel better, it would probably make my blood pressure go through the ceiling. What a stupid idea that is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Why is it that I read three sensible comments above that I agree with and then listen with despair at the numpty nonsense from our politicians? You are right - we are not listened to. Who on earth thinks that the problem of feral families bringing up ever more feral children is going to stop if they see the "upset" they have caused? If these people have mothers that laugh after one of them kicks a poor girl in the head just for looking different - what on earth does Gordon Brown think they will do on a visit to one of their other victims? Break out the Stella and have a party most probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROON Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 The parents of one victim who was murdered in this way (without provocation) has just been on the North West news after this proposition was put to them and their opinion asked..... The mother's face said it all... It is apparently being tried out in two cities in the North West!!!! No wonder our reputation is as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 The worlds gone mad I mean lets take them all to the mortuary to say sorry ...oh yeah that will work wont it ...whats wrong with this government Its a country of fools run by fools for the benefit of fools . :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 imo anyone caught carrying a knife or any other dangerous weapon should be charged with attempted murder that would make you think twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootbags Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I have seen on three separate occasions now, the same film clips showing on TV of youths brandishing cleavers and stuffing them down the front of their trousers, dancing around for the cameras. Broadcasters have a duty to take the matter of knife crime seriousy and not give air space to these posing yobs! I wonder were they paid to behave that way and do they get royalties every time the clip is shown? The Press generally has a lot to answer for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I seriously doubt if the 'youths' with knives will have needed paying as they were enjoying the 'exposure' too much. I just hope that the one with the cleever whips it out and tries to put it back down his trousers too quick one day, then he might realise what it feels like when he does his own 'Bobbit! At least then he won't be able to procreate! >:-) Kids have always carried knives, the difference is it used to be just small pen-knives and they knew not to stab each other with them, just whittle wood and carve stupid things in trees and the like. The question is though is how do they get hold of these large knives? Surely their parents would realise if someone took them? And I sincerely hope they aren't able to buy them!!!! 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootbags Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Speaking of penknives,, my husband has had one for years, given to him by a company many years ago, something of sentimental value. We were travelling by air and he had forgotten it was in a side pocket of his hand luggage and it was taken off him!!! he is over 80, not exactly a street fighter.!!!!!! A different situation admittedly and very frustrating. On what to do with the youngsters? A form of National Service could be re-introduced, we seem to be short of military personnel and it would turn them into useful well trained citizens - wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syd Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 ROON - 2008-07-14 11:34 AM .. is it just me? I really DO feel physically sick inside when the news comes on. Joy Hi ROON What you have to remember about watching the News on TV is that most of it is sensationalism cos that gets the viewers. The current emphasis on stabbings that we are being served now will soon be replaced with some other equally over hyped topic. Im not trying to belittle the seriousness of these stabbings just to get it into proportion Can you remember a short while back all the stories about dogs killing/maiming kids, well that disapeared from the headlines didnt it. Once it disapeared from the headlines do you for one minute think that dogs then stopped biting kids, well of course not it is just that the press/news found something new to babble about The press/news are expert at upsetting the public for their own commercial ends so dont let them get under your skin, don't worry be happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Laws need to catch the bad guys without causing trouble for the rest of us, and our politicians don't have a very good record of that. Think of the number of times we hear ridiculous stories of people being questioned or arrested under this or that Act, when what they were doing was nothing to do with what the particular law was SUPPOSED to prevent. We all carry incredibly dangerous weapons whenever we go on holiday - look in the kitchen drawer in your motorhome or caravan! If the present lot of incompetents drafted a law to lock up knife criminals, how long before some jobsworth decided we couldn't have kitchen knives in our vans anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 K&D - 2008-07-14 4:58 PM imo anyone caught carrying a knife or any other dangerous weapon should be charged with attempted murder that would make you think twice Then I would be arrested and charged if stopped as I carry two knives most times and I would consider myself as probably more law abiding than average, never had so much as a parking ticket! This is unfortunately how ridiculous laws get made by people that have not thought through the situation and reacted to the wrong thing in the wrong way. There does not need to be any laws banning anything, there does however need to be laws that will take those that choose to do wrong out of society, not sure what to do with them (I could suggest a few things) but blanket law is not the answer laws to cover the problems are. IMO. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J9withdogs Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 As I understand it the definition of an offensive weapon is: "any article made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use by him, or by some other person". Therefore carrying a pen-knife to peel an apple is not against the law. It is the intent to use it to harm another person that is against the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Just two thoughts:First, if you carry an offensive weapon as defined above, you must be presumed to have the intention of using it. Otherwise why carry it? Whether the intention is attack or defence, should make no difference. You have a weapon with intent. For that, if there is currently no penalty, there should be.Second, all I have heard from politicians to date is post hoc. What is required is identification and disarming of the carriers before weapons can be used. I don't think "stop and search" would work, you can't stop and search the entire population of a town centre on a Friday night. However, metal detectors at the entrances to all pubs and clubs might. Penalties for carriers as appropriate. Wouldn't get them all, but would surely reduce the potential. Prison for possession, or after death or injury, identification, and prosecution, is too remote an event to be a deterrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 ---------------------Brian Kirby - 2008-07-15 11:52 AMJust two thoughts:First, if you carry an offensive weapon as defined above, you must be presumed to have the intention of using it. Otherwise why carry it? Whether the intention is attack or defence, should make no difference. You have a weapon with intent. For that, if there is currently no penalty, there should be.Second, all I have heard from politicians to date is post hoc. What is required is identification and disarming of the carriers before weapons can be used. I don't think "stop and search" would work, you can't stop and search the entire population of a town centre on a Friday night. However, metal detectors at the entrances to all pubs and clubs might. Penalties for carriers as appropriate. Wouldn't get them all, but would surely reduce the potential. --------- Prison for possession, or after death or injury, identification, and prosecution, is too remote an event to be a deterrent.------------ Then whats happened to the concept of punishment Brian. Education, help and rehab are all well intended, but the ultimate deterrent will always be the threat of a prison sentence that fits the crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syd Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 One solution that I saw being put forward was National Service being re-introduced. Yes National Service would be an excellent thing for the youth of today but when you think about this there is at least one big flaw. Why should the army, who we are told are seriously overstreached already, be used as a dumping gropund for all of our social misfits. Wouldn't that seriously undermine the respect that we have in our armed forces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 howie - 2008-07-15 12:14 PM ---------------------Brian Kirby - 2008-07-15 11:52 AM ............Prison for possession, or after death or injury, identification, and prosecution, is too remote an event to be a deterrent. Then whats happened to the concept of punishment Brian. Education, help and rehab are all well intended, but the ultimate deterrent will always be the threat of a prison sentence that fits the crime. Hello, Howie.But "education, help and rehab" wasn't what I was on about. I was expressing the view that the possibility of a prison sentence would do little to deter weapon carrying, because the carriers, in my opinion, are unlikely to think so far ahead.First you carry. Then you have to get into the fight, which of course you'll prevent by waving your knife and talking tough. Even if that works it will be unlikely anyone will get hurt. Even if they do it won't be that bad. Even if it is you'll just run and chuck the knife, so won't get caught. Even if you are, they won't be able to prove anything. Even if they can, you'll probably be bound over, or probation. Once in prison, of course, the little grey cells will start working, but that won't prevent the knife being carried in the first case.I'm after prevention, and I just don't think these kids will be put off by notions of prison, because they don't think it will happen to them.I think prison is for retribution, not for prevention. It will deter those who think, but they, on the whole, will already have done the thinking, and won't be carrying weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I beg to differ Brian. The reason people don't think so far ahead in terms of a prison sentence is because in these days its very unlikely to happen. If a prison sentence becomes a automatic punishment for, in this case, carrying a weapon, then i,m sure this would be first and foremost in the minds of those who are tempted to do so. Retribution is not a word I would use, but punishment, and the knowledge that being locked up will be enforced is still the only deterrent to a hard core of those who treat the law with contempt, and those who would copy their actions. Any way of preventing crime is welcome of course, but maintaining law and order is the first priority of any civilised country. Failure to do so will only result in chaos and anarchy, and those who chose to live outside the law must accept that their removal from that society is the only acceptable option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Basil - 2008-07-15 10:03 AM K&D - 2008-07-14 4:58 PM imo anyone caught carrying a knife or any other dangerous weapon should be charged with attempted murder that would make you think twice Then I would be arrested and charged if stopped as I carry two knives most times and I would consider myself as probably more law abiding than average, never had so much as a parking ticket! This is unfortunately how ridiculous laws get made by people that have not thought through the situation and reacted to the wrong thing in the wrong way. There does not need to be any laws banning anything, there does however need to be laws that will take those that choose to do wrong out of society, not sure what to do with them (I could suggest a few things) but blanket law is not the answer laws to cover the problems are. IMO. Bas basil do you go to the pub or the supermarket carrying two knives if so then why.my carpet fitters carry stanley knives around but im not talking about this im talking about people taking knifes to pubs or just hanging around streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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