flyboyprowler Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 On our recent trip south from UK, we nearly ran out of gas in France, due to using the heating, and gas to cook. We were able to borrow a French bottle, but learnt a lesson. We normally carry 2 Spanish bottles, and I have now been offered, free, a pair of Gaslow bottles and pipework and am considering 2 options. 1. Replace both Spanish bottles with the Gaslow ones, 2. Keep one Spanish bottle, and have one refillable one, for emergencies. In either case I would buy a new fitting kit, so questions! Is the Gaslow a good reliable system? Does the Gaslow system hold the same amount of gas as a normal bottle? Is it a "competent" DIY fix, although I would prefer a professional fit, but not sure if there is anyone in our area. We are mostly based in Spain, hence the local bottles, and the availability of gas in Spain could be a problem, although there are quite a few stations listed. Any help gratefully received, and thanks, Ainsley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomongrundy Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I fitted an 11kg Gaslow cylinder to my first MH because of the ease of fitting it and a reasonable price. It took me, a total amateur, less than 2 hours to fit the system - with the filling bracket inside the Gas locker. When it was fitted I then took it to a qualified Motorhome Gas engineer and he checked it over for free. The 11kg bottle holds about 21 kilos of gas and we've never had a problem when filling up despite the filler being in the locker. We cook most nights with gas, have showers each day, the fridge runs on gas when we are on site, have around half a dozen brews each day, wash pots and pans with gas heated hot water and when cold the heater runs on gas. We used a full Gaslow bottle in three weeks in July/August this year, we rarely if ever go on hook up, and for a fill of €16, cheaper now, in France with no electric costs seems a decent bargain to me. If you have two Gaslow bottles you should survive easily where-ever or whatever you do on holiday. I have a 6kg Calor bottle as spare when the Gaslow runs out and use it for a while until we get the Gaslow topped up again. There are other systems on the market but Gaslow works for us with no problems so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Solomongrundy - 2015-02-18 7:42 PM The 11kg bottle holds about 21 LITREs of gas and we've never had a problem when filling up despite the filler being in the locker. Hope you don't mind the correction! I have never used Gaslow but neither do I ever recall seeing any reports of it not working. Are yours 6kg or 11 kg? Both fill to 80% capacity and should shut off at that level for safety the same as any other Calor or whatever make are filled to. One Spanish and one Gaslow seems a good combination to me but maybe using two Gaslow is an option depending on the price and availability of Autogas (and the capacity of the bottles) where you are and how easy it is to move off site and drive to a filling station. Whatever you use I personally would isolate each bottle so only one is in use at any time to avoid running out and you will also need the adaptor to allow filling a UK inlet from a Spanish pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Is the Gaslow a good reliable system? - Yes Does the Gaslow system hold the same amount of gas as a normal bottle? - Yes Is it a "competent" DIY fix? - Yes, but a professional will do it quicker and you should get the installation checked professionally anyway. Significance of being in Spain? - The optimum selection of bottles might change depending on how close you will be to refilling stations and you will know more about their availability in your touring area than I do. If refill stations are close enough to be able to rely on convenient access to one, then fit at least one Gaslow bottle and refill frequently because that will give you the cheapest gas. You could use a Spanish bottle as your second installed bottle and hardly ever use it. If not you presumably will need to have a Spanish bottle as part of your installation, so you can swap that when you cannot refill the Gaslow bottle. The types of connector on the high pressure pipes you will need for your installation will depend on your choice of bottles. Gaslow take Britsh propane connectors and of course Spanish bottle take Spanish connectors. You could carry spare pigtails, to allow you to change to different bottles as the gas supply situation changes -assuming you have the payload to carry spare bottles with you. The type of regulator you have and whether you have a manual or automatic changeover valve on it will matter too. I favour two bottles connected to an automatic valve because I don't like running out of gas when the bottles are close to the change over point. With an automatic system you just need to glance in the gas locker occasionally to find out when you have started on the second bottle, so you know when first one needs filling up. You will know roughly when you are likely to have used your first bottle up. If you fit two Gaslow bottles you will also be able to esimate when you have less than half of one bottle left, so you need to top up both. Consider buying an automatic changeover valve as you do this job if you haven't already got one; I find mine very convenient. Have a look at the gaslow website to see the permutations of installations and th wide range of pigtails and fittings available: http://www.gaslowdirect.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I am shortly fitting a Gaslow system with just one 11kg bottle, and no plans to carry a spare. (Except a Camping Gaz 907 bottle for the Cadac). This is partly to free up half the gas locker for other storage. Previous usage suggests that one full bottle would last us at least 2 weeks, previous travels suggest that we will have moved on several times in 2 weeks, and the LPG map of Europe suggests that we shouldn't have any trouble finding somewhere to top up. Nevertheless, I will admit to some trepidation travelling abroad with just the one bottle, so can someone tell me not to worry, everything will be just fine. Please. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 candapack - 2015-02-18 9:53 PM Nevertheless, I will admit to some trepidation travelling abroad with just the one bottle, so can someone tell me not to worry, everything will be just fine. Please. :-D Everything will be just fine Chris so do not worry! You will of course need the filling adapters for the countries you visit but GPL is widely available in France but not so easy to find in Spain. Can't speak for other countries! A book of outlets or an app on your phone or laptop, or pois for your sat nav might help if they are available? We use the Vicarious books of Aires for Spain but there are probably less expensive solutions if you do not use Aires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Thanks Rich. Phew! There are Apps available, there is a fairly recent thread somewhere on here recommending one if I can find it. We go off season and use a mix of Aires and ACSI sites, the sites particularly if we think we might be staying for 2/3 nights or more, and OH wants an EHU. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 candapack - 2015-02-18 9:53 PM ...Nevertheless, I will admit to some trepidation travelling abroad with just the one bottle, so can someone tell me not to worry, everything will be just fine. Please. :-D A gas system based on a single gas-bottle is fairly common nowadays on motorhomes that have diesel-fuelled heating, and an LPG tank is essentially equivalent to a refillable single gas-bottle arrangement. Everything SHOULD be fine, but the implications of such a system should be plain - if a problem develops with your single Gaslow bottle (eg. it starts to leak or won’t refill) what will you do? It would be sensible to have an exit strategy and, as you’ve carried Spanish gas-bottles in the past and have successfully used a French gas-bottle, it’s quite likely that you already have the gas hoses and/or adapters that would allow you to temporarily replace the Gaslow cylinder with a Spanish/French bottle should the need ever arise. Carrying a second bottle would definitely eat into valuable storage space, but carrying a ‘back up’ gas-hose/adapter would take up very little room. To quote Distraeli - "I am prepared for the worst, but hope for the best.” There is a number of apps available (GOOGLE on “lpg app”), but the data on this website http://www.mylpg.eu/ may well be the most comprehensive and up-to-date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Sorry, but I would strongly urge caution of only having one bottle. The Mylpg app still shows outlets that do not have an LPG pump any longer, it also shows outlets that are not open weekends unlike the average conventional fuel station, also on one trip down the Dordogne last year due to a combination of incorrect data with the Mylpg app, and one LPG outlet that did still have a pump but was out of order we were unable to find a fill station for around 100 miles, with a reserve calor bottle it didn't turn into a crisis and were able to continue to enjoy where we were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 You certainly encounter LPG pumps in France that are inaccessible to motorhomes and their installed refillable gas systems, for example because they are located under a low canopy or in a very narrow refueling lane, so you do have to be repered to be disappointed and move on to find gas elsewhere. But I suppose the same applies to hunting for an LPG depoit selling pre-filled bottles; they might not have the right type or size, or of course be closed for lunch or a saint's day. It will presumably be the same but worse in Spain. But unless you are foolish enough to allow your stock of gas to run out completely before you refill, refillable bottles, even one fitted 11 kg bottle with some sort of back up gas supply, however small, should be viable, even in Spain. The gift of a couple of Gaslow bottles is too good to ignore! I installed two 11kg refillable bottles because it seemed at the time to be the way to go but if I was starting again I would go for one 11 kg with a smaller 6 kg bottle as the secondary, to save weight - and a bit of cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 candapack - 2015-02-18 10:36 PM Thanks Rich. Phew! There are Apps available, there is a fairly recent thread somewhere on here recommending one if I can find it. We go off season and use a mix of Aires and ACSI sites, the sites particularly if we think we might be staying for 2/3 nights or more, and OH wants an EHU. Cheers, If you are using sites with ehu especially for heating and hot water which are the big users of gas one bottle should be OK but I would be inclined to top it up frequently, maybe when driving between sites, however it does seem that not all apps are reliable and not all gas points are accessible, although it should still be possible to remove the bottle and carry it to the pump if needs be? We have only ever used gas pumps on trunk road service stations and have never had an access problem so maybe one way to avoid difficulties might be to avoid the smaller local service stations? Personally I would not travel without a viable back up gas bottle but we do not use sites so our use is very different to yours and it could be said that the site ehu is your back up - as long as you have a low wattage electric kettle and the site mains is up to the task of feeding all those power hungry vans without trip outs at the most inconvenient times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Tracker - 2015-02-19 12:24 PM If you are using sites with ehu especially for heating and hot water which are the big users of gas one bottle should be OK but I would be inclined to top it up frequently, maybe when driving between sites, however it does seem that not all apps are reliable and not all gas points are accessible, although it should still be possible to remove the bottle and carry it to the pump if needs be? ... It’s to be anticipated that a Gaslow refillable bottle will be ‘plumbed in’ on a semi-permanent basis, and that the LPG filling-point will either be integrated into the motorhome’s body-side, be securely attached to a bracket within the vehicle’s gas-locker, or be fixed to a bracket beneath the vehicle’s side or rear bodywork. Removing a Gaslow bottle from the gas-locker would involve disconnecting the bottle from the gas-hoses that attach it to the regulator and to the filling-point. Even if that proved straightforward and the bottle could be carried to the LPG pump, as the filling-point that accepts the LPG pump’s delivery gun would still be fixed to the motorhome, how would the bottle then be refilled? Gaslow markets a “Direct Fill Adapter” http://www.gaslowdirect.com/Gaslow-Direct-Fill-Adapter that screws on to a Gaslow bottle’s 3/4” UNF threaded inlet and has a UK-standard bayonet-type fitting that can be removed and be replaced by the appropriate ‘foreign’ LPG filling adapter. But if you haven’t got a suitable adapter to screw on to the Gaslow bottle’s inlet, you won’t be able to refill the bottle directly. (Anyone contemplating purchasing a Gaslow R67 bottle may wish to consider opting for the Direct Fill version as this includes the Direct Fill Adapter and is priced at under a fiver more than the basic bottle.) Candapack plans to travel abroad carrying a single 21-litre capacity (at 80% full) Gaslow bottle in order to free up space in the gas-locker. The risk is small (though nevertheless there) that the bottle could develop a fault, but he also has a Campingaz bottle that might be substituted in an emergency until a larger foreign bottle could be obtained. Choosing to carry another bottle as a back-up will conflict with his basic objective - gaining storage space - and, with 21 litres of gas in the equation, frequent refilling should be unnecessary. For folk who are psychologically incapable of filling up their vehicle’s fuel-tank until the motor is running on fumes, and consequently carry an extra can of fuel just in case they run out, a two-bottle system should be chosen. Otherwise a one-bottle system should be OK (though it would be wise to distrust the accuracy of Gaslow’s original magnetically-operated level gauge!!!) Having inspected a Gaslow R67 bottle at the NEC Show and seen what’s inside I plan to fit an 11kg Gaslow R67 bottle to my forthcoming Rapido. I’m not sure what I’ll do regarding the filling-point and, as I don’t envisage needing the gas-locker for extra storage, I’ll probably carry my elderly refillable MTH 10-litre composite bottle as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Thanks Derek and I stand corrected as never having used a Gaslow bottle I was unaware that they needed to be 'plumbed in'. I always thought that you had the option to simply dis-connect the filler hose, lift the bottle out, take it to the pump, fill it - with or without an adapter - and put it back in, with the whole process being no more complex than changing a Calor bottle thus giving you the option to either refill the bottle without leaving your pitch or fill it en route? If that is not the case it makes it a bit of an issue for long term on siters, especially tuggers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Where the UK is concerned a refillable gas-bottle could be fitted in a motorhome in the same manner as a exchange-only ‘Calor’ bottle, but it’s more usual for Gaslow bottles to be installed as I described. There’s no TECHNICAL difficulty directly refilling a Calor propane bottle via an LPG pump (in the UK or abroad) if one has the necessary adapters. Similarly, there’s no more TECHNICAL difficulty directly refilling a Gasflow bottle via an LPG pump than refilling a Calor propane bottle (in fact, it’s a helluva lot safer) but the adapter (occasionally advertised on ebay) that allows a Calor propane bottle to be refilled won’t fit on to the 3/4” UNF threaded inlet of a Gaslow bottle. The rationale behind refillable gas-bottles for leisure vehicles is that the bottles be treated and used as if they were permanently-fixed gas tanks. A motorhome with a gas tank must be driven to the LPG pump for the tank to be refilled. A motorhome with Gaslow bottles is, in principle, more versatile as it should be relatively straightforward to remove the bottles from the vehicle and take them to the LPG pump for refilling. In practice most motorcaravanners probably won’t (though, in my case, I very likely shall!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Derek you are correct, as always, except that Gaslow now supply a direct fill bottle and will also supply a connector so that any Gaslow bottle can be used without an installed filling system. All Gaslow bottles have an internal device to prevent over filling, so this is safe. That doesn't mean you can take a refillable bottle to just any LPG pump because petrol stations will generally not allow stand-alone refillabe bottles to be refilled at their LPG pumps - because their staff are not trained to distinguish between safe (eg Gaslow) bottles and unsafe ones. such as when someone is trying to fill a Calor bottle using the connector you can buy off EBay. Calor bottles do not have a limiter to prevent over-filling. To refill a Gaslow bottle directly you will probaby have to take it to an LPG depot where there is an autogas pump, where the staff would know enough to spot that you had the proper sort of refillable bottle and pump connector. A Safefill bottle is also refillable this way yet would also probably be refused at an ordinary petrol station. I have no idea whether you would be allowed to refill a stand-alone bottle abroad and I imagine it might vary from place to place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Worth noting that if you only have one refillable, and not withstanding that the very latest bottles ( R67) have a different gauge and may be more accurate, the earlier non gauge types, and the largely useless clip on valve running out of gas just as with any other bottle is a distinct possibility, mind you I think I've said that unless of course you subscribe to the view that anyone that ever found themselves needing to swap over a Calor bottle because one was empty are idiots. Probably the same idiots advocating and saying it's reasonably easy to remove Gaslow bottles for filling as does the resident expert, Derek Uzzell , as for attempting to refill a Calor bottle in the same post, well the mind boggles, no wonder some outlets give some of us who fully comply with regulations a load of grief, or even refuse us a fill when we pull up. I'd strongly suggest he and others read this, before blowing themselves and possibly others up. http://www.hse.gov.uk/lau/lacs/52-20.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Joe90 - 2015-02-19 5:28 PM unless of course you subscribe to the view that anyone that ever found themselves needing to swap over a Calor bottle because one was empty are idiots. If you really want to feel like an idiot just let both gas bottles run out when it's cold dark and wet - I only ever did it once! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 If you really want to feel like an idiot just let both gas bottles run out when it's cold dark and wet - I only ever did it once! Which brings us back full circle to my original question, and I think, I will go down the route of keeping one full Spanish bottle, and one refillable Gaslow bottle. Thank you all so much for your thoughts and advice. I know these bottles will be quite old, so I hope that they can be upgraded to give a reliable capacity. At present I have a manual switch over, but would like to go auto. So next stop will be to Gaslow, who can ID the bottles I have, and then go from there. Thanks to all, Ainsley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 StuartO - 2015-02-19 4:22 PM Derek you are correct, as always, except that Gaslow now supply a direct fill bottle and will also supply a connector so that any Gaslow bottle can be used without an installed filling system. All Gaslow bottles have an internal device to prevent over filling, so this is safe. That doesn't mean you can take a refillable bottle to just any LPG pump because petrol stations will generally not allow stand-alone refillabe bottles to be refilled at their LPG pumps - because their staff are not trained to distinguish between safe (eg Gaslow) bottles and unsafe ones. such as when someone is trying to fill a Calor bottle using the connector you can buy off EBay. Calor bottles do not have a limiter to prevent over-filling. To refill a Gaslow bottle directly you will probaby have to take it to an LPG depot where there is an autogas pump, where the staff would know enough to spot that you had the proper sort of refillable bottle and pump connector. A Safefill bottle is also refillable this way yet would also probably be refused at an ordinary petrol station. I have no idea whether you would be allowed to refill a stand-alone bottle abroad and I imagine it might vary from place to place. The Gaslow “direct fill bottle” you refer to is not a container specifically designed for direct filling. It’s exactly the same R67-standard 2.7kg, 6.0kg or 11.0kg Gaslow cylinder that’s marketed to be installed in leisure vehicles, except a Direct Fill Adapter is chucked in at a bargain price. I have a copy of Gaslow’s January 2015 price-list and the RRP (VAT inc) prices of the refillable cylinders quoted there are as follows: 2.7kg - £130.00 6.0kg - £145.00 11.0kg - £165.00 The RRP (VAT inc) of the Direct Fill cylinders are: 2.7kg - £134.99 6.0kg - £149.99 11.0kg - £169.00 So (as I said in my posting of 19 February 2015 2:26 PM) opting for a Direct Fill cylinder gets you a Direct Fill Adapter (list RRP £17.87) for £4.99 or £5.00. All Gaslow refillable cylinders have an 80% cut-off valve and a non-return valve on their inlet side, and R67 containers have an excess-flow valve on their outlet side. The R67 cylinder also has a mechanical level-gauge that should be accurate (and reliable) across the full contents range. As you rightly say, directly filling a gas bottle (whether or not it’s designed to be user-refilled and however clever its technology) may well be frowned on at an LPG-supplying outlet. This potential snag is mentioned on the Gaslow Direct Fill Adapter webpage I provided a link to “Note that when filling your cylinder using the Direct Fill Adapter we can only guarantee you will be allowed to fill at the stations listed on the Where To Fill page.” http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Categories/Cylinders/Where_to_Fill Can one refill a stand-alone bottle abroad? I’ve been doing this for 14 years. How do I do it? Carefully and circumspectly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 You missed a crucial word.............stupidly. ;-) Especially with a 14 year old "elderly" bottle, are you so strapped you cannot afford a fully compliant industry standard one with built in safety features............blowing yourself up is one thing, and fine by me, although some may miss all the cutting and pasting you do, but taking everyone with you is quite another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 flyboyprowler - 2015-02-19 6:47 PM At present I have a manual switch over, but would like to go auto. So next stop will be to Gaslow, who can ID the bottles I have, and then go from there. Thanks to all, Ainsley And therein lies the issue that I had - the auto switch over that I had gave me no warning that it had switched over bottles and I forgot to check. All future set ups were manual changeover so I remained in full control even if it did mean getting out in me PJs early in the morning to change over bottles from the one that had expired in the night - but at least the blinking clicking fridge told me that I was out of gas on one bottle! Use auto changeover at your peril - unless it has become fool proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Thanks all - useful info, as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Thanks all - useful info, as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Joe90 - 2015-02-19 7:19 PM You missed a crucial word.............stupidly. ;-) Especially with a 14 year old "elderly" bottle, are you so strapped you cannot afford a fully compliant industry standard one with built in safety features............blowing yourself up is one thing, and fine by me, although some may miss all the cutting and pasting you do, but taking everyone with you is quite another. What makes you think I’m refilling a 14 year-old gas-bottle abroad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 A misinterpretation of your last comment... Derek Uzzell - 2015-02-19 6:56 PM Can one refill a stand-alone bottle abroad? I've been doing this for 14 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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