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Rear Steadies
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userThurlestone
Posted: 9 November 2015 9:12 AM
Subject: Rear Steadies
 
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I have a 2013 Knaus Sunti 650MF on a fiat chassis and when pitched we feel that we need some stabilisation at the rear. I enquired about fitting wind down steadies but Alko can't suggest anything as it is not their chassis, Lowdhams have quoted a Knaus accessory costing £700 fitted and when at the NEC show, the only suggestions were to hydraulic levers at approximately £4000 to £5000, which are great but too expensive for us. Has anyone retro fitted steadies to this type of chassis and does that resolve this problem? I have looked at axle stands but this requires getting under the van which is not really acceptable on wet ground etc. Can anyone give some advice in trying to resolve this situation.
userlennyhb
Posted: 9 November 2015 9:35 AM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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I assume your van is only 6.5m, you shouldn't really have a problem maybe just a bit sensitive to movement, give it a while & you will get used to it. Our van is 7.2m with a large overhang, moves about quite a bit, rather put up with it than put steadies up and down every day.
userBrock
Posted: 9 November 2015 10:07 AM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 
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Location: Wirral - 2013 Hymer BClass 504 130bhp


The current Knaus model is 7m long with a french bed and bathroom at the rear. That's a lot of weight at the rear, especially if people are moving about, so it's no surprise it feels a little strange when on site if your model is the same. The wheelbase length is quoted at 3.8m, short but not out of line with similar models.

You can buy corner steadies for less than £100 although I don't know how good they are. Have a look at O'Learys but whatever you buy, make sure they can cope with your weight and are not just for caravans. Marcle Leisure does a set which it says are solely designed to steady the vehicle (to avoid rocking when people are moving around in the vehicle). Both are respectable firms.

A search engine will bring up several past, and possibly out of date, MM threads on corner steadies. There is also a 2014 Motorhome Fun thread which seems quite positive.

If your van's road manners are poor, you might want to see about beefing up the rear suspension.

A plastic tarpaulin sheet is useful for crawling on the floor or even thick black bin bags. Or knee pads and stick to hard standing. At least you won't get back ache winding down corner steadies if you use axle stands!

Might be worth tripping down to the weighbridge to make sure you are not overloading the rear axle.

You'll probably get used to the movement in time as lennie says.
userBillggski
Posted: 9 November 2015 1:40 PM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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I have rear wind down corner steadies on my Dethleffs, but never use them. One was damaged, presumably by a previous owner driving off with it down. So I bought another on eBay. This is a Hymer one and much bigger and heavier than mine. So I still have it if you are interested.
I paid £20 but it would cost that much to post, I'm near J15 of the M6 if you fancy a cheap solution, it has four bolt holes that line up with similar ones on my Fiat chassis. It winds down and extends with a jacking handle.

Edited by Billggski 2015-11-09 1:40 PM
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 10 November 2015 8:23 AM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Thurlestone

This is likely to be the MHFun discussion Brock mentions above (and that includes links to O’Leary and Marcle Leisure adverts)

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/rear-corner-steadies.92033/

The steadies advertised are ‘drop-down’ type, which - if installed in an accessible position on the vehicle - should be quicker to deploy than wind-down steadies and will probably be cheaper.

Although Al-Ko markets “Click-Fix” wind-down steadies designed to attach easily to pre-drilled holes on Al-Ko chassis, the company also offers the “Vero-Light” and “Moca” products. I think Vero-Light steadies are also intended for Al-Ko chassis, but Moca wind-down steadies are advertised as being suitable for all types of chassis and come with a ‘universal’ fixing kit.

http://www.al-ko.com/shop/uk_vt/moca-a.html

If Knaus offered rear corner steadies as a factory option for a 2013 Sun Ti 650MF, suitable chassis mounting-points for steadies may have been provided as standard. If steadies were not a factory option, it’s likely that some work will be required to retrofit (eg. drilling the chassis to accept attachment brackets).

There’s no doubt that rear corner steadies will stabilise a motorhome when it’s parked, but they can be a nuisance if the vehicle is regularly moved. My Hobby motorhome came with rear steadies as standard but I never used them (and never felt a need to use them) during my 9 years of ownership. Rear steadies were a £100 factory option for my current Rapido but I did not specify them.

It ought to be practicable to add rear steadies to your Knaus, but you should anticipate paying a few hundred pounds to do this unless retrofitting involves a DIY job using secondhand parts. As you’ve now owned your Sun Ti for a year I'm doubtful that you’ll get used to its on-site movement in the future, so it’s really a question of deciding whether the cost of retrofitting outweighs the irritation caused by the motothome bouncing about.
userTracker
Posted: 10 November 2015 9:30 AM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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Location: Vanless in Evesham.


When we had an Autotrail Cheyenne with very little payload I removed the two rear corner steadies to help with the borderline payload. I can't recall the actual weight of the two but I do recall being surprised at just how heavy they were.

userKeithl
Posted: 10 November 2015 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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Tracker - 2015-11-10 9:30 AM

When we had an Autotrail Cheyenne with very little payload I removed the two rear corner steadies to help with the borderline payload. I can't recall the actual weight of the two but I do recall being surprised at just how heavy they were.



According to the 2004 AT brochure a pair of rear steadies weighed 10 kg!

We have them fitted to our AT but haven't used them for many years, I have only left them on as they are the first thing to ground at the rear and could save expensive damage otherwise.

PS We do have Aux Air Suspension on the rear which has firmed up the soft MB suspension very nicely so this does help when moving about inside.

Keith.
userThurlestone
Posted: 10 November 2015 1:51 PM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 
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Thanks everyone, we owned a similar model prior to this and no we won't get used to the movement. It is the 7m long van and yes it does have a lot of weight at the rear therefore the reason for asking for assistance with a resolution. I will now follow up on the sensible suggestions and let you know how we go. I did look at the air suspension when at the NEC but not sure how it would help and would appreciate any further thoughts on that front.

David
userKeithl
Posted: 10 November 2015 4:36 PM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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David,

If you want to try a quick and relatively cheap option then get a pair of Fiamma steadies and place under your chassis at the rear... http://www.fiammastore.com/Fiamma-Jacks-and-Steadies-for-caravans-and-motorhomes/Fiamma-Aluminium-Stabilising-Jacks

As for Aux Air Suspension, we have a Dunlop system from Marcle Leisure fitted to our Merc. They do similar systems for Fiats. http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/index.php

I fitted ours to firm up the ride and reduce swaying as the Merc's are notorious for soft suspension but the added bonus was reduced movement when pitched. You are looking at around £400 for the basic kit plus fitting if you can't DIY.

Keith.

Edited by Keithl 2015-11-10 4:36 PM
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 11 November 2015 7:33 AM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Thurlestone

Fitting ‘air-bellows’ to your motorhome’s rear suspension will increase the firmness of its springing. This may be a good thing if (as in Keith’s case) the rear springing is noticeably soft when the vehicle is being driven, or there is evidence that the springs are becoming tired (eg. the motorhome’s rear end is starting to sag), or there is a wish to increase rear ground clearance, say, when going on board a ferry. However, although increasing rear-spring firmness in this way should be expected to reduce ‘bounciness’ when parked, it won’t prevent it in the way that rear corner steadies will. It’s likely, too, that to obtain a really noticeable reduction in bounciness the air-bellows would need to be inflated to a pressure where the motorhome’s rear end would be raised significantly, giving the vehicle a nose-down stance.

I suggest you treat the two things separately – if you think air-bellows would be worth having to improve the motorhome’s driving behaviour (or there’s an obvious need for stronger rear springing) then fit bellows, but if you want to be sure of stopping parked-up bounciness fit rear steadies.
usergocro
Posted: 11 November 2015 10:58 AM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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CAK Tanks have two sizes of motorhome steady, one of which should fit.
userstarvin marvin
Posted: 11 November 2015 10:58 AM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 
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Keithl - 2015-11-10 4:36 PM

David,

If you want to try a quick and relatively cheap option then get a pair of Fiamma steadies and place under your chassis at the rear... http://www.fiammastore.com/Fiamma-Jacks-and-Steadies-for-caravans-and-motorhomes/Fiamma-Aluminium-Stabilising-Jacks

As for Aux Air Suspension, we have a Dunlop system from Marcle Leisure fitted to our Merc. They do similar systems for Fiats. http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/index.php

I fitted ours to firm up the ride and reduce swaying as the Merc's are notorious for soft suspension but the added bonus was reduced movement when pitched. You are looking at around £400 for the basic kit plus fitting if you can't DIY.

Keith.


Many thanks, I've been looking for these on and off for ages, seen loads of Krauts using them. They've gone onto my shopping list. Brilliant.
userThurlestone
Posted: 12 November 2015 4:40 PM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 
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Thanks for the offer but I need two and have decided to buy the Alko Vero Light as they are recommended by Alko for my chassis.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 12 November 2015 6:36 PM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


I’m not challenging your decision to go for the Al-Ko “Vero-Light” steadies - they are a good deal lighter than the steel “Moca” steadies and a photo in one of the Al-Ko catalogues implies that they can be fitted to a non-Al-Ko chassis.

Vero-Light steadies seem to have to be bolted directly to a chassis side, whereas the Moca steadies attach to a bracket that is bolted to the chassis. Consequently it may be simpler to fit the Moca steadies than the Vero-Light ones, though this may be academic if you are getting someone to fit steadies for you.

It will be important that the correct steady-length be chosen.
userRobinhood
Posted: 12 November 2015 8:04 PM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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Location: Sherwood Forest


The "Vero Lights" are actually of Sawiko design and manufacture, dating back to before their take-over by Al-Ko. At one point, they stopped manufacturing them, but have obviously now started again.

I had a pair fitted on my last 'van, and they are certainly lighter than most all-metal units, and aesthetically quite pleasing.

Some things to be aware of, however. The deploying mechanism has a good amount of plastic in it. If any significant amount of torque is applied when the units have hit an obstruction (such as the ground) before the leg is vertical (you normally continue winding at this point to deploy the telescoping section) then it is easy to cause damage (I had replacement plastic "quadrants" shipped to me by Sawiko following just such an occurrence).

In addition, the "steady" action relies on the legs being fully deployed to vertical, (there is no steadying effect with them deployed at an angle, and risk of damage as above) and then at least a small amount of telescoping. This is absolutely not possible if the leg is too long, as it will not go vertical (and remember, a measurement taken on the drive may well be less in real life on a softish pitch). You definitely don't want legs that are too long, and if there is any doubt in the margin, the shorter ones would be better as you can carry small wooden blocks to make up the difference.

Mine were fine on a solid, flat surface, but often unusable on softer pitches where the 'van sank in somewhat (unless I dug a hole to allow them to drop to the vertical ).

I destroyed mine on a site at Münster (don't ask ), and it was when I enquired about replacements from Sawiko they told me they had stopped making them. I bought a pair of (shorter) all-aluminium ones from Germany that fitted the same holes. Though they were less aesthetically pleasing, being shorter they were much better in function.

One final word - Al-Ko UK appear to apply a large mark-up to all things Sawiko. They are likely to be considerably cheaper bought from Germany if you can get someone to ship. (there are some on Ebay.de, and I'm not sure that the "ships only to Germany" is correct.

Good luck.

userBillggski
Posted: 12 November 2015 10:04 PM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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I've just looked at the image of them and they are the same as the Hymer one I have offered.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 13 November 2015 8:24 AM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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Are you sure, as you described your ex-Hymer steady as “...much bigger and heavier...” than the ones fitted to your Dethleffs motorhome?

I believe the steadies used on recent Hymer Al-Ko chassis models are the Click-Fix all-metal ones that are indeed pretty heavy (7.2kg - 8.9kg per pair depending on the length), whereas the Sawiko Vero-Light steadies are made primarily of aluminium and plastic and, consequently, weigh under 4.0kg a pair. The Sawiko Moca steadies are also all-metal and likely to weigh much the same as the Click-Fix ones.

The full range of steadies UK-marketed by Al-Ko is shown here

http://www.al-ko.com/shop/uk_vt/products/motorhome-accessories/steady-legs.html

As Robinhood says, the asking-prices in Germany can be significantly less.

http://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/Liste/109189811/sawiko-stuetzen.html
userRobinhood
Posted: 13 November 2015 9:06 AM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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Location: Sherwood Forest


Derek Uzzell - 2015-11-13 8:24 AM

The full range of steadies UK-marketed by Al-Ko is shown here

http://www.al-ko.com/shop/uk_vt/products/motorhome-accessories/steady-legs.html

As Robinhood says, the asking-prices in Germany can be significantly less.

http://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/Liste/109189811/sawiko-stuetzen.html


....yes, a rather astounding price difference.

I hadn't looked at the UK prices, but it is about what I suspected. When I was looking at the possibility of fitting a Sawiko bike rack to the current 'van, the difference between the fitted price quoted by Alko (at Warwick) and the Sawiko factory (fit at their premises) would have paid for the journey (including ferry) and a good two weeks worth of camp-sites in Germany!!

I'm not fond of the term "rip-off Britain", but in this case.......

userlaimeduck
Posted: 13 November 2015 12:12 PM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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I have only just looked at this thread. I took my rear steadies off as part of a weight reduction plan. We never used them. They are Alko and simply bolt onto the rear frame. They are sitting in my garage as I type. 

For a modest fee you can have them if they will fit your van
PM me if interested.
Jeremy

userBillggski
Posted: 13 November 2015 4:58 PM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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I just said they look the same, but clearly much heavier as they are all steel.
Is the weight saving that critical?
userThurlestone
Posted: 14 November 2015 6:58 PM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 
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Hi Everyone

Thanks for all the good advice and it certainly made me think but I am a little unsure now which way to jump. Alko uk recommended the varo light medium length as my van sits 40cm from top of chassis to ground. I am wondering if the shorter length would be better and use some blocks that I always carry anyway. I also appreciate that a number of members have found they don't use steadies already fitted but as our layout is with a French bed and toilet at the rear + large garage, that adds to the weight at the rear so we would find them useful when on site. I think we might consider the Moca to avoid the problems of the plastic. I have friends in both France and Spain but can't find any cheap supplies there and can't find anything in Germany with delivery to UK so may need to go for the British alternative although it goes my Scottish background.

Thanks again for all the help and advice.

David
userRobinhood
Posted: 14 November 2015 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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Location: Sherwood Forest


David,

I can't really advise on which length to get, as I can't measure the height at which mine were mounted on my now departed 'van.

I assume you have the figures in front of you for the lengths (310mm to 430mm and 330mm to 510mm respectively). I must admit, if there is any doubt, I would go for the shorter and use blocks where necessary - even the 20mm can make a difference in being able to deploy, especially if the rear is on an upwards slope.

For any similar type of folding steady, the issue is the same, to work, they must be vertical, so length is important whichever version you look at.

The plastic isn't really an issue, as long as you understand that you shouldn't keep winding if the steadies will not go vertical (I discovered the hard way). It is the plastic quadrants that enable the swinging that take the strain if you do - the legs themselves are pretty robust (and Sawiko did mail me replacement parts for the one I bent)

I can see the wording on this entry on ebay.de says delivery only to Germany, but I'm pretty sure this simply applies to the free delivery (for orders over €100) since it will quote for delivery to UK (and the same company is advertising the same item on ebay.fr with €10 delivery charge - presumably to France).

http://www.ebay.de/itm/SAWIKO-Vero-Light-Stutzen-fur-die-Hinterachse-einfach-teleskopierbar-nur-1-9kg-/111207839855?hash=item19e480f86f:g:-AUAAOxyTjNSeLp7

(the longer version are in another entry on ebay.de)

Given the exhorbitant price difference, I'd certainly enquire via Ebay about delivery - most Germans are good at English, and are prompt in replying. (and I'm 95% sure they will ship)

userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 15 November 2015 8:38 AM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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The “Moca” steadies are offered here, with the asking-prices apparently inclusive of delivery within the EU.

http://ft24shop.com/MoCa-Hubmatic

They are also advertised on French websites. Examples here:

http://www.destinea-accessoires.com/stabilisation/kit-verins-manuels-cc-290mm-6673

http://www.pagiloisir.com/verins-de-stabilisation/
userThurlestone
Posted: 17 November 2015 8:37 AM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 
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Thanks for all your help Derek and Sherwood, I decided to use your knowledge and have ordered some Moca steadies from Derek’s suggestion, could pay with PayPal and have be notified they have been dispatched and tracked with date for delivery. Will update on progress when appropriate.

Thanks

David
userThurlestone
Posted: 17 November 2015 8:37 AM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 
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Thanks for all your help Derek and Sherwood, I decided to use your knowledge and have ordered some Moca steadies from Derek’s suggestion, could pay with PayPal and have be notified they have been dispatched and tracked with date for delivery. Will update on progress when appropriate.

Thanks

David
userstarvin marvin
Posted: 1 January 2016 9:41 PM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 
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starvin marvin - 2015-11-11 10:58 AM

Keithl - 2015-11-10 4:36 PM

David,

If you want to try a quick and relatively cheap option then get a pair of Fiamma steadies and place under your chassis at the rear... http://www.fiammastore.com/Fiamma-Jacks-and-Steadies-for-caravans-and-motorhomes/Fiamma-Aluminium-Stabilising-Jacks

As for Aux Air Suspension, we have a Dunlop system from Marcle Leisure fitted to our Merc. They do similar systems for Fiats. http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/index.php

I fitted ours to firm up the ride and reduce swaying as the Merc's are notorious for soft suspension but the added bonus was reduced movement when pitched. You are looking at around £400 for the basic kit plus fitting if you can't DIY.

Keith.


Many thanks, I've been looking for these on and off for ages, seen loads of Krauts using them. They've gone onto my shopping list. Brilliant.


Bought a pack of 4 (only needed 2!) in plastic and used them over Christmas on a trip away for a few days. Excellent, stopped the van moving in the wind.
userThurlestone
Posted: 15 February 2016 10:01 PM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 
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Hi

The Moca steadies arrived in double quick time and I got them fitted, which was an easy process. I have not replied until now as we couldn't use the van during December after fitting them. We are now in southern Spain and experienced very high winds whilst on site. The legs have done a wonderful job and we are really pleased with the result. Thanks again Robinhood and Derek as your advise was great and have helped us to appreciate and enjoy our van whilst on a long winter get away.

David
userRobinhood
Posted: 17 February 2016 7:44 AM
Subject: RE: Rear Steadies
 


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Location: Sherwood Forest


...glad they worked out for you.

It isn't always the case, but if you're happy to buy from Germany and chase the delivery options, there are often quite substantial savings to be made on motorhome parts and accessories.

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