K9GYN Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Hi all I've got a Hobby T500 on a Ford Transit chassis due for 1st service is it worth using Ford Main dealer for this or is it not worth the the effort - in respect of the warranty - I would like to think that any problems would have shown up by now I'm not sure of the bodywork warranty having read somewhere that you pay extra for this inspection I'm asking because experience of other manufactures leads me to think that they will always find a get out for any potential claim Many thanks in advance Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel wood Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Of course, it is up to you. I understand that the manufacturer's warranty will apply if you have a vehicle serviced at any garage providing they use the manufacturer's parts and recommended oils and service it in accordance with the manufacturer's schedules. However, I have no experience of that. We found that our local Ford dealer was good (when we had a Mondeo car). We used it not only during the warranty period but for all but one service in the 8 years or so we owned the car. It may have been co-incidence but in over 30 years of car ownership that car was the most reliable and the one we kept longest. An advantage of using a main dealer is that if there are any issues during the warranty period or soon afterwards then Ford should be sympathetic - certainly Ford could not say that it hadn't been serviced in accordance with their requirements. Problems don't necessarily only occur in the first year. Of course you may find a reliable garage which can service the van cheaper. In this case, the choice really is yours. All the best with your van. (As regards other manufacturers, I can speak of experience with VW and Peugeot for camper vans and both of their Customer Service Departments dealt with issues regarding warranty claims fairly. They certainly did not try to find a "get out".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Remember too that with the quantity of electronics on todays vehicles it is not uncommon for updates etc to be issued by manufacturers. If not safety critical, there will be no recall for these, but they will usually be applied at the next service. Independents are unlikely to have access to these. I would add that it may pay you to look at the exact specification for oils etc to be used when servicing, and the stricture from Ford about using them. Your independent should give a guarantee that whatever they use will meet those requirements as, if a major mechanical problem were to arise and it was possible oil grade could have been the problem, the oil would be likely to be checked. My final observation is to seek a Ford "backbone" dealer who is a Transit Specialist. They will be more likely to have all the necessary upgrades, and the gear with which to install them. You will have only 2 years warranty, so how much might you save by getting the service carried out elsewhere? It is surely worth the extra to know you have a cast-iron comeback on Ford, should something strange subsequently arise. Large dealers have a warranty manager who can authorise many warranty repairs directly. I have found the one we use to be generally fair and reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Have to agree while it is under warranty it is worth paying the extra just to protect yourself in the event of a warranty claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9GYN Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 Many thanks Folks I will arrange for Ford to undertake service Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Last year when I was arranging for the 2nd year service for our Ford based Chausson (we've changed it now) I rang a few garages and got total prices and what it covered, I then rang the Ford dealer and they price matched and also threw in a free paint warranty check (only Ford main dealers can do this). This is what I said then: Just as a 'price' comparison, we're having the 2nd year base vehicle service shortly at a main Ford agent, they were going to charge a fair bit more than an independent garage, but have agreed to just undercut it (£215 inc VAT if I recall correctly), which also includes the replacement of the brake fluid (mandatory) and the paint warranty check FOC (which HAS to be done by a Ford dealer). Not a bad price for a main dealer - but obviously I wouldn't have got this price if I hadn't rung them back to cancel the provisional booking I'd made and asked the 'price match' question - so its worth asking sometimes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Phil If your Hobby was initially retailed in the UK, its Ford Transit base-vehicle warranty is likely to have a duration of 3 years/100,000 miles. Details of the Ford base-vehicle/paint/perforation warranty durations, and their terms and conditions are normally in the Ford Service Portfolio booklet that I would expect you to have received when you took delivery of your motorhome. There have been instances where the Ford warranty of Transit-based motorhomes (particularly those built outside the UK) has not been correctly recorded on Ford’s database. Sometimes the base-vehicle warranty has been recorded as having a 2-year duration (the Continental European norm for a Transit): occasionally the warranty has not been recorded at all. Using your Transit’s VIN-number, a Ford dealer will be able to tell you what warranty details are recorded on Ford’s database. To avoid potential problems in the future, when you take your motorhome in for service you should ask your Ford dealer to carry out a warranty-details check to confirm that it’s 3-years duration. If things haven't changed since I bought my own Hobby in 2005, your Van T-500 will have a Hobby 2-year 'conversion' warranty and a Hobby 5-year ‘watertightness’ warranty. Maintaining the watertightness warranty will require an annual inspection by a Hobby dealership (for which there will be a charge). Failing to have an inspection carried out at the specified time will invalidate the watertightness warranty. Although my Hobby was provided with watertightness warranty paper-work (vouchers that a Hobby dealer stamped and returned to the Hobby factory each time an annual inspection had been carried out), I had no documentation relating to the 2-year conversion warranty. My understanding is that the Hobby conversion warranty does not cover major appliances (eg. the heater and fridge) that are warranted by their own manufacturer. If there is any link between the Hobby conversion warranty and the Hobby watertightness warranty, I have no documentation saying this is the case. However, when Brownhills was the sole UK Hobby agent, a Brownhills representative told me that, where Hobbys marketed in the UK were concerned, failing to have the ‘Year One’ watertightness inspection carried out also invalidated the conversion warranty. I’ve no idea if that statement was correct, but (as you seem to be uncertain about the terms and conditions of your motorhome’s Hobby warranties) it’s something you may want to check as soon as practicable with a Hobby dealership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Derek's reply echos the situation with our Rapido which is Fiat based. Two Year Fiat warranty, and three year body conversion (on the proviso that the habitation check is carried out annually within a month of the purchase) and one year for ancillary equipment. My question is "Why are UK residents short changed with only two year warranties rather than three years ? Or just another case of Rip off Britain , to save Ford and Fiat the cost of third year warranty costs ? Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 My understanding, Tony, is that all Ford/Fiat base vehicles sold in UK have the standard Euro 2 year warranty, plus an insurance backed third year warranty. Where motorhomes are constructed outside UK they will have only the standard Euro two years warranty, and will have the UK (pretty much) standard insurance backed third year only if the converter agreed to pay the insurance premium within the price of the RHD chassis. So, far from rip off Britain, it is a case of rip-off Rapido (or Hobby etc) who were too tight to pay the premium on the van you chose! :-) I also understand that under German law where a vehicle is converted by a third party for sale to the public, the converter has to match the original manufacturer's guarantee with their own. So, for motorhomes converted in Germany, on base vehicles supplied with the standard Euro 2 year manufacturer's guarantee, the converter must also guarantee his elements for two years. In the case of items such as heaters etc, this means, I was told, that whereas these come with a manufacturer's one year warranty, the converter must assume the risk on the second year himself. Problem is, I can't now remember who it was who told me that, but I think it was probably Hobby UK. However, that is in Germany. In some cases (though not all), it seems this concept is exported with the vehicle when sold outside Germany. If I was told by Hobby UK, then it will reflect their understanding of how the Hobby guarantee should be interpreted in UK. Anyone concerned should check first in their documentation, and if still unclear with the UK agent for their van make, rather than with their dealer, as not all dealers will know and may well say it is one year only. I am unaware of any such law in France or, if so, whether the concept might travel with the vehicle in the same way. As ever, folk should check the warranty terms carefully, preferably before they buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-02-03 5:15 PM My understanding, Tony, is that all Ford/Fiat base vehicles sold in UK have the standard Euro 2 year warranty, plus an insurance backed third year warranty. Where motorhomes are constructed outside UK they will have only the standard Euro two years warranty, and will have the UK (pretty much) standard insurance backed third year only if the converter agreed to pay the insurance premium within the price of the RHD chassis... A 2-year Fiat + 1-year insurance-backed warranty may apply to Fiat based-motorhomes marketed in the UK, but it does not apply to Ford Transit-based motorhomes retailed in this country. New Transit-based motorhomes 'first-retailed' in the UK should have a Ford 3-year-duration comprehensive base-vehicle warranty, just like a UK-retailed white-van Transit. The current Ford warranty is described here: http://www.ford.co.uk/BuyingandprotectingyourFord/Warranties/Commercial-Vehicle If I remember correctly, supplementary benefits (eg. Ford Assistance) have varied in duration, but I'm certain that, since the Transit Mk 6 was introduced in 2000, a UK-retailed Transit's Ford warranty has always been 3-year duration. The warranty duration for Ford-based motorhomes was discussed (and argued over) at length in 2008. These two threads refer: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Ford-Warranties/11285/ http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Motorhome-warranty-duration-/11703/#M114404 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Derek Uzzell - 2013-02-03 6:30 PM Brian Kirby - 2013-02-03 5:15 PM My understanding, Tony, is that all Ford/Fiat base vehicles sold in UK have the standard Euro 2 year warranty, plus an insurance backed third year warranty. Where motorhomes are constructed outside UK they will have only the standard Euro two years warranty, and will have the UK (pretty much) standard insurance backed third year only if the converter agreed to pay the insurance premium within the price of the RHD chassis... A 2-year Fiat + 1-year insurance-backed warranty may apply to Fiat based-motorhomes marketed in the UK, but it does not apply to Ford Transit-based motorhomes retailed in this country. New Transit-based motorhomes 'first-retailed' in the UK should have a Ford 3-year-duration comprehensive base-vehicle warranty, just like a UK-retailed white-van Transit. The current Ford warranty is described here: http://www.ford.co.uk/BuyingandprotectingyourFord/Warranties/Commercial-Vehicle If I remember correctly, supplementary benefits (eg. Ford Assistance) have varied in duration, but I'm certain that, since the Transit Mk 6 was introduced in 2000, a UK-retailed Transit's Ford warranty has always been 3-year duration. The warranty duration for Ford-based motorhomes was discussed (and argued over) at length in 2008. These two threads refer: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Ford-Warranties/11285/ http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Motorhome-warranty-duration-/11703/#M114404 Thank you for that, Derek. I had assumed Ford's warranty would mirror Fiat's in more ways than its duration. Should we infer that all Ford based imported motorhomes sold in UK will come with only two years warranty, with only the UK sourced vans having 3 years, or do you know if some manufacturers can get the RHD Ford chassis with the 3 years Ford warranty? It seems they should, since no Transit platform-cabs or camper chassis cabs are made in UK, and all RHD variants will be destined for the British Isles. Reading back through the earlier strings you linked, I was reminded I hadn't read any of fred grant's classic "hand-grenade" posts for some time. Seems the last time he logged on was 9/7/09. Does anyone know any more? I used to enjoy his contributions, which could be very funny, and were seldom as daft as he made them appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-02-05 7:02 PM Thank you for that, Derek. I had assumed Ford's warranty would mirror Fiat's in more ways than its duration. Should we infer that all Ford based imported motorhomes sold in UK will come with only two years warranty, with only the UK sourced vans having 3 years, or do you know if some manufacturers can get the RHD Ford chassis with the 3 years Ford warranty? It seems they should, since no Transit platform-cabs or camper chassis cabs are made in UK, and all RHD variants will be destined for the British Isles. Don't know about Ford but my Fiat is RHD cab, but LHD rear, Fiat UK have confirmed that my warranty is only 2 years. This highlighted another failing of the Fiat agent, when we took it in for 1st service I asked if they could check the warrenty, on picking the van up they said they couldn't confirm either way but if a fault should appear in 3rd year they would check it there and then, well that would be fine and dandy if we where stranded in europe with no breakdown warenty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-02-05 7:02 PM ...Should we infer that all Ford based imported motorhomes sold in UK will come with only two years warranty, with only the UK sourced vans having 3 years, or do you know if some manufacturers can get the RHD Ford chassis with the 3 years Ford warranty? It seems they should, since no Transit platform-cabs or camper chassis cabs are made in UK, and all RHD variants will be destined for the British Isles... Dare I say it, but I thought this issue had been fully resolved in previous forum discussions. With regard to the duration of the Ford 'base' warranty, It should not matter whether a Transit-based motorhome is LHD or RHD, what design of chassis is used, whether the motorhome is UK-'handed' (habitation entrance-door on left) or Continental-handed (habitation entrance-door on right), or whether the conversion to a motorhome took place in the UK or not. The Ford warranty of a Transit-based motorhome commences when the motorhome is sold to a retail buyer and it's the country in which that sale takes place that decides the duration of the warranty. Let's take some examples... It used to (and may still) be possible to obtain RHD Hymer motorhomes via a German dealership. If you bought a Transit-based RHD Hymer Van in that manner, it would have a 2-year Ford base warranty because the retail transaction would be in Germany and a 2-year warranty is what new Transits retailed in Germany get. And, if you bought a Transit-based LHD Hymer Van from that German dealership, the motorhome would also have a 2-year Ford warranty. If you trotted along to a Hymer dealership in the UK and ordered a Hymer Van, when you took delivery the Ford base warranty would be 3 years duration, because the retail transaction would be in the UK and a 3-year warranty is what new Transits retailed in the UK get. The chances are, in this instance, that the Van would be RHD but, if you insisted on LHD and the UK Hymer dealership could order one from the Hymer factory, that LHD vehicle, when sold to you in the UK, would also attract a 3-year Ford warranty. One UK converter produces Transit-based motorhomes on Ford's camping-car chassis - Auto-Trail with the "Tribute" coachbuilt range. As far as I'm aware these vehicles are not marketed outside the UK, so they will all have a UK-appropriate 3-year Ford base warranty. However, if Auto-Trail chose to market them in, say, Germany, a Transit-based Tribute (RHD or LHD) purchased from a (hypothetical) German Auto-Trail dealership would have a 2-year Ford base warranty because the retail transaction would be in Germany where a 2-year Ford warranty duration applies to Transits. I recall discussing this with Roy Wood Transits (RWT) when they were the UK Westfaila importers. I was told that, should I want a Transit-based Westfalia Nugget in RHD format it would have a 3-year Ford base warranty but, if I wanted the motorhome in LHD it would have a 2-year Ford warranty. This was because RWT would order the RHD Nugget directly from the Westfalia factory and it would be 'first retailed' to me in the UK, whereas, with a LHD Nugget, RWT would source the motorhome via a German dealership that would 'middle-man' the transaction, selling the vehicle to RWT who would then sell it on to me. As the 'first retail' buyer would be the German dealership as far as Ford was concerned, the warranty would be the 2-year German Transit one. In a nutshell then, where Ford Transit-based new motorhomes are concerned, the Ford base warranty conditions depend on where, geographically, the motorhome is initially sold retail. Fred Grant was getting on in years (or claimed to be!) and, at one stage, said that he was seeking to sell his motorhome (an elderly Elddis Autoking if I remember correctly). Perhaps he was successful and ceased participating in forum discussions as a result. Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 ......and just to add to Derek's post (with which I agree); Anyone buying new a continental-built, but UK-market bought, Transit-based motorhome may well find that the warranty as initially determined by Ford dealers (by reference to Ford's systems), is only two years (and it may also have started when the vehicle was delivered to/PDI'd on behalf of the converter). This generally arises because the vehicle is not retailed through the Ford network, and the motorhome dealer fails to notify the appropriate people of registration date. Ford UK will reset the warranty start date (to date of UK purchase) and duration (to three years). It used to be possible to do this directly with Ford Customer Services (I did mine by eMail), but AIUI, it now has to be done under the auspices of a Ford dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Thank you both for those clarifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9GYN Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 Hi Folks Just an update Van into Fords for 1st service they (Ford Dealer) have confirmed 3 year warranty on mechanicals and paint / perforation inspection is 2 yearly I have also asked about fitting spare wheel they are going to look into it and get back to me -- will keep you informed if any developments The suggestion to raise the bed is IMO a non starter wheel would have to be carried through van and major alterations to accommodate. Can't remember if it was here I read about "13" reg not being used -- I have seen 13 reg cars at dealers waiting for 1/3 delivery Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9GYN Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 K9GYN - 2013-02-14 9:58 AM Hi Folks Just an update Van into Fords for 1st service they (Ford Dealer) have confirmed 3 year warranty on mechanicals and paint / perforation inspection is 2 yearly I have also asked about fitting spare wheel they are going to look into it and get back to me -- will keep you informed if any developments The suggestion to raise the bed is IMO a non starter wheel would have to be carried through van and major alterations to accommodate. Can't remember if it was here I read about "13" reg not being used -- I have seen 13 reg cars at dealers waiting for 1/3 delivery Phil Sorry should have said from date of PDI & 1st reg in uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 PM sent to OP. For others out there wanting their Transit based MH serviced by Ford you might like to ask them about the 'Service Plan'. It is paid monthly (at no additional premium) and covers servicing for 3 years IIRC. It also gives a discount on any parts required. We looked into it and it was much cheaper than paying one lump sum every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 K9GYN - 2013-02-14 9:58 AM Hi Folks Just an update Van into Fords for 1st service they (Ford Dealer) have confirmed 3 year warranty on mechanicals and paint / perforation inspection is 2 yearly I have also asked about fitting spare wheel they are going to look into it and get back to me -- will keep you informed if any developments The suggestion to raise the bed is IMO a non starter wheel would have to be carried through van and major alterations to accommodate. Can't remember if it was here I read about "13" reg not being used -- I have seen 13 reg cars at dealers waiting for 1/3 delivery Phil Hi Phil Did you manage to confirm that the Ford 1st service for your "Van" was due at 2 years, as (on the Motorhome Matters forum) the owner (Robinhood) of a 2010-bought Hobby Van was confident that the appropriate service interval for FWD Transits with the 2.2litre motor was annually? It will certainly be true with a Hobby Van T-500FSC that locating a spare-wheel beneath the bed would require the wheel to be carried through the vehicle, and that it can't be stored there without modifications being made. Whether such modifications are considered "major alterations" depends on how talented a DIYer one is and what solution is arrived. If I were attempting it I'd want to be able to remove the modifications prior to selling the vehicle in the future and to have no sign remain of their presence. I don't know if that would be practicable - if I thought it would not be, I wouldn't attempt it. On the other thread JandP mentions that their 2008 Hymer Van has its spare-wheel underslung amidships on the left. Attempting this on a Hobby Van T-500FSC would mean modifying its exhaust system and mounting the spare-wheel on the underside of the chassis floor-pan somehow. I don't think there was ever much doubt over Hymer employing a Ford winding mechanism - it's how Hymer fixed the mechanism on the chassis that's the unknown. It will be interesting to learn what your Ford Dealer tells you about fitting a spare-wheel. The "13" registration issue was discussed here: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/New-Vehicle-Registration-March-2013/30259/#M352576 There were reports last year that new-car buyers would be allowed the option to avoid the "13" number. An example is here: http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/285994/superstitious_buyers_can_skip_13reg.html But this was just a 'choice' thing and the norm would be a "13" number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9GYN Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 Spoke to dealer about service intervals response was that 1st service at 12 months irrespective of mileage and this is what was done. In so far as the spare wheel is concerned they were non commital To garage the spare via the van would require mods to bed base and garage ceiling/ gas locker ceiling as I do not want to undertake anything that could be detrimental to future disposal I will not be going down this route Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Thanks for the reply. In another thread you said that the build-date of your Hobby Van was October 2010. In this February 2013 thread you said that your motorhome was due for its 1st service and your Ford dealer has confirmed that the service interval is annual. Perhaps you originally meant to write that the motorhome's build-date had been October 2011? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Derek Uzzell - 2013-02-15 8:15 AM Thanks for the reply. In another thread you said that the build-date of your Hobby Van was October 2010. In this February 2013 thread you said that your motorhome was due for its 1st service and your Ford dealer has confirmed that the service interval is annual. Perhaps you originally meant to write that the motorhome's build-date had been October 2011? ....I suspect it might be the build date of the Transit, Derek. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9GYN Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 You are correct sorry for misleading --build date Oct 2011 Purchase Mar 2112 Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 K9GYN - 2013-02-14 9:58 AM Hi Folks Just an update Van into Fords for 1st service they (Ford Dealer) have confirmed 3 year warranty on mechanicals and paint / perforation inspection is 2 yearly I have also asked about fitting spare wheel they are going to look into it and get back to me -- will keep you informed if any developments The suggestion to raise the bed is IMO a non starter wheel would have to be carried through van and major alterations to accommodate. Can't remember if it was here I read about "13" reg not being used -- I have seen 13 reg cars at dealers waiting for 1/3 delivery Phil On my 2008 Transit 140, the anti perforation inspection is every 12 months (done at service time). Have Ford changed to a two year check? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 It's possible that the very latest Transit Custom small panel-van has a paintwork/perforation inspection on a 2-year basis, as this model's standard service-interval is also 2 years (though an intermediate annual check is recommended by Ford). I'd be surprised if earlier Transits with an annual service-interval have a paintwork/perforation inspection with a 2-year interval, as it would be logical to combine the inspection with the service. The following webpage, in the "What are the owner's responsibilities?" and "What is not covered by the perforation warranty?" sections, says "Ensure that the body panels are examined annually..." and "...during the annual body & paint check". http://www.ford.co.uk/BuyingandprotectingyourFord/Warranties/FAQs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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