£900 Annual Road Tax?

[Guest Mike C]

Without wishing to start an argument about environmental or political issues (some chance)I wonder how many of you caught the Channel 5 news item on Road Tax. Professor David Begg, Professor of Transport at Robert Gordon University Aberdeen and, more importantly the Transport Advisor to the Deputy Prime Minister one John Prescott, is calling for Road Tax on all cars that do less than 35 mpg (measuring method undefined) to be a minimum of £900 per annum. As most motor caravans are rated as cars this will also include most of our vehicles. The justification for this, put in simple terms, is to "encourage" motorists to abandon uneconomical vehicles in favour of smaller more fuel efficent vehicles or move to public transport. This suggestion may well force some poorer motorists off the road but increasing the standing costs (Road Tax, Insurance, Breakdown Cover etc.) will encourage many drivers to use their vehicles more to reduce the cost per mile. Surely the answer is to increase running costs by including road tax as an element of fuel pricing so that those who drive the most pay the most. Not that I personally support this, there are too many categories of driver who would suffer unfairly, but it seems the lesser of two evils. This seemed a reasonable argument supported by Nigel Humphries of the Association of British Drivers. David Begg has an answer to this as demonstrated by his support for the Edinburgh City Centre Congestion Charging rejected by the public. He wants to see congestion charging widely adopted by all British Cities. Will not happen? Do not count on it.

[Guest Roy Hamilton]

Do we know how he arrived at £900.00? And what about the commercial vehicle? How does he keep this from affecting the whole cost of living? I am sure that this is just mad enough for Mr P to start thinking about it, like regionally governing Cornwall from Gloucester!

[Guest Bill]

If this lunatic idea reaches fruition I think we are all going to have to think about registering our rigs "off-shore". I was in Portugal recently and was told that their road tax is €15 per year

[Guest henry]

think i may well have to move to Portugal! How much is it in France???!!! regards Henry

[Guest David Powell]

Isn't this a case of politicians,"thinking out loud" about what they can inflict on the nation in ten years time? When it boils down to it, they really haven't a clue how to deal with our over crowded roads have they, we have more vehicles per mile than any other country in the world, which tells me that we haven't got enough roads. So whose to blame for that? So they just think of ways rob us of more cash to hide their incompetence. £900 road tax would hit me twice, as it would a lot of others, as well as our motor home we tow a caravan also. You can't find a tow car that does more that 35 M.P.G. [Revert to horses???] or [Emigrate]

[Guest Tony S]

Road tax has been abolished in France since a few years now. However, motorways are payable but very safe and the 'aires de service' are the best in europe. A £900 a year road fund license seems excessive considering the amount of tax already raked in on petrol sales. More roads? Are you serious? It's up to all of us to limit as much as possible our use of individual means of transport, to use a bike where possible and to help survive rather than help destroy the environment.

[Guest pat]

There was an article on the news this morning that nice Mr Darling is considering abolishing road tax in favour of a charge per mile, different rates depending on the road ie M25 something like £1.30 a mile. Somehow monitored by satellite, I wonder how much for the technology WE would have to buy/retrofit? I know that on the local to me M27 an awfull amount of money is being spent on "imformation signs" at or near each junction, these signs are obviously to track vehicle movement when coupled to so called smart cameras so expect to have to buy a card for the windscreen of your vehicle and be charged accordingly, similar to Austria. Pat

[Guest Norma]

Well I do hope all the taxis that Prof Begg travels in run better than 35mpg and that his girlfriend's BMW (if he still has the same one) is well cost effective. Because of boundary changes (gerrymandering) we now have Mr Darling MP and I doubt if he'll represent me in this matter!

[Guest Denis Hearn]

Don't things like this just make your blood boil, I cannot think of any other nation would put up with what the British have to put up with. The government collects £45 billion (including 60p on each litre of fuel) in taxes from the motorist and spends just £8 billion on roads. Basically they just use the motorist as a cash cow to plunder whenever they require more money to waste. We have the worst roads in Europe and we really need more roads and better roads as does any modern economy. The argument that we will end up tarmacing the whole country is complete emotional blackmail as I read somewhere that as a percentage 0.0001% of the country is tarmaced. One only needs to travel in the air over the country to see how true this is. The lack of decent infrastructure in this country is what has lead to the over development of the south east at the expense of the rest of the country.

[Guest David Powell]

Like Tony says about paying on the motor ways like the French do makes good sense, but in the U.K. we would have goods vehicles, big and small, using 'A' & 'B' roads to avoid the tolls, if the Severn Bridges are any gauge. I forget the exact figure now, but something like 1700 more goods vehicles per week go from Wales to England than go England to Wales, over the bridges, as the toll is only charged one way. Presumably they all come back via Gloucester(a lot of them will be Irish from the ferries). I travel the 'A' & 'B' roads where possible because of the relatively lower volume of traffic.[and more scenic]. If a toll was charged on U.K. motor ways the ballance of traffic volume may sort it's self out. I often think it may a better way to put road tax onto fuel tax so that we are all road taxed per mile rather than per year, which would be beneficial to us motor caravaners. As for the environment, I think you will be hard pressed to find a group of people more environmently conscious than motor homers and caravaners. That is why we do low mileage, and catch the bus into town, or have a bike rack on behind. There are thousands of motor homers who would love to be able to ride a bike, like all those motor homes with a "blue badge" stuck in the windscreen, some can hardly walk let alone ride a bike. Knowing our luck, before £900 p/a road tax comes into effect we may all be Europeans, and have all the advantages that Tony says the French have. Even pay with euros, and drive Kilometers on the right hand side of the road.

[Guest Mike C]

Hello all, some very interesting postings, I hardly dare mention that Friends of the Earth are calling for a £500 Road Tax. All the so called solutions are of the Big Tax Stick variety but we never hear of incentives to use our vehicles less. How about cheap public transport to encourage use of buses and trains in Urban areas and more incentives for more environmentally friendly fuels. There are so few vehicle manufacturers that are producing truly efficient vehicles. The Toyota Prius and Honda Insight come to mind but Ford have dropped the electric car Think project. Perhaps tax incentives for the manufacture of these type of vehicles would kick start their mass production. This could also include the types of commercial vehicles that are used as base vehicles for Motor Caravans. Tony S, No road tax in France but is vehicle insurance higher than in the UK and what about the general levels of taxation such as Income Tax and their equivalent of Council Tax? I would be interested in information on this. Perhaps their system is one of taxing everyone fairly rather than clobbering the motorist. Regards, Mike C.

[Guest Jules]

Hi all, Like most of you say it makes your blood boil. It is another rip off Britain tax and the people who govern us badly can't think of a solution. Road tax abolished and petrol increased in cost would suit many who do walk and cycle but I know of many who travel to work and public transport can not serve them well and a four/five hour cycle would not be possible. The first move our government must take is to provide a well run transport system with guards/conductors and the service must be efficiant and clean (fine chance eh?) where are all the people forced off the road going to sit on overcrowded trains? School run needs some solutions and my area has introduced Yellow American buses to do the school run daily, a great idea you might think! So why do several people still take the kids in the car? sometimes having to stop in the car behind the bus while it waits for a gap in traffic. This bus stops all along the road at the bottom of farm tracks and right outside these kids houses so work that one out. The buses that run on our narrow single track lanes have bike racks fitted to the back but never have I seen this in use. So motorhome travellers and cyclists a camp site and this kind of transport is available in Hebden Bridge. It seems to me that plenty is in place to help the environment and recyle etc,Hebden Bridge is a kind of Glastonbury in the North but people will not give up their own transport easily and why should they? personal transport cost dearly whether it be a car,truck,4x4 or a motorhome. Most of us purchase a vehicle because we can get to work no other way or have saved and looked forward to touring in our motorhome or towing a caravan. Tax is the buzz word to this government and unfair tax will always be introduced at very regular intervals. Leave the drivers alone and put up tax on drink instead of introducing ASBO's to deal with louts who can't hold drink and go on to behave like yobs. Drink brings in much revenue for the government, so much so that opening hours increase to the wrong kind of high volume drinker who go on to extend the volume of work in the NHS. I guess we could all go on with this debate for weeks as we look at government and society and how it does not work! Jules

[Guest Tony S]

I have never paid any income tax in France as I earn less than the minimum sum required to be subjected to it. Fully com Insurance for my A class is £240 a year and there's no road tax. Diesel is at 98 cents (euro) per litre at the moment. The motorways are quite expensive but very well maintained (planted with trees and shrubs everywhere) and have the advantage of offering free night-time halts, free water and emptying facilities. Local rates charges aren't high. (I pay £1000 a year for a four storey house with a restaurant on the ground floor). France, for me , (I moved here in 1982) was a land of opportunity. I've been totally accepted, which is why the frequent racist attacks by the British press against the French upsets me so.

[Guest Bill]

I suspect all this might be part of a standard politicians’ trick: get a buffoon like Prescott to propose something utterly outrageous, so that everybody heaves a sigh of relief when they do what you’re actually planning, which I think is to spread Livingstone’s congestion charge from central London to the entire country. The standard argument against building/improving roads is that traffic just grows to fill the new capacity. In the past there has been some truth in this but, at least down here in the south east, there is now pretty much one car for every licenced driver. Since it is obviously impossible to drive more than one vehicle at a time, I suggest that just a little more capacity might solve the problem.

[Guest Tony S]

More roads? NO NO NO... for the very good reason that Britain is a small island. The answer lies in persuading people to use individual means of transport as little as possible. (unless it's a bike). Laying low noise level road surfaces, taxing cars in towns, encouraging car sharing and highly taxing SUV's is the way forward.

[Guest henry]

fel that it is high time that someone brought back Guy Fawkes!!!!!!!!! and WE have the fire lighters! or bring back Oliver Cromwell to sort out the corruption!! p.s anyone fancy forming a new political party (Motor r Us) regards Henry

[Guest Bill]

Henry, what a great idea! Can I be prime minister? I'll change my name to Robespierre and introduce that fine French invention, the guillotine. In my last job before I retired we had a real tree-hugger on the staff. I was heavily into an aerobatics course at the time, and when she started up I told her it was my ambition to turn as much of the Earth's dwindling fossil fuel reserves into aircraft noise as I could. It was a conversation stopper!!

[Guest Pol]

Does anybody want my advice on this subject?

[Guest Denis Hearn]

Tony, I do find that comment of yours rather unfair, there you are living in France with good roads, good public transport and cheap motoring taxes. Britain needs more roads and better roads or this crumbling infrastructure will drive investment out of the country. This is happening already !! The biggest problem this country faces is the centralisation in the south east. Many parts of the "frozen" north are crying out for better roads, transport and more houses. The development of this country is so lopsided which can only be corrected with a better transport infrastructure to develop and improve the economy of other parts of the country. Roads is always an emotive subject but just go up in the air over this country (excluding the south east) and you will see how sparsely populated the majority of the country actually is.

[Guest Pat]

Oh yes please Pol I look forward to your input!! Pat

[Guest David Powell]

Why was Britain so easily conquered, and successfully governed for so many years by the Romans? ROADS! They built miles and miles of lovely straight ROADS!

[Guest Tony S]

Never mind the Romans, Hitler and Mussolini also built miles and miles of straight roads but it didn't get them far. France has good infrastructures because public investment has always been kept up. The country is much larger also, so new roads weren't such a problem to trace. Inevitably, in years to come, France will face the same problems of overcrowding as Britain. A plan Marshall is called for now to provide massive iprovements in public transport in the UK to make up for the decennies of neglect.

[Guest Roy Hamilton]

What I'd like to know is how did the Romans know that they were heading straight for where they wanted to get to when building the roads.

[Guest David Powell]

G.P.S. Roy G.P.S.

[Guest Tony Norton]

Hello All One point I haven't seen mentioned in the "Meja". To implement a "road usage" charge it would be necessary to be able to check road useage; only possible by "chipping" all vehicles, and satelite tracking. Once this is done "they" will know where every vehicle is at any time of the day and night. The formula distance/time = velocity, comes to mind. Goodbye speed cameras of all types, we've got you wherever and whenever we want to "do" you, and raise a bit more income into the bargain. Only problem is that, within a year 50% of drivers will have lost their licences and the country will be gridlocked by the other 50% of "strict limit observing" vehicles. Imagine 3 lanes of a motorway all travelling at just under 70mph. White van man (particularly those driving Merc Sprinters) would never be able to get anywhere to do his job! Ah well. Tony N