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2007 Citroen relay problem
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userMark Wilkes
Posted: 22 October 2021 3:36 PM
Subject: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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Hi everyone please can someone help me as I am losing my mind. There is a grinding noise from the near side wheel so I have had the cv joint changed, its still doing it. The garage said it will be the top suspension joint, so that was changed and its still doing it. I took it back to the garage again today and they said they have checked it all and greased up the joints and surprise surprise it is still making a grinding noise. Has anyone any suggestions as to what it could be as its booked in again on Monday or what can I do about them failing to fix the problem. Thank you.
userKeithl
Posted: 22 October 2021 3:46 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 


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I assume this is the continuation of your earlier thread and the garage have again failed to find your problem...

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/c-v-problems/58945/

Keith.
userMark Wilkes
Posted: 22 October 2021 3:48 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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yes. again the problem is still there and I am at my wits end.
userlaimeduck
Posted: 22 October 2021 5:38 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 


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May or may not be helpful as I know nothing about Citroen Relays........

I had a rumbling/grinding noise from the front nearside on my 2005 Benimar Ducato which turned out to be a failing wheel bearing.
Had it changed in a garage in Millau, France, who said it was common and knew what they were doing. (Cost about £260- 300?)
This was 4 or 5 years ago, and as I recall the noise was less on cornering than on the straight (probably due to the tapered bearings?)

I would have thought any garage worth their salt should be able to determine the cause of your rumbling?

Jeremy
userMark Wilkes
Posted: 22 October 2021 5:48 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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Thank you Jeremy I don't think the garage are worth their salt but I will mention it to them when it goes in again on Monday.
usergranddad
Posted: 22 October 2021 7:23 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 


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il go for the wearing as sometime you get a rumbing noise but yours sounds like it it metal to metal

Edited by granddad 2021-10-22 7:24 PM
userMark Wilkes
Posted: 22 October 2021 7:27 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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Hi Grandad it is a metal to metal sound and it seems to be worse when the van is on a long journey.
userbuddy
Posted: 22 October 2021 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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Could it be a stone or similar trapped between the brake disc and its metal shield or maybe the shield is loose or bent.
userMark Wilkes
Posted: 22 October 2021 7:46 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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Thanks Buddy but that was the first thing we checked and I wish it was that as it would of saved us a lot of money.
userTracker
Posted: 22 October 2021 7:50 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 


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Wheel bearing? Maybe inaudible with no load when you rock or spin the wheel but does it vary according to steering lock or when rounding a bend in the road which loads/unloads the weight on one side?
It was not uncommon in 'the old days' for suspension to creak when dry and not creak when the bushes etc were wet - not a solution as such but maybe a pointer if it does it?
I doubt you have any recourse on payment unless the agreed contract was to cure the noise rather than replace specific parts - other than try another garage - possible one that specialises in commercial vehicles rather than cars.
userMark Wilkes
Posted: 22 October 2021 8:13 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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Hi Tracker. Thanks for the reply. I think it might be the wheel bearing as it sounds worse when my wife's wheelchair is in the campervan as it adds weight to the left side behind the passenger seat. It does sound worse on right hand corners. The agreement with the garage was to sort the grinding noise out and we have had the cv joint and the upper mounting done which has cost a lot and my concerns now are that did they need doing if it turns out to be the bearing and I can't see why they haven't checked for that first.
userTracker
Posted: 22 October 2021 9:33 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 


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Although I have, as an amateur, replaced many wheel bearings over the years I have never had to do one on a Sevel van so I don't know if they have any specific special needs or tools - somehow I doubt it so it should not be expensive if the mechanic knows what he is doing - especially a commercial vehicle specialist?
We had similar vans for many years and I do seem to recall the front wheel bearings being checked for excess slack at MOT time.

userwitzend
Posted: 23 October 2021 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 


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Mark Wilkes - 2021-10-22 5:48 PM

Thank you Jeremy I don't think the garage are worth their salt but I will mention it to them when it goes in again on Monday.

I'd be taking it to another garage and asking this one for a refund of the labour charges as the work they done cured nothing

Edited by witzend 2021-10-23 8:37 AM
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 23 October 2021 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 


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As this link shows, there is a lot of online information and advice on vehicle wheel-bearing problems and how they may be diagnosed

https://tinyurl.com/yhnbumht

and these indvidual links are possibly as good as any.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl7cU2wHBXg

https://www.eeuroparts.com/blog/how-to-diagnose-wheel-bearing-noise/

The noise a failing CV joint makes will normally differ from that made by a failing wheel-bearing and be more apparent when the vehicle is being tightly turned. And - based on Mark’s description - it’s hard to see the front suspension top mount causing the noise.

From the onset the wheel bearings should have been high on the list of prime suspects and (as was said in the previous thread about this) it would make sense to get a 2nd opinion about this issue.

This 2017 forum thread discussed the replacement of front wheel bearings of Ducato (X244) models

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Replacement-Wheel-Bearings-on-a-Ducato/46705/

and other online comments suggest that the task is no easier for later Ducato X250 models (or for their Citroen Relay/Peugeot Boxer siblings).
userMark Wilkes
Posted: 23 October 2021 8:58 AM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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Thank you all again for your replies the van is booked in again on Monday and I will be suggesting that they look at the bearings and seeing what they say about replacing parts that it didn't need but I think they will say that they were in need of replacing and I can't prove that they didn't need it.
userbuddy
Posted: 23 October 2021 9:46 AM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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If no fault is found with the wheel bearings get them to check the engine mountings on the side that the noise is coming from, as if the rubber in the mountings collapse you get metal to metal contact The other thing that needs to be checked is the front sub-frame to body tightness.
usergranddad
Posted: 23 October 2021 12:51 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 


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Mark Wilkes - 2021-10-23 8:58 AM

Thank you all again for your replies the van is booked in again on Monday and I will be suggesting that they look at the bearings and seeing what they say about replacing parts that it didn't need but I think they will say that they were in need of replacing and I can't prove that they didn't need it.

go to another garage it round about £300 to replace bearing
userteflon2
Posted: 23 October 2021 5:24 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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Mark Wilkes - 2021-10-23 8:58 AM

Thank you all again for your replies the van is booked in again on Monday and I will be suggesting that they look at the bearings and seeing what they say about replacing parts that it didn't need but I think they will say that they were in need of replacing and I can't prove that they didn't need it.

It's quite possible that the garage does not have the equipment and are working around it in hope of a cure. From memory it needs a high power press and specific dies to change the wheel bearing. Mine was done at a commercial vehicle garage and was pricey.
userMark Wilkes
Posted: 25 October 2021 1:35 AM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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Hi Teflon2. I will find out in the morning as its going back to the garage again.
userlancepar
Posted: 25 October 2021 9:18 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 


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Have a check inside the wheel rim to see if there are any witness marks where something is catching. I had an occasion where a pad retaining clip had worked it way out of position.
Was more of a scraping noise though not grinding.
userMark Wilkes
Posted: 26 October 2021 1:59 AM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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Hi all, the van went in again today and they replaced the top suspension mount again and said they have driven it and all is good. I got in the van drove half a mile and could still here the noise. My wife came out in the van and recorded the sound and sent it to them on their Facebook page and we are now waiting to see what they say. I know the garage is as frustrated as we are but it still doesn't explain the problem.
userJohn52
Posted: 26 October 2021 5:53 AM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 


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Tracker - 2021-10-22 9:33 PM
I do seem to recall the front wheel bearings being checked for excess slack at MOT time.


The modern ones can be noisy without any excess slack.
Last front wheel bearing I changed had no discernable play -
and I thought the noise was coming from the rear
I inly established it was the front wheel bearing making the noise when I spun the wheel with an angle grinder held against the tyre.
userMark Wilkes
Posted: 26 October 2021 6:57 AM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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Hi John52, they say the nearside(where the noise is) wheel bearing is ok but the offside one will need changing in time ? ? ?
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 26 October 2021 6:51 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 


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Mark Wilkes - 2021-10-26 6:57 AM
Hi John52, they say the nearside(where the noise is) wheel bearing is ok but the offside one will need changing in time ? ? ?

Mark, are you a member of RAC or AA (or any other motoring organisation that could give you access to an automotive engineers report) - ideally before the van goes back to the garage again?

Is the garage a Citroen authorised workshop, preferably for commercial vehicles? If so, they should be able to call in a Citroen technical adviser to assist diagnosis. I just have the uncomfortable feeling, from what you say, that they are indulging in discovery learning at your (I assume considerable) expense. I also assume that the "failed" parts will have already been disposed of, so will not be available for inspection to verify that they actually justified replacement?
userMark Wilkes
Posted: 26 October 2021 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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Hi Brian. its just a local garage, one of many round here. I agree the parts will be long gone. The van is back in on Thursday morning but if I get the usual answers from them then I will look into the RAC as we are with them and see how much it will be to ask them for a report.
userdawki
Posted: 28 October 2021 5:07 PM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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I’d say wheel bearing by the what you have told us
userMark Wilkes
Posted: 29 October 2021 12:16 AM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 
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Hi all, just an update on the ongoing saga of the van. The garage have now said that its the nearside suspension that needs replacing. I hope that this is the end to it once its done next Wednesday as we can't afford anymore after this if it isn't.
userKeithl
Posted: 29 October 2021 9:02 AM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 


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Mark Wilkes - 2021-10-29 12:16 AM

The garage have now said that its the nearside suspension that needs replacing.

Sorry but that is a real cop out!

"nearside suspension" could mean any of dozens of components and I get the feeling they really do not know what they are talking about or, more likely, are trying to baffle you with BS!!!

I strongly suggest you get a second opinion before letting these amateurs loose on your van again!

Keith.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 29 October 2021 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 


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I agree with Keith.

I note that there’s a Fiat Professional agency not far from Bolton

http://fiatprofessional.mopar.eu/uk-en/DealerPages/3112-77-0067053-000.aspx

and they ought to be able to accurately diagnose the cause of this type of fault (even though Mark's vehicle is a Citroen Relay) and should have the equipment to replace wheel bearings if that’s where the problem lies.
userJohn52
Posted: 29 October 2021 11:18 AM
Subject: RE: 2007 Citroen relay problem
 


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Brian Kirby - 2021-10-26 6:51 PM .. assume that the "failed" parts will have already been disposed of, so will not be available for inspection to verify that they actually justified replacement?

I wonder about the value of looking at the 'failed parts anyway.
My first job in a garage was repairing punctures - back in the days when car tyres had inner tubes.
Some of the customers might moan about the price of a new inner tube when a cheaper patch might have done the job.
So the boss told me to make sure there was a hole in the inner tube big enough to avoid any argument

Edited by John52 2021-10-29 11:30 AM
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