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3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
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userarjxh56
Posted: 15 May 2014 8:08 PM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
 


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I was with them when they checked the alternator voltage. They used a machine connected to the battery and also measured it using the OBD connection and a laptop. The laptop showed 12.3v and they said this was a fault with the laptop and windows 98 so the reading was wrong. They then used the other machine which was connected to the battery, this one checked the charging circuit etc.. This was reading up to 12.9v when revved, It also checked the diode or something like that? It did confirm there was no fault on the charging circuit, which the guy said had been coming up with the old alternator.

I then got my little volt meter out and put it between the + and - on the battery and it was reading the same, roughly 12.9v ... Considerably less than the last alternator and considerably less than the 14+ volts that you mention.

I am told its a like for like swap of alternator (140A) but this one doesn't have any labels or stickers so i cannot see any model numbers etc... It looks smaller than the old one, (to me), but they said it was a like for like swap. Is there any way of me telling if its up to the job and is definitely the 140A? Would the wrong one result in lower voltage readings??

I havent checked the revving up and down, it was already running when i left the garage, I will pop outside in a few minutes and try it. I got distracted with the voltage readings!!
userarjxh56
Posted: 15 May 2014 8:24 PM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
 


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Just been out to check the revving up... to give them credit, It didn't do it, although the engine is still almost operating temperature.
I will try again in the morning when the engine has cooled as this is when it used to do it every time without fail. It may be the NC guys were correct about the alternator causing the engine to rev up, this would be one less problem for me to worry about

I will also put some load on the battery overnight so that in the morning i would expect the alternator to have to do some hard work to pull the charge back up.. I will see if it then pushes 14+ volts and this should confirm whether NC are correct about the output dropping down to a much lower voltage when the battery is at a healthy charge state?

After that i will follow NC instruction to use the van until it fails again with gearbox errors, and then take it back for the error codes to be looked into and next steps agreed.
They have also said to test the water ingress theory by hosing down the cab and steam cleaning the engine bay to see if water ingress causes the fault to occur. I will wait a week or so before doing that as i would like to enjoy the van this weekend whilst its running!
userarjxh56
Posted: 16 May 2014 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
 


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I got up eagerly this morning and tried the van.
It started first time and did not rev up, it just sat at 800rpm. It looks like NC were right about the alternator causing the revs to increase.
I also checked the alternator voltage after a night of power drain on the battery and it was showing 13.9v. This also appears to correlate with what NC said about the alternator voltage changing with the requirements of the battery?

I will use the van this weekend and see what happens...
usereuroserv
Posted: 16 May 2014 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
 
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Although this makes little sense to me; it looks encouraging for you. Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong.

Make a note to yourself that the dealer was told to replace the alternator by Fiat and would have been paid for using an original equipment part. If they have fitted an aftermarket one they may have saved a couple of hundred pounds but Fiat will not be happy about that. If you have to speak to Fiat again, it is something that you should tell them about. If everything works now and the problems are gone; no foul.
usersilverback
Posted: 16 May 2014 10:12 PM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
 


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i'm with you Nick, have posted earlier about this, but lets hope all is good for him
just as an aside Nick, today i fitted another earth strap (from the chassis earth to another screw on the gearbox cover) the question is mine already has 2 earths from the chassis, 1 to the gearbox and a braided 1 about 7cm long to the (i think) bulkhead whats holding the suspension? cant do any harm can it?
Jon
userDave Newell
Posted: 17 May 2014 7:32 AM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
 


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Dave Newell - 2014-03-26 9:09 AM

euroserv - 2014-03-25 11:31 AM

Dave Newell - 2014-03-25 10:07 AM

I spoke to a guy at the weekend whose comfortmatic had failed with almost exactly the same symptoms, the commercial garage dealing with it are apparently replacing the gearbox which seemed odd to me as it will select the gears in manual mode but not auto. That in itself tells me the selector mechanism and the ECU or wiring are more likely to be the culprit(s) than the box itself.

D.


I would be fascinated to hear how that one works out, Dave.


Me too Nick, when I see him again I'll ask for a progress report.

D.


Finally met up with him again, he had a recon box fitted due to a premature bearing failure, he tells me now that it was making some noise too. £4K for a recon box seems a tad over the odds to me plus £2600 labour to replace it. I reckon they replaced the ECU too but aren't admitting to that. Nick, would a recon box really be £4K? I would question if a brand new one should be that expensive.

D.

Edited by Dave Newell 2014-05-17 7:33 AM
userarjxh56
Posted: 4 June 2014 10:58 AM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
 


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Latest update.....

So i used the van as instructed and eventually I ran out of battery power!! On the plus side, the gearbox hasn't failed as yet!
After many phone calls to NC, a few independent tests on the charging system and another escalation to Fiat customer service, NC agreed to look into it.
In the end, NC admitted the WRONG alternator was ordered and fitted to my vehicle and this is why it wasn't charging correctly. It was ok without load, but would not provide enough power when under load. So they have now ordered a new one, (correct one i hope) and will be fitting it this week.

Hopefully i can then carry on as normal and wait for the gearbox to fail as instructed!



userMike88
Posted: 4 June 2014 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
 


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arjxh56 - 2014-06-04 10:58 AM

Latest update.....

So i used the van as instructed and eventually I ran out of battery power!! On the plus side, the gearbox hasn't failed as yet!
After many phone calls to NC, a few independent tests on the charging system and another escalation to Fiat customer service, NC agreed to look into it.
In the end, NC admitted the WRONG alternator was ordered and fitted to my vehicle and this is why it wasn't charging correctly. It was ok without load, but would not provide enough power when under load. So they have now ordered a new one, (correct one i hope) and will be fitting it this week.

Hopefully i can then carry on as normal and wait for the gearbox to fail as instructed!





Perhaps they should provide you with a new battery as well.
usereuroserv
Posted: 4 June 2014 12:07 PM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
 
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Hello,

I am a bit behind with this thread so will catch up on some answers;

First the main question.

The alternator for this vehicle is part number 504057813 for the 140A model. There are 110, 140, 150 and 180A versions listed. This Fiat part is £569 +VAT and the equivalent Bosch item is (0124 525 064) £350 + VAT which is very expensive for an aftermarket alternator. There may well be cheaper items available but given the limited amount of vehicles out there the chances of reconditioned ones are quite small. I expect they bought a nondescript copy that is probably only 110A for about £180. Now they have to do it again.

The earth question.

Funnily enough, we had a van in recently that was exhibiting earth problems even though it had already had the earth strap mod that we normally carry out. It would seem that the original earth point on the chassis rail was just not doing it so we made a longer cable and went from the gearbox to the nice shiny piece of steel where the fuel filter housing is fixed. Perfect result.

The gearbox issue.

I have been looking at this today and am alarmed at the prices of gearboxes! The old 2.8JTD using the ML box was about £1400 for a recon and £2300 for a new box but these X250's are getting silly!

A gearbox for a 2.3 is £5353 for a new one and £2358 for a recon.
A gearbox for a 3.0 is £4737 for a new one and £4127 for a recon. It does not matter whether it is a comfort-matic or not, all prices are within a £100 or so but the casings are slightly different so you have to get the right one. All the above prices are from Fiat at May 2014 and exclude VAT and any exchange surcharges.

Before anyone panics; they can be repaired for a hell of a lot less than the above and are pretty solid. I have only had one explode on me and had a spare box from a write off to go in it. The damaged one had done 180,000 miles.

I think that's it.

Nick
userarjxh56
Posted: 4 June 2014 3:43 PM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
 


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Booked in for Friday morning 7am for the new alternator. I will take the part code above and ask to see it before they install it. might be a silly question, but how will i know this is a genuine part, will it have a Fiat sticker label??

Thanks
usereuroserv
Posted: 4 June 2014 4:08 PM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
 
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The original Fiat number will be stamped onto it along with the Bosch number. Fiat only list 'reconditioned' parts for the 110A version so there are no recon versions available for yours. They could possibly obtain a Bosch part number 0986 080 060 which is the same unit but supplied without a pulley and is probably a little cheaper.

This is not to say that there is not a suitable after-market unit available from another manufacturer but it has to be the same output and be an exact replacement physically.
userMike88
Posted: 17 October 2014 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
 


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Was this issue resolved?
userarjxh56
Posted: 18 October 2014 12:48 PM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
 


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Sorry for the delay in updating the thread, Busy Busy Busy!!
I had the 'wrong' alternator replaced with the correct one and its now charging normally. It no longer revs up and down on start up either.
With regards to the gearbox, this is still under review. The last time it failed it cleared itself about 30 mins later and didn't leave any fault codes. luckily it allowed us to continue on our journey home with the AA following behind! I have been told by northern commercials to use it until it fails again and hope the codes are stored as they have no idea what the cause is?
Its a bit of a worry when we go on long trips but there is nothing i can do about it?
userarjxh56
Posted: 11 October 2019 7:29 PM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox issues
 


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Well I’m here again...

The gearbox has been fine for a while. I am now on 25k miles.
But unfortunately the gearbox is now doing very strange things.
First it put itself into neutral whilst I was in a queue. It then wouldn’t go into gear. I could hear clunking and noises but it stayed in neutral. Eventually it went in and I carried on.
Later i stopped for a few minutes (engine off) I then started up and again it wouldn’t go from neutral into gear (forward or reverse) .It was clunking as though it was going in and immediately clunking as though it was going back out again? Eventually after 5 mins of trying, it went in and allowed me to drive.. I carried on and it again went into neutral a little while later. Finally after 5mins of trying it went in and I managed to drive home and have parked it outside my house!

Any ideas?
I am too worried to drive it in case I get stuck anywhere.
userarjxh56
Posted: 12 October 2019 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox issues
 


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So this morning I had a quick look.. I wiggled wires in the loom running under the wiper arms, I checked battery and alternator voltage, I let it get up to temp and did the same again.. i moves and wiggles plugs and connectors... I couldn’t recreate it! I checked with the Autel and no codes were stored either.
I am not sure what else to check? it was changing gear normally.

I am now concerned if I drive it off somewhere it will happen again and I’ll get stuck. I would prefer to find a fault and fix it.

What else should I check? Any ideas are very welcome. Thanks
userBrambles
Posted: 12 October 2019 1:56 PM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
 


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Without going back and reading all the posts in detail but just the 1st few...it sounds like this fault is not the same as original which was flagging up warnings/errors.

As the gear box is basically the mechanical box and it has known problems sometimes with the gear selector shaft tightening up and needing greased/lubricated to ease gear selection then I have to wonder if this might be the issue. I assume you can get access to where the shaft enters the box, and is not enclosed by the automatic systems, and it can be lubricated with a high quality grease. Fingers crossed for you this might be a simple fix of just a little lubrication. Certainly nothing to lose by trying it but I cannot see how this helps confidence the fault is rectified unless there is enough movement in the shaft for you to feel some tightness and then after lubricating and a few operations any movement feels like there is much less friction.


userKennyd
Posted: 16 October 2019 4:49 PM
Subject: RE: 3.0 comfort-matic gearbox failure
 
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Having just recovered from a major comformattic problem , 2.3 , 180hp , 2500 miles , 4 weeks old
Mine stuck in 4th gear , I also could hear what I Thought Was it engaging gears , it wasn’t it was the clutch servo operating , turned out to be a loose wire at the speed controller, so sending wrong signals to the
Operating system , it just locked out , they also Told me they reset the software , hope this helps
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