A bit unreasonable?

[trialsrider]

On Fri I caught a train from Cardiff to Stafford to hopefully pick up our future van. The van was advertised on eBay through a established dealer in Stafford. A price had been agreed before travel and a £1000 non refundable deposit had been paid to secure the van.

 

Prior to me arriving the van had been serviced, motd and had a heating fault rectified which the proprietor told me cost £300 to rectify. I had arranged insurance and was ready to take the van home if the van was right.

 

Upon arrival at Stafford station I was met by a member of staff and taken to the dealership. I didn't even need to have a test drive to realise the van was not for me. It was a PVC and had clearly had a poor paint job done to to all sills and some arches. The van looked generally rough for the money bring asked. Certainly not worth the £22000 we had agreed. The conversion looked amazing and couldn't be faulted. However the base van I wouldn't have paid £1500 had it not had been converted inside.

 

I accepted my loss. We had agreed the non refundable deposit was obviously non refundable. I didn't even ask for any return of deposit. A deal is a deal and I was happy with that. I had lost £1000 but I would rather learn a harsh lesson regarding deposits than follow the purchase through and get the wrong van. I will never put a deposit on a vehicle without seeing it no matter how far I have to travel.

 

But what wound me up the most wasn't my loss of money (which the Mrs gave me a rollicking for) but the fact I then had to pay for a cab to get back to the station. Even if the service and mot cost them £200 and the heating repair another £300, they were still profiting by £500 approx. Couldn't they have had the courtesy to drop me off at the station. It was not the service I was expecting. They knew I had caught 3 trains and travelled 4 hours to get there. It makes me wonder what their after sales would have been like?

 

Not impressed.

[Wasnt Me]

That is pretty harsh.

 

Good luck finding your new van.

[colin]

I don't understand why you would put up a non refundable deposit on a unseen van.

[stevec176]

Unfortunately a lesson learnt, never pay anything up front without seeing what you're buying, who can afford to lose £1000. Have you actually looked into your rights after all the van doesnt appear to match the actual van and that isnt right so I'm sure you'll have a case, maybe through the small claims process. Give it a go it doesnt cost much, good luck.

[trialsrider]

stevec176 - 2019-08-11 9:07 PM

 

Unfortunately a lesson learnt, never pay anything up front without seeing what you're buying, who can afford to lose £1000. Have you actually looked into your rights after all the van doesnt appear to match the actual van and that isnt right so I'm sure you'll have a case, maybe through the small claims process. Give it a go it doesnt cost much, good luck.

 

I signed a agreement which stated the deposit was non refundable. I accept this. The lack of humanity in not giving me a lift back I do not.

[Keithl]

How did you pay the deposit?

 

If on a credit card then call the company and explain the circumstances and ask for a refund.

 

If by bank debit card or money transfer then call your bank and explain and ask for a 'Charge back' to get your money back.

 

They should not be allowed to get away with false representation.

 

But have to agree with others, I would NEVER part with any money without seeing the goods in person first.

 

Keith.

[trialsrider]

colin - 2019-08-11 9:06 PM

 

I don't understand why you would put up a non refundable deposit on a unseen van.

 

I work full-time and have a young child and family. Time is precious as is money. A day's annual leave plus childcare plus travel expenses probably equates to a fair few hundred pounds. It was worth the punt. The price agreed and secured via deposit was a few thousand less than the asking price. I didn't want to make the journey twice. It's a lesson learnt. This isn't my first motorhome it's my sixth. It's probably the tenth day of my life I'll never get back spent wasted looking at vans which have turned out to be rubbish.

[trialsrider]

Keithl - 2019-08-11 9:17 PM

 

How did you pay the deposit?

 

If on a credit card then call the company and explain the circumstances and ask for a refund.

 

If by bank debit card or money transfer then call your bank and explain and ask for a 'Charge back' to get your money back.

 

They should not be allowed to get away with false representation.

 

But have to agree with others, I would NEVER part with any money without seeing the goods in person first.

 

Keith.

 

It is not false representation. I simply thought the van itself was rubbish and not worth the money. They thought otherwise. I have no gripe about the deposit. A deal is a deal and I signed it. Lesson learnt.

 

I'm annoyed I had to pay for my lift back to the station. This post was about expectations of behaviour rather than deposits.

[Keithl]

trialsrider - 2019-08-11 9:33 PM

 

Keithl - 2019-08-11 9:17 PM

 

How did you pay the deposit?

 

If on a credit card then call the company and explain the circumstances and ask for a refund.

 

If by bank debit card or money transfer then call your bank and explain and ask for a 'Charge back' to get your money back.

 

They should not be allowed to get away with false representation.

 

But have to agree with others, I would NEVER part with any money without seeing the goods in person first.

 

Keith.

 

It is not false representation. I simply thought the van itself was rubbish and not worth the money. They thought otherwise. I have no gripe about the deposit. A deal is a deal and I signed it. Lesson learnt.

 

I'm annoyed I had to pay for my lift back to the station. This post was about expectations of behaviour rather than deposits.

 

OK Understood, but to me my money is too hard earned to throw away by the thousand!

 

Keith.

[trialsrider]

Keithl - 2019-08-11 9:41 PM

 

trialsrider - 2019-08-11 9:33 PM

 

Keithl - 2019-08-11 9:17 PM

 

How did you pay the deposit?

 

If on a credit card then call the company and explain the circumstances and ask for a refund.

 

If by bank debit card or money transfer then call your bank and explain and ask for a 'Charge back' to get your money back.

 

They should not be allowed to get away with false representation.

 

But have to agree with others, I would NEVER part with any money without seeing the goods in person first.

 

Keith.

 

It is not false representation. I simply thought the van itself was rubbish and not worth the money. They thought otherwise. I have no gripe about the deposit. A deal is a deal and I signed it. Lesson learnt.

 

I'm annoyed I had to pay for my lift back to the station. This post was about expectations of behaviour rather than deposits.

 

OK Understood, but to me my money is too hard earned to throw away by the thousand!

 

Keith.

 

Me too. I'm a nurse. We aren't paid in gold bars. But when you sign a contract you live by the consequences. I was not pressured to do so. I phoned them wanting the van not vice versa.

[Bulletguy]

 

Given it was advertised on ebay i suppose the upside is at least you found the van actually existed. It could have been much worse had you paid the entire £22k, took a 4 hour train journey, only to find on arrival, "van" and seller had vanished into thin air along with your money. There's been a few of those on ebay.

 

I'm afraid if really serious about wanting a van and looking to buy, then you've got to be prepared to travel. When i was looking around i was traveling hundreds of miles and the day i spotted the one i eventually bought, had previously returned from viewing one in Folkstone...a round trip of 500ml.

 

It's a harsh lesson but you know now not to part with a penny until after actually viewing. Photographs often look amazingly wonderful!

 

 

 

[mikebeaches]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. And I agree, it was pretty harsh on the part of the dealer not to provide a lift back to the railway station.

 

Hope you'll have better luck finding a new van.

[Don636]

Losing £1,000 is always going to be hard to swallow so a hard lesson. I reckon there was £1,000 profit to them as, judging by the appalling way you were treated, I wouldn’t be too sure that any service work was actually carried out and it ‘s highly likely the van would have had all sorts of undeclared problems so you are probably better off without it.

Not quite sure why you would need to pay £1,000 to secure it - what is the chance that it is going to be sold to someone else before you got there? Surely the worst that would happen is that you would waste a train fare rather than £1,000 if someone beat you to it. I have no idea about the motor home secondhand market and wonder if they are in such short supply that you need to move quickly to snap them up. If so it sounds good for my trade in value.

[trialsrider]

Don636 - 2019-08-11 11:12 PM

 

Losing £1,000 is always going to be hard to swallow so a hard lesson. I reckon there was £1,000 profit to them as, judging by the appalling way you were treated, I wouldn’t be too sure that any service work was actually carried out and it ‘s highly likely the van would have had all sorts of undeclared problems so you are probably better off without it.

Not quite sure why you would need to pay £1,000 to secure it - what is the chance that it is going to be sold to someone else before you got there? Surely the worst that would happen is that you would waste a train fare rather than £1,000 if someone beat you to it. I have no idea about the motor home secondhand market and wonder if they are in such short supply that you need to move quickly to snap them up. If so it sounds good for my trade in value.

 

The reason I put a deposit on it to secure the price and the van was for a few reasons. Firstly I had phoned up a few weeks before and the owner wouldn't budge on the price. He had then agreed to drop the price on a subsequent phone call a few weeks later. If the van had been in good condition I would have been more than happy to pay this price.

 

Secondly I am in a very unfortunate position that very few vans fit my needs. I am 6ft 5 so can't sleep transversely in any PVC. They all have transverse beds. Beds in vans which are 200cm long are like hen's teeth. We also need 3 seat belts and a loo. Finally 6metres maximum in length. This van even had a few cm spare to hang my feet over the edge. It fitted our every need.

 

Just try and find a PVC with a 200cm plus bed.in the £22000 price range The La Strada regent and Concorde compact are probably the only ones with their drop down bed. They are exceptionally rare and that is why I have usually had vans converted for me which brings its own hassles and nightmares. This van fitted the bill hence I wanted to move quickly.

 

Anyway, lesson learnt. No more deposits till face to face viewing.

[peterjl]

Hi

 

I can sympathise.

 

I have paid up front before. I paid £1500 for a racing dinghy a few years back just based on photos. I knew it was a risk but it was the spec I wanted and had been looking for a while. For me it worked. It was as portrayed and is still going strong.

 

I think you were unlucky but also the seller was clearly not reliable if he could not run you back to the station. Mean mindedness.

 

Good luck in finding a Moho.

 

Peter

[aandy]

"what is the chance that it is going to be sold to someone else before you got there?"

 

 

Slim, but it happens. A few years ago I drove to Southampton, a round trip of 250 miles, to look at a van only to find that the sale was being concluded as I arrived. I then saw another at a dealer in Derby, 200 miles away. I 'phoned before travelling, to make sure it was still available, and without prompting they held it for a couple of days until I had a chance to view it.

 

A £1,000 non refundable deposit does seem a bit much and not really the mark of a good dealer, but when it seems nobody is responsible for anything and somebody else is always to blame when things don't work out, I have to say that I find the OP's attitude refreshing. I hope that doesn't sound patronising, but I'd have given him a lift for that alone.

[Wirehaired]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/17811434.couple-distraught-falling-victim-5-500-ebay-motorhome-scam/ This should be a valuable lesson.

[Sydney1]

To answer your specific question. Yes, very unreasonable.

 

They should have appreciated your view that the vehicle was clearly not as you expected (hence taking the commercial loss) so that you'd lost out emotionally and time wise as well, done the decent thing and dropped you back.

 

Best of luck and good luck with finding a replacement.

[StuartO]

I have some sympathy with the OP and especially if it was only a short local trip back to the rail station, it would have been a nice thing to offer. But the return journey wasn't ever part of the deal was it, so you shouldn't really grumble - or publicise your disappointment on a forum? Good that you haven't tried to name and shame, pity you gave clues by naming the town.

 

On a separate tack, you were buying a cheap motorhome, a neat conversion but based on an old, indeed by van standards a very old van. Vans of this era were not well protected against corrosion and were expected to be worn out and scrapped within six or eight years, rather like cars used to be before manufacturers were made to paint them properly. Very few vans will be still on the road with bodywork in good conditon at this age so the chances are that the converter of the MH you were thinking of buying was trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. There are far better ways of spending £20,000 to buy a comfortable and reasonably well-kept and durable motorhome so I suggest you think again.

 

So either look for a PVC converted from new (which might have been better looked after) or if you have the storage space etc, one of the older, better-built A Class motorhomes which are on the market these days - it will be under-powered and probably a bit thirsty but the chassis and body may still be OK.

[laimeduck]

Gareth - you were badly treated, but as with another poster I admire your integrity in admitting your error.

It takes a big man to admit they screwed up and were wrong - something many on here do not seem to understand.

Jeremy

[Derek Uzzell]

Presumably Gareth asked the dealership to give him a lift back to Stafford railway station and his request was refused? If that’s what happened, was a reason for the refusal given?

[trialsrider]

StuartO - 2019-08-13 10:49 AM

 

I have some sympathy with the OP and especially if it was only a short local trip back to the rail station, it would have been a nice thing to offer. But the return journey wasn't ever part of the deal was it, so you shouldn't really grumble - or publicise your disappointment on a forum? Good that you haven't tried to name and shame, pity you gave clues by naming the town.

 

On a separate tack, you were buying a cheap motorhome, a neat conversion but based on an old, indeed by van standards a very old van. Vans of this era were not well protected against corrosion and were expected to be worn out and scrapped within six or eight years, rather like cars used to be before manufacturers were made to paint them properly. Very few vans will be still on the road with bodywork in good conditon at this age so the chances are that the converter of the MH you were thinking of buying was trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. There are far better ways of spending £20,000 to buy a comfortable and reasonably well-kept and durable motorhome so I suggest you think again.

 

So either look for a PVC converted from new (which might have been better looked after) or if you have the storage space etc, one of the older, better-built A Class motorhomes which are on the market these days - it will be under-powered and probably a bit thirsty but the chassis and body may still be OK.

 

I must disagree with you on several points. Firstly you don't even know the age of the van I was looking at or even the make so how can you comment on the corrosion resistance etc. It was actually an x250 pvc and their corrosion resistance is generally excellent. I recently sold a 2007 x250.on a similar mileage and it was mint on every panel and underneath. This van in question was many years newer.

 

£22000 is not a 'cheap' motorhome to many of us and certainly not me. Price and cost is a relative and subjective phenomenon and you should be more aware of this. We all cut our cloth accordingly.

 

Finally, why not publicise my disappointment on a forum ? My expectation of manners and public decency is to give someone a lift back. Especially if you have given them a lift to a venue and they have no knowledge of the local area or an easy means of getting back to where they came from. It's not how I operate !!!

[StuartO]

I still think there are better ways to spend money than on a recently converted PVC and that £22,000 will only buy a relatively cheap motorhome and conversions of PVCs by small players using vans which have already done some work don't hold their value well either. But if you don't value my suggestions, you go ahead and buy what you like.

 

Like everyone else I think it would have been nice (and a better business decision) for the dealer to drop you back off at the station after you pulled out but I would have had more respect for your high moral tone if you hadn't named the town in which the dealer was based. This was unnecessary detail if you were genuinely just having your grumble without simultaneously taking a swipe at the dealer.

[trialsrider]

StuartO - 2019-08-13 5:26 PM

 

I still think there are better ways to spend money than on a recently converted PVC and that £22,000 will only buy a relatively cheap motorhome and conversions of PVCs by small players using vans which have already done some work don't hold their value well either. But if you don't value my suggestions, you go ahead and buy what you like.

 

Like everyone else I think it would have been nice (and a better business decision) for the dealer to drop you back off at the station after you pulled out but I would have had more respect for your high moral tone if you hadn't named the town in which the dealer was based. This was unnecessary detail if you were genuinely just having your grumble without simultaneously taking a swipe at the dealer.

 

Stuart. You are completely entitled to your opinion. Thank you ever so much for posting your valuable comments.

[stevec176]

Second that.