soulman Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Hi all, Is there such a thing as an outdoor trickle charger please. I have brought a solar panel but it does not produce enough charge to keep my battery topped up to start. I start camper once a week. The only thing running is the car alarm. Looking for a trickle charger I can plug into an outside socket and onto the battery that is weatherproof and has a decent plug lead on it. Or is there another way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 What size panel do you have, and how is it connected. I've been using solar to top up batteries for decades and apart from quite small panels in the depths of winter have had no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 soulman - 2020-05-09 12:50 PM Hi all, Is there such a thing as an outdoor trickle charger please..... Looking for a trickle charger I can plug into an outside socket and onto the battery that is weatherproof and has a decent plug lead on it. Or is there another way ? Making mains electrical connections (or even 12 v connections) outdoors is not safe practice. Use an extension lead to connect to the outdoor socket and then run the extension lead to the inside of the MH where the battery is, then connect the mains charger to the battery and to the mains extension, in that order. Use a modern, automatic charger which selects the appropriate charging voltage automatically and on completion of the charge, turns itself down to a safe trickle voltage to maintai the full charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Soulman Waterproof’ chargers for 12V batteries are marketed (intended primarily for marine applications) but these are far from cheap and - in your case - it is to be anticipated that you would probably still need to use a mains-power extension cable between the “outside socket” and the charger. I assume that the starter-battery of your 1990 Fiat Ducato is located under the bonnet, so could you not lead an extension cable from the outside socket into the motorome’s engine compartment and connect that cable to an ordinary battery-charger that is itself connected to the battery. Provided that rainwater cannot pour on to the charger and/or connections (if that seeems likely, use something waterproof to cover thecharger, battery and connections) you really should not need a ‘special’ charger and you ought to be able to keep the bonnet shut once everything has been connected up. Alternatively, when the weather looks settled, rather than start the motor weekly (which - unless you run the motor for a long period of time - will probably deplete the starter-battery’s charge-state rather than improve it) just connect a reasonably powerful charger to the starter-battery every week or so and charge the battery for several hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Didn't your Murvi come with a built-in battery charger that charges the starter battery as well as the habitation battery? If not, have you compared the cost of a suitable stand-alone charger, with that of installing a new on-board charger that provides both functions. It would then be available to charge wherever you have a 230V supply. If so, and you can get 230V power to the van for a stand-alone charger, why not simply plug the van into 230V power, and let the on-board charger do its stuff? Apologies if I've missed something! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bounty hunter Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 I purchased an Ultimate Speed battery charger, from Lidl I think, to charge my car battery while we were away in Spain for 3 months. . I tried it for a couple of weeks while we were travelling in UK but to be honest it took me 18 months to pluck up the courage to leave it connected for 3 1/2 months. Charger is in the lounge inside the house and I fed the cable through the hole in the outside wall which brings the TV cable inside. There is sufficient space between the bonnet and the windscreen to feed the cable and crocodile clips into the battery on our Renault Captur. When we returned from Spain the battery was fully charged, the opposite from usual when we are away so long, and charger was cool, still connected and I was very relieved John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocsid Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 For the intended purpose here, unattended use, the Auto Xs smart chargers marketed by both Lidl & Aldi have one critical failing, they don't reset if the mains power is lost. So if there is a mains power loss, then the charger ends up as an additional parasitic drain on the battery, albeit a small one but importantly the charger ceases performing the very function it was fitted to achieve, stop the battery being drained too low. I have two of these and a CTEK MXS 5, the latter has that post power cut resetting ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 soulman - 2020-05-09 12:50 PM Hi all, Is there such a thing as an outdoor trickle charger please. I have brought a solar panel but it does not produce enough charge to keep my battery topped up to start. I start camper once a week. The only thing running is the car alarm. Looking for a trickle charger I can plug into an outside socket and onto the battery that is weatherproof and has a decent plug lead on it. Or is there another way ? When I first read your post my first thought was that if your battery will not last more than a week without requiring a recharge then the battery needs replacing. If on the other hand you are starting your van once a week and not taking it for a run to replace the charge you used up starting the van then I’d have expected the van battery to last at least a few weeks before needing to be recharged. So firstly, before you locate a charger solution are you comfortable that your starter battery is up to snuff? Re charger, I’d concur with the other responses, give the battery a charge once every four weeks with a conventional charger connected to the battery in dry weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 What I'm wondering is how small the solar panel must be to not keep up with standby drain? On most days mine gets up to only around 20W when not in use. These days thats already around 7am and from then on it's in float. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve H Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 I think soulman's easiest solution would be to simply plug the vehicle in to his exterior power point as if on hook up on a campsite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 If the Solar or EHU vans charger is not transferring charge to the engine battery as some don't heres a simple cheap solution that I use http://www.motts.org/BRIDGING%20FUSE.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocsid Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 witzend - 2020-05-09 11:22 PM If the Solar or EHU vans charger is not transferring charge to the engine battery as some don't heres a simple cheap solution that I use http://www.motts.org/BRIDGING%20FUSE.htm I have a feeling "Clive's" scheme here is for cases where the two batteries are built with very similar technologies. However, as the specific duty asked of the starter and leisure battery are way different to each other, the van builder could well chose to use differing types of battery, each optimised for its selected application? With that comes differing natural resting voltages, which once cross connected are forced to balance out. As I said, I feel that is not going to be an ideal solution, unless both batteries are indeed of the same technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 30 years ago, when Soulman’s 1990-vintage petrol-engined Fiat Ducato-based MURVI was born, UK-built motorhomes tended to mirror caravan practice regarding the habitation electrics. It was quite common for the motorhome to have no leisure-battery as standard, with a 13.8V power-supply-unit (PSU) providing continuous 12V power when the vehicle was connnected to an electrical hook-up (EHU). Even when a leisure-battery and split-charging system was fitted, it was still the norm for the charger (often made by a UK company called “Zig”) to only have a 13.8V capability and for starter-battery charging via EHU to NOT be provided. Reading Soulmate’s previous postings, evidently he has owned the MURVI for about 23 years and, in 2015, the motorhome was being garaged and trickle-charged. (Presumably it was the starter-battery that was being trickle-charged.) A couple of weeks ago Soulman asked about where to obtain "a good quality, waterproof, breathable cover” https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/breathable-cover-for-camper/55022/ which suggests that the MURVI is no longer garaged. I don’t know if Soulman has in mind to charge the starter-battery with a cover fitted to the motorhome and, consequently, is thinking of having a ‘fully weatherproof’ battery-charger doing this while the charger is fully exposed to the elements. If that’s the case, then forget it it! Even if a waterproof charger were purchased, there would still be a need to connect that charger to the motorhome’s starter-battery (under the motorhome’s bonnet beneath the cover) and to the (presumably weatherproof) outside 230V socket-outlet, and the chances are minimal that the charger’s own cabling would be sufficiently long to do this. This February 2020 thread discussed a similar requirement (though the motorhome being discussed there is later and its electrical system different) https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Camper-vanVehicle-battery-charger/54451/ Logically, if the MURVI is to be fitted with a cover, whatever is done to keep the starter-battery charged should allow the cover to be left in place. Connecting the starter-battery to the leisure-battery (using a ‘bridging-fuse’ or a device like Van Bitz’s "Battery-Master”) would allow the MURVi’s onboard charger (I’m assuming it must have one!) to charge both batteries when the vehicle is connected to the outside 230v socket-outlet. How difficult it would be to connect the two batteries together would depend on where they are in the MURVI and Soulman’s DIY skills - but this would definitely be the best approach. If a stand-alone additional battery-charger were to be used, the charger would need to placed inside the motorhome and its cable to the starter-battery would need to be led into the MURVI’s engine compartment (which might not be easy). If the MURVI has a 230V socket-outlet in the habitation area, the stand-alone charger could be powered from that outet when the vehicle was connected to the outside 230v socket-outlet. As has been mentioned above, questions need to be asked about why Soulman’s solar panel cannot maintain the starter-battery’s charge, and why the MURVI seemingly needs to be started and run weekly to put charge back into the starter-battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Ocsid - 2020-05-10 7:05 AM witzend - 2020-05-09 11:22 PM If the Solar or EHU vans charger is not transferring charge to the engine battery as some don't heres a simple cheap solution that I use http://www.motts.org/BRIDGING%20FUSE.htm I have a feeling "Clive's" scheme here is for cases where the two batteries are built with very similar technologies. No I've on both vans had Gel hab Batterys an Lead acid starter battery and works fine with solar and EHU it just transfers a charge current between the 2 locations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 For years I used a trickle/ maintenance charger from Halfords 6/12 v They are around £25.00 now. I used it in my F2 Stock car and during the winter it came in useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 witzend - 2020-05-10 10:32 AM Ocsid - 2020-05-10 7:05 AM witzend - 2020-05-09 11:22 PM If the Solar or EHU vans charger is not transferring charge to the engine battery as some don't heres a simple cheap solution that I use http://www.motts.org/BRIDGING%20FUSE.htm I have a feeling "Clive's" scheme here is for cases where the two batteries are built with very similar technologies. No I've on both vans had Gel hab Batterys an Lead acid starter battery and works fine with solar and EHU it just transfers a charge current between the 2 locations It needs to be recognised that Clive-Mott-Gotobed is an inveterate DIYer and, on his priority list, economy tends to come well above sophistication. (A prime example of this was his “PONGO” alternative to a SOG toilet-cassette ventilation system as shown here http://www.motts.org/Pongo.htm ) When Clive came up with the bridging-fuse idea he owned a UK-built motorcaravan that had no means of charging its starter-battery via the vehicle’s onboard charger. At that time all UK-built motorhomes had a common-or-garden wet-acid leisure-battery and the starter-battery was also wet-acid type. The bridging-fuse ploy parallel-connects the starter-battery to the leisure-battery and (as every motorhome owner should be aware), when parallel-connecting 12V batteries, the battery ‘type’ should be the same. But as that was always the case with UK-built motorhomes in those days, it likely never occurred to Clive to mention the possibility of the batteries being different types. If a motorhome’s leisure-battery is gel or AGM type and the vehicle’s onboard charger has been set to provide a specific gel or AGM charging regimen, if the bridging-fuse method is used to connect a wet-acid starter-battery to the leisure-battery, the wet-acid battery will be subjected to the same charging regimen as the gel or AGM leisure-battery. Whether this will actually cause harm if charging is continuing long term is anybody’s guess, but the possibility should not be overlooked. As the bridging-fuse idea involves a cable being connected between the leisure-battery and starter-battery, plus the requirement for the motorhome owner to insert or remove the fuse as necessary, surely it would be preferable to opt for a ‘cleverer’ arrangement that should be no harder to install, is not sensitive to differing battery types and does not demand subsequent action from the motorhome owner? For example https://www.votronic.de/index.php/en/products/peripheral-units/cut-off-relays https://www.roadpro.co.uk/product/02e02-battery-maintainers/votronic-battery-master-c8451/C8451 Unless Soulman’s MURVI’s original electrical specification has been altered during its 30-year life, its stater-battery and leisure-battery will be ordinary wet-acid type and there would be no potential conflict if the bridging-fuse ploy were used. But about £30 would still be better spent installing the Votronic product. (What this thread needs to progress further is more feedback from Soulman.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 Hi Colin, Thanks for your input. it's a Gunson solar panel just a bit bigger than A4 paper sheet. The reason I am after a trickle charger is we have moved house and the van is not in a garage anymore so investing in a cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 Hi Brian, I will try that. Although I have owned the camper for years I never knew the hook up charged the car battery. Thanks for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 Hi Derek and everyone else who has given advice. A big thank you to you all. In all the years I have owed the Murvi I was not aware that the hookup would charge the starter battery Doh!!. Still that's what makes this forum so good. This is the first thing I will try. I do know that the habitation battery and hook up was fitted at a later date but before I owned the Murvi. I will buy a plug fitment to enable my hook up lead to be plugged into the outdoor socket and see if this works. If not then I think the trickle charger placed inside the unit and run into the engine compartment will be the next thing. After that then I will get a competent person at my local garage (not me ha ha ) to advise and install one of the more involved suggestions Brilliant forum and input. THANK YOU ALL ONCE AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP. Keep Safe all Soulman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 soulman - 2020-05-12 10:25 AM Hi Brian, I will try that. Although I have owned the camper for years I never knew the hook up charged the car battery. Thanks for your input. Steady!! :-D I only asked if it does, I didn't say it does. Needs checking to be sure. I assume you have the charger make and model, and could contact Murvi to be sure its all wired in? If it should charge but doesn't, it's possible a fuse has blown on that circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted May 13, 2020 Author Share Posted May 13, 2020 Yep will check it all out properly. Thanks for your advice. Regards Soulman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 The ultimate speed Lidl chargers aren't really suitable for long term unattended charging because if there is a power cut they come back on in standby mode. I leave an Optimate 2 on our car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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