motorhomer14 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Hi all, first newbie to the forum so thanks for letting me join. I have a new Adria Twin supreme SGX 140 BHP manual which I will be picking up in a few weeks. I intend fitting Lithium batteries and so need to know if this model has a DC-DC converter already fitted. Has anyone got his model or work on the Adria Twin models and can advice on what is fitted. I know the AUTO model has it fitted but its not showing if the MANUAL one does. I have been trying to contact Adria but still waiting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Stephen. This recent Ducato ‘van’ review https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/fiat/ducato/2011-review/ included the following statement An Eco Pack also will be fitted as standard from September 2019, which as well as adding stop-start technology to the 120hp and 140hp engines (the 160hp and 180hp models already feature this as standard) includes an intelligent alternator and electronically controlled fuel pump to reduce fuel consumption. I’m assuming that you are aware that the implication of this technology is that, when the vehicle is a motorhome with a leisure-battery, the ‘intelligent alternator’ will fail to charge the leisure-battery adequately when the motorhome is being driven unless something is done to permit this to happen - and the technical approach normally chosen is to fit a battery-to-battery charger (B2B). It seems probable that, as Adria were/are fitting a B2B to their motorhome models that have automatic transmission, Adria would be doing the same with manual transmission models that now have the Eco Pack as standard. Have you asked the vendor about this? I notice that the price-list at the end of the 2020 Adria motorhome brochure mentioned the Eco Pack and a “DC converter” (ie. a B2B) in relation to the 160bhp amd 180bhp motors, so the 2021 price-list (which an Adria dealer should have access to) MIGHT provide similar information for the other powerplants. There has been a good deal of discussion about lithium batteries on this and other motorhome forums. Some light reading here https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=lithium+batteries&author=&days=&Submit=Search http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/lithium-batteries.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorhomer14 Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 Hi Derek, thank you for the links this will be great to read over. I am aware of the smart alternators which is why I need to DC-DC converter (B2B) I did not know they had the stop/start fitted so this will be new. The only spec i can find so far is that the MANUAL vehicle may not have the B2B fitted which as you say is strange. I have attached a venders specifications sheet. Still waiting on my Vendor to get back to me on this was unable to attached pic of the document, but it says the following DC/DC converter MANDATORY for 140 BHP AUTO, 160 BHP & 180 BHP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul2 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Hi My Sunliving (built by Adria) is 160 auto it has a Schaudt booster WA121525 fitted. Adria may use this on all their twin where a B2B is required. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorhomer14 Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 Cheers Paul, I will have a look over the van when i get it to see if this is fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 The Schaudt WA 121525 “Booster” seems to be a popular choice for motorhome manufacturers when the base-vehicle has a smart alternator (and for retro-fitting by DIYers). Elddis refer to the Booster in Section 8.2 of their 2021 Autoquest manual https://elddis.co.uk/uploads/handbooks/2021/Autoquest%20MH%202021_APPROVED.pdf It should be stating the obvious, but even if Adria are now fitting a B2B/booster (whatever!) to all their Fiat Ducato-based models irrespective of the model’s powerplant bhp and transmission type, it needs to be asked whether or not the specification of these motorhomes is ‘lithium ready’. Since the 2019 model-year the standard specification of the more upmarket Rapido motorhomes has included pre-wiring for one or a pair of SUPER B lithium leisure-batteries, whereas the cheaper models’ standard specification included a single wet-acid deep-cycle leisure-battery with a 2nd battery of that type as an option. I don’t know what Rapido’s stance would be if a lithium leisure-battery were retro-fitted to one of the cheaper models and there were consequential problems within the Rapido’s warranty period, but it would be sensible to keep the potential ‘warranty effect’ in mind when making any sort of significant changes to the original specification of a brand-new motorhome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorhomer14 Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 Agree with you about getting setting correct and warranty issues. If I know the exact setup then there maybe a setting to change to Lithium. All Victron controllers I have installed have been easy to change via Bluetooth. To make things more confusing from what i have read so far the van maybe fitted with a Schaudt Electroblock EBL 211 which only has Lead-Gel or AGM settings, so this may also be an issue when charging on 240v As soon as i get the van i will have a look and update this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 I'm pretty sure they've been standard on all Adria MHs for a few years. I went digging through them at a show a few years back and a schaudt booster was universally installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 motorhomer14 - 2021-04-01 2:50 PM ...To make things more confusing from what i have read so far the van maybe fitted with a Schaudt Electroblock EBL 211 which only has Lead-Gel or AGM settings, so this may also be an issue when charging on 240v... This February 2020 MHFun forum discussion may be of interest. https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/lithium-battery-ebl-advice-please.212955/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorhomer14 Posted April 26, 2021 Author Share Posted April 26, 2021 Hi all, I finally have my Adria Twin, I have had a poke around and it looks like it does not have a B2B fitted. Also it has an EBL-211 distribution and charger fitted which only has AGM/GEL selection. So fitting LifePo4 will be a bit more challenging. Attached is the schematic of the EDL-211. This unit charges the vehicle battery and controls the fridge source supply. So I was thinking couple of mods I could do to properly fit LifePo4 batteries. First to so that I can keep the current EDL-211 charging the vehicle battery , fridge control and 12v distribution I thought putting a diode on the leisure battery feed to the EDL-211 will allow 12v distribution but will stop any charge voltage back to the LifePo4 batteries. Then I would install a separate Lithium dedicated charger. For B2B I would install this between the vehicle battery and LifePo4 batter and then have a shunt monitor on the negative. For solar I have a Victron set for Lithium direct connection to the battery. My Block diagram is attached. Only issue I can see if with negatives. B2B normally has + and - in/out but to use the EDL-211 as distribution I would need to connect the negative (GND's) all together. If this is no good, then the easy option will be to disconnect the mains to the EDL-211 and use only as a distribution unit, then install B2B between vehicle battery and EDL-211 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zofo58 Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 I am in a similar process with my 2017 Adria Twin SLT 600. I have fitted a Schaudt Booster by connecting the + from the starter battery by removing inputs 3 and 4 from the EBL 211 (these are connected to the starter battery) and a negative directly from the starter battery. I then connected the + outputs from the booster to inputs 3 and 4 and the negative to the battery. I got this advice from Schaudt. I fitted a Votronic MPPT which has a connection directly to the EBL. I fitted a Victron battery protect and a smart shunt also. The shunt is good for checking the system on my phone. I hope the battery protect will do as it says. I now have ready to fit a Victron BMS 12/200 and a IP22 12/30 charger ready to install before I purchase a Victron 200AH lithium. I’ve only got away once to try the B2B and it worked fine, the solar has been on for a year now and is working great. Finding space for all this equipment is a problem but I will be able to get rid of one of my lead acid leisure batteries and this will give me more space. It started out as a lockdown project that seems to be never ending, but I think I am nearly there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorhomer14 Posted April 27, 2021 Author Share Posted April 27, 2021 Hi zofo58 thanks for input. Schaudt Booster B2B sounds good, I was going to use renogy B2B but will now have a look at the one you fitted. From reading your setup, I see you have the Victron 240v charger to fit, I was thinking of going this route. How will you be removing the EBL from charging the Lithium? Will you be removing the 240v connection to the EB? This was one route I was thinking of doing. Only thing you would loose is the starter battery charging from the EBL but reading your setup you have I believe already lost this with the fitted B2B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zofo58 Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 There is a trickle charge on the Votronic MPPT that keep the starter battery topped up. The 230v cable is connected from a fuse board with trip switches via the three pin plug on top of the EBL, so I plan to unplug that and connect the IP22 to the trip switches. Another idea I have is to get an electrician to wire up a double socket with USB slots to the EHU supply and locate it under the table. I use the van all year round and park it outside my house, so I use a small storage heater and an Optimate 6 trickle charger for the starter battery for the cold winter nights. Last winter I use my EHU cable with a double socket in through the side window but my plan would be to connect up the IP22 when on site and plug in the others when needed over the winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorhomer14 Posted April 27, 2021 Author Share Posted April 27, 2021 sounds good, I was thinking or removing the supply to the EBL but then I thought using it to trickle charge the starter battery, unfortunately this makes it more complicated hence the idea of a diode fitted between EBL and leisure battery. I am now rethinking this and putting in a small separate charger for starter battery removing supply to EBL so this just becomes a 12v distribution unit. I have a victorn solar charger which does not have separate starter charging. Depending on the solar I buy I might end up with the dealers solar panel as a spare which could then be used for starter battery. Good idea about the 240v socket under table. I was also going to install a 12v outlet with USB outlets taken from the leisure battery in this location. So far my system is still in design stage as I have only just got the van, roof bars are on order then solar to fit first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zofo58 Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 This project has been a steep learning curve for me but it is good to get a setup which suits my needs and to have some knowledge of the electrical working of the van. Some times it is like looking into a bowl of spaghetti when I look under the seat, but it has kept me reasonable sane over the winter. Best of luck with the build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoNico Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 nobody ever think about REDARC BOOSTER? It seems quite good and very popular on many vehicle already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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