Old Blue Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Hi to everyone this is my first post so if I do something wrong be kind and tell me. We have just acquired a 2019 Hymer 314 and would like to raise the suspension height by 40mm front and rear !!! Simply to improve how it looks. Has anyone ever done this ? Is it even possible ? Regards Blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Hi Blue and welcome! First a question, what chassis is your Hymer built on? Mercedes or Fiat or ??? The rear will normally be quite easy to raise to with auxiliary air suspension, the front nowhere near as easy! Let us know your chassis make and I'm sure suggestions will be forthcoming. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Blue Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 Beg your pardon Sir, I could see, quite clearly [in my minds eye] the words "Fiat Ducato" and assumed that the collective would also :$ I thank you for your intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Thanks for the clarification. I actually read the '314' and thought this was a Mercedes designation so good job you replied! You can get a full four wheel air suspension system supplied and fitted to an X250 or X290 Ducato for the princely sum of £6,795 https://www.rhinoinstalls.co.uk/VB-Full-Air%20Suspension-4C-ALKO-Fiat-Ducato-Citroen-Relay-Peugeot-Boxer-X250-X290 but whether this will raise the height by 40 mm I do not know. Maybe time for a call to one of the VB suppliers (there are more then just Rhino listed above). Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Have you considered the impact of that additional height on vehicle stability, esp. on bends, roundabouts, etc? You will have raised the centre of gravity of the van, so it will inevitably be more prone to roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Blue Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 Thanks for the comment regarding stability, however I imagine that any loss of stability created by such a small height increase would be compensated by the stiffening that the airbags would create. ("hopefully create") I am hopeful also that I can increase height at the front end using spacers and thereby avoiding the cost 8-) expensive air bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varonda Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Wouldn't altering the suspension affect any warranty on the vehicle and no doubt the insurance people would probably like to know about any modifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Old Blue - 2020-10-25 3:37 PM Hi to everyone this is my first post so if I do something wrong be kind and tell me. We have just acquired a 2019 Hymer 314 and would like to raise the suspension height by 40mm front and rear !!! Simply to improve how it looks. Has anyone ever done this ? Is it even possible ? Regards Blue. I think what you own is a Hymer VAN 314 an example of which is shown in the photo attached below. This model is a short (5.45m) ‘low profile’ design based (as you’ve said) on a Fiat Ducato chassis. You could (relatively cheaply) increase a Hymer Van 314’s rear ground clearance by 40mm by fitting air-bellows to the rear suspension, but adding ‘air’ to the front suspension to similarly increase the ride height there would be much more more complicated and expensive. These links may be of interest https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/articles/practical-advice/motorhome-advice-a-guide-to-motorhome-suspension-systems https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/472318-ducato-x250-front-springs.html There’s no doubt that raising both ends of a Van 314 would be POSSIBLE and fitting stronger coil springs to the front suspension could provide the extra height more cheaply than ‘air’. But (as varonda has warned) any of the modifications I’ve just mentioned would potentially invalidate the Fiat warranty. Dare I say this, but increasing the front and rear ride height of this vehicle by 40mm would not only impact negatively on the vehicle’s handling (as Brian Kirby has mentioned) but would likely result in a very odd looking motorhome. In fact, there were comments on this forum some 6 years ago about ‘high suspension’ Ducatos that looked really ugly due to the extra space beneath the wheel arches. Before you go any further with this idea I strongly suggest you get four jacks and lift your Hymer so that 40mm of extra ground clearance is gained at the front and the back and then decide how attractive this appears. And, if you still think the result looks an improvement over the standard ride height, a visit to Specsavers might be advisable.. ;-) ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Guaranteed to rock you to sleep at night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varonda Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Easiest option is to sell it and buy a van you like the looks of *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Blue Posted October 26, 2020 Author Share Posted October 26, 2020 Well I have been on a few motorcycle forums and always had sound advise mixed with plenty of mickey taking and am delighted that you have not disappointed me on my venture into the world of motorhomers. I found most of the posts useful and informative, I will take the specsavers comment etc. but point out that the suspension lift is all about making the motorhome "my own" and with that in mind I will also be wrapping said motorhome with a Matt Finish ! All of that will have to wait however as I am stuck in the south of France at the moment and the new camper is in South Wales waiting to be picked up once lockdown is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 You should be able to get an idea of the effect of increasing the front and rear ride-height from the photo attached below of a Ducato-based Westfalia 4x4 van. There was an article in MMM magazine reasonably recently about ‘wrapping’ a Hymer motorhome. Can’t say I found the result aesthetically pleasing (never mind the cost of the exercise) but one man’s meat ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Blue Posted October 26, 2020 Author Share Posted October 26, 2020 That I like the look of but we tend to drive into a city centre park up dine and spend the night in the van, once you get close to 6 meters you loose the ability to do that discreetly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Old Blue - 2020-10-26 6:37 PM I will also be wrapping said motorhome with a Matt Finish ! I’d be interested to know what colour wrap you’re considering. Our A Class is wrapped in grey which (for me at least) is a great improvement on run of the mill white and also is less visually jarring when parked up in the countryside. It has the added benefit that other drivers (so I’m told) think we’re a horse box so getting out of busy junctions etc is a doddle. Having said that, the picture of the Westfalia Derek posted goes to show how discreet and rugged a motorhome could look with the right livery – and 4WD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 BruceM - 2020-10-26 9:05 PM Old Blue - 2020-10-26 6:37 PM I will also be wrapping said motorhome with a Matt Finish ! I’d be interested to know what colour wrap you’re considering. Our A Class is wrapped in grey which (for me at least) is a great improvement on run of the mill white and also is less visually jarring when parked up in the countryside. It has the added benefit that other drivers (so I’m told) think we’re a horse box so getting out of busy junctions etc is a doddle. Having said that, the picture of the Westfalia Derek posted goes to show how discreet and rugged a motorhome could look with the right livery – and 4WD. We where at Southwold last week, due to soft ground just one row of vans on hardstanding next to 'hedge', it was very noticeable when walking across the field how all the other vans stood out, but our Golden White van blended in much better. Still noticeably there, but not jarring to the eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 The last obviously wrapped vehicle I’ve seen was in Nice a few years ago. It was a Chrysler 300C car that, from the noise it made, had the 5.7litre V8 motor. The ‘wrap’ was a very dark matt grey (near black) and all the windows were heavily tinted. It had a definite gangster-chic look about it that I thought would attract police attention, though it might have been owned by the Nice drug squad for all I know. Several colour schemes were available for Hymer Van 314 models. The cab and rear bodywork could have the same white colour or (seemingly more common) the rear bodywork was white and the cab a completely different colour, as in the photo attached to my 1st posting above. The wrapping thing isn’t really an issue, as Kenneth can choose exactly what finish suits him, but raising the Hymer’s ride-height by 40mm front and rear will be trickier. Having studied the Hymer Van 314’s specification more closely, I see that this model was built on a Fiat Ducato with Al-KO rear chassis. This means that - to raise the rear ride-height - just fitting stronger/additional rear springs, or an inexpensive ‘semi-air’ system with air-bellows, won’t be practicable as an AL-KO chassis’s springing is via torsion bars in a lateral axle tube. That doesn’t mean that a ‘semi-air’ system cannot be fitted to the rear axle of an AL-KO chassis, just that it’s going to cost significantly more. (circa £2000) https://www.rhinoinstalls.co.uk/VB-SemiAir-ALKO-Fiat-Ducato-Citroen-Relay-Peugeot-Boxer-2006-onwards-X250-X290 https://glide-rite.com/product/al-ko-semi-air-suspension/ That would still leave the front ride-height unchanged and this could be increased by fitting replacement stronger front coil springs and possibly Koni FSD struts to make the ride quality more comfortable. https://www.koniuk.co.uk/news/camper-dampers https://tinyurl.com/y3uzun8o (I’m guessing that fitting Koni FSD struts + stronger coil springs would cost close to £1000 when labour charges were taken into account.) The trouble with the replacement struts/springs approach is that the ride-height increase that resulted could not be adjusted - if it turned out to be 40mm that would be fine, but the increase might be more or less than 40mm. AL-KO offers the ”Comfort Suspension (ACS)” product (replacement front struts and springs) and the heavier duty version is said to increase a Ducato’s original front ride-height by 40mm. https://www.alko-tech.com/uk/al-ko-comfort-suspension-acs https://www.caravan-salon.com/cgi-bin/md_caravan/lib/pub/tt.cgi?oid=3636&lang=2&ticket=g_u_e_s_t This 2018 MHFun discussion includes comments about the Comfort Suspension (ACS) product, so may be of interest. https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/air-suspension.179971/ As Keithl has said earlier, a VB 4C full-air suspension system could be installed for around £7000 and one of the requirements it is marketed to satisfy is an increase in a vehicle’s ride-height. Speaking generally, motorcaravanners have their vehicle’s suspension altered to address an identified technical problem or technical requirement (sagging springs, grounding at vehicle’s rear, easier levelling when parked, etc.). But Kenneth wants to raise his motorhome's ground clearance “simply to improve how it looks” and I doubt anyone else has ever felt a need to do that, let alone with as small and light a model as a Hymer Van 314. Before going down the ‘full air’ route, it would be wise to check very carefully with the installer whether they would guarantee that the system would provide the 40mm ride-height increase without there being consequential negative effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Blue Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Once again huge thanks to Derek for all the info, as I said until I return from France which may be next week plus the problem of collection from the now locked down country of Wales I cannot progress this project. I will however post images of the finished project whenever that may be. In the meantime can anyone point me to previous posts regarding fitting of a tow-bar / motorcycle racks onto the AL-KO chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 The results of these two GOOGLE search may help https://tinyurl.com/y3a6acxv https://tinyurl.com/y5wgsoeh and the following links relate to AL-KO (Sawiko) towbars and AL-KO chassis options https://www.alko-tech.com/sites/default/files/uploaded_files/UK/Brochures/BrochurePDFs/499758_sawiko_brochure_2019_english_pr.pdf https://www.alko-tech.com/sites/default/files/uploaded_files/EN/499621_htk-reisemobile_12-2018_en.pdf This link is to a Hymer 2018 model-year price list https://www.motorhomes.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/HYMER_SPecs_2018_ENG-Prreisblatt.pdf and Page 8 shows that a towbar was an option for the Van 314 (£1470 and adding 63kg to the vehicle’s weight). A pull-out motorcycle rack was also listed (£2070) but was NOT available for the Van 314. The side-on photo attached below suggests that the rear end of a Van 314’s AL-KO chassis (green arrow) should be easily get-at-able, making fitting the appropriate Sawiko towbar straightforward. If you plan to carry something like a BMW K1600GT on a rack at the back (or any fairly heavy motorbike) you may well need to beef up the rear suspension and, if your 314 has 15”-diameter wheels, the tyres too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Old Blue As I read further of your interests and additions to a perfectly standard and normal vehicle you seem convinced to complicate the rideability even more. Presumably at some time you or your family may need to sell what is now becoming a multitude of variants that may cause any potential buyer horror at the thought. Remember 'dear old blue' that selling what one owns is equally as important as having visions of grandiose look-ability. Mr Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 A Al-Ko 4x or VB 4c Air Suspension does NOT alter the ride height on a Al-ko chassis. And is not allowed to do so. Only at low speed and park position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 As you rightly say, AL-KO’s “Air Premium X4” system only permits alteration of the pre-set ride height (eg. to gain more ground clearance) up to a speed of 25km/h (15.5mph). https://www.alko-tech.com/uk/air-premium-x4 The webpage describing VB’s “Full-Air 4C” system says "While driving, the vehicle will constantly remain at the ride height set by VB-Airsuspension during installation." https://www.vbairsuspension.com/en/page/solutions/fullairsuspension.html If Kenneth opted for the Full-Air 4C system, I’ve no idea if an installer would be prepared to set the system up so that the Hymer would have a 40mm higher ride-height than standard when being driven, or even if this would be technically practicable. (If Kenneth just wanted a static ‘40mm higher’ look, either of the AL-KO or VB full-air systems could achieve that. For a more ‘pimp my ride’ approach, why not a set of 18” wheels (the red ones would be fun) https://www.wheelbasealloys.com/alloy-wheels/fiat/ducato/3rd-gen/18-inch shod with this tyre https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/Tyres/Continental/VanContact-Camper/255-55-R18CP-120R-10PR/R-341810 Not sure if the 255 width would present clearance problems in the wheel arches, but the visual effect should be quite striking and, if Kenneth’s Van 314 currently has 15”-diameter wheels, there’d be a small increase in ride-height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 good afternoon, When you increase the ride height on vb suspension you are setting it to off road mode which is extremly firm, above 5 miles an hour this automatically reverts to normal ride height Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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