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Guest Pol Emique

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Guest Pol Emique
American RV's must surely feel more at home in the U.S.A. It's cruel to import them to europe where they have to negotiate small roads with bends. How many roads are there anyway in the U.K. where the cruise control can be used? Like stretch limos, they're also pretty tacky inside. outsize SUV's - monster sized RV's - same combat.
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Hey what is all this anti-RV theme coming into the forum? I believe it's all purely a matter of personal choice after all if you are saying RVs are too big the same could be said of most motorhomes when compared to the tiny Rascal based models, or on the otherhand it could be said that they are in fact too small!! As for where can you use cruise control why is it that most cars are now fitted with same? There are thousands of roads suitable and it can be effectively used to keep to speed limits in built up areas!! As regards negotiating small roads and bends most campsites are near to bus/coach routes these vehicles are often even longer than an RV is it cruel to even make such a vehicle let alone import one? As regards being tacky inside again it's a matter of choice but I can think of many other motorhomes of which the same could be said! I have owned and used regularly American RV's up to 30' long for many years in both this country and Europe never had a problem getting on sites and have enjoyed the freedom and comfort of these vehicles they are truely self contained, fully independant and robust! Do I detect an anti USA theme to your post POL???
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Guest Pol Emique
Anti USA? Certainly not, but RV's (and SUV's)were initially developed for the U.S. market. Driving a 30ft plus vehicle in europe means going from one campsite to another by sticking to the motorways. It's is an odd hobby to say the least. But my main observation is that to import and use 30ft + RV's in europe is basically antisocial.
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Hey Pol you don't honestly believe that do you? I used run Juggernauts to Itay, Spain,Portugal and Germany for the last 20 plus years and I can tell you that most of the time my drivers and I used "old roads" we had to use motorways to avoid some towns with weight limits, we found these roads to be prefered at times to motorways no problems negotiating them atall and some excellent Routier stops enroute!! Also as a point of interest the "Convoi Exceptionale" routes through France use all old roads! I'm sorry but cannot fathom your reasoning that importing and using an RV is anitsocial???? To whom I must ask? Pat
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Guest Pol Emique
Hey Pat - Lorries use the 'old roads' to avoid motorway tolls - period! 'Convoi Exceptionale's' are not allowed on French motorways that's why they don't use them. As for U.S. RV's I consider them to be antisocial because they consume huge amounts of petrol and take up too much road space. I put SUV's in the same bag. Of course, HGV's present the same problem. They thunder around europe, polluting the air and wearing out the road surfaces,transporting mainly perishable foodstuffs from one country to another. Out of season,tasteless, underripe tomatoes, for instance. Thousands of poorly paid Morrocans are employed in the stifingly hot greenhouses of Andalucia to satisfy the culinary whims of northern consumers who have been transformed into ignorant zombies by the supermarket chains. Nobody wins, the lorry drivers risk their lives for low wages, the air is polluted, the agricultural workers are exploited and the consumers are fed, bland, chemically treated foodstuffs. I could go on, having researched the subject. Oh, yes, there are winners - the few very rich families who control most of the european supermarket chains.(Sainsbury, Leclerc etc)To avoid the scandalous waste of ressources that this senseless shipping around of foodstuffs involves, we should all consume local, in season products wherever possible. This more responsable attitude to life doesn't apply just to foodstuffs - buying european motorhomes adapted for european useage, rather than vehicles that have been conceived for an entirely different market,half way across the world is logical - and more ecologic.
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Pol Your theories of food transportation and consumption are just that; theories. However well meant they are. Your diatribe on motorhomes is, at best, dictatorial and, at worst, moving towards fascism. In my opinion it is utter rubbish but I do recognise that not everyone may share that view, something that you point doesn't seem to acknowledge. As Pat says, with buses and lorries exceeding RV diamensions, and many of them serving their own domestic market, an infinitiely small number of RV's would pose no problem whatsoever. What about the many RV's that are the same size, or smaller, that european motorhomes. Are you out to ban them because of their "tacky insides"? Have you actually seen inside an RV built in the last 10 years or so?. I certainly have seen many and I cannot recall any "tackiness". In fact, in the same period, I have seen more european vans with disgusting coloured and patterned interiors. But, each to his own. That's how we used to live here, until the "taste" police moved in. You've voiced your opinion, dressed up as a government white paper, and it has met with descent. Please let others who actually use and know something about RV's to get on with their hobby and enjoy it. Regards Neal
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Guest Pol Emique
This is not a theory - it's a fact. Chemically treated fruits are extensively grown under plastic tunnels in southern europe (especially in Andalucia). Very low paid workers, housed in rudimentary accomodation, pick them when they are under-ripe to enable them to be transported hundreds of miles by HGV throughout europe to be sold at high prices in supermarkets and other high street outlets. My opinion is that it is an absurd and totally unnecessary waste of ressources. It has become the norm because the selfish (but mainly ignorant) totally 'divorced from nature' city dwellers of northern europe, have been led to believe that it is their right to eat tomatoes (for instance) all year round, regardless of the season. HGV's thundering round europe transporting unnecessary loads are what really annoy me. I only mentioned R.V's over 30 feet long in my 'diatribe'. My opinion is that most American R.V's are pretty tacky/vulgar inside and an anti-social means of transport. Opinions are allowed to be aired aren't they on this web site?
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Okay Pol, setting aside the issue of food supplies (I do have some sympathy with what you say but it is actually market forces driving it) and concerntrating on motorhomes (this is, after all, the MMM forum!) my question was have you actually seen inside many RV's built in the last 10 years or so? I am in limited agreement (limited mind) that tackiness CAN feature in RV's of the 70's and early 80's but they are nothing like that now. My own 1995 example would put many a european motorhome to shame with it's understated decor and quality finish. If you still don't believe me get to the dealers or the big shows. Have a look and I'm sure you'll change your mind. Even if you don't, that's your look out. It's "horses for courses" and, just because you personally think 30' ain't right, don't rubbish the interiors, they're grrrreat! Regards Neal
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Guest Pol Emique
Neal - 'Market forces' sounds very Thatcher like. We've seen what happens when legislation is ignored or reduced - eg, mad cow disease, railway disasters etc. Personally, I'd draw the line at 30 feet for R.V. use in europe and tax like hell anything that exceeds that length. Large SUV's should be taxed out of existence too, in my view. Yes, I will try to attend an R.V. show one day to check out your 'non tackiness' claims for the newer models.
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Pol I think we're moving closer together, you know. Thatherism is certainly NOT where I'm coming from, as any number of friends and acquaintances, not to mention family, will emphatically bear out. The "market forces" I refer to is the self-perpetuating circle of consumers taking advantage of something "rare" only for suppliers to make the commodity less "rare". It's a reality; it happens all the time. I don't know how you break the cycle. Consumers won't EVER stop buying what they want whenever it's available and, all the time commodities are selling, someone always seems willing to suplly them. Anyway, enough of that, you have a look at some RVs, you will be surprised. Regards Neal
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Guest Pol Emique
Neal - How to break the cycle? - By consuming locally grown, in season fruits and vegetables, for example.By refusing to buy insipid tomatoes and tasteless strawberries brought up from S. Spain in HGV's in February. By becoming more informed about the origin of what we eat and consume in general. By persuading our family and friends to do the same. I'll look at the newer RV's with the hope of being surprised. Pol.
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Pol You and I (honestly, I really do) already do this. I always check the origin of what I buy, choosing local products where possible and, if not, UK products. Your solution to break the cycle is over simplistict. Look around you in any supermarket in any town in Britain. Do you REALY think we can break the cycle? Perhaps I am defeatist but I think the "genie is out of the bottle". We will never get him back in. Still, I'm sure you'll like the interiors! Regards Neal
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Guest Pol Emique
Neal - As the late lamented George, ex Beatle pointed out - 'All things must pass' and of course, the absurdity of our present system, which entails incessant HGV journeys across europe,to bring out of season foodstuffs to our tables, will indeed end one day. This practise has only been in existence for the past thirty years or so. You and I are already non actors in this charade. 'IF YOU'VE GOT IT, A LORRY BROUGHT IT TO YOU' used to be the slogan. I'd add 'SO DON'T BUY IT' . Pol
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In all this diatribe about HGVs and American RVs it seems that the pollution caused by aircraft which is more of a problem to the world has been forgotten all about. Some of the goods you are talking about are not even european in origin but flown into this country before distribution by HGV. Furthermore why can't we use the railway system in this country to do national distribution and leave HGVs to do smaller local runs. Docted
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Guest Pol Emique
Docted - No, HGV's are the main problem, but don't get me started on air travel! I remember John Peel saying in 1969 during one of his Top Gear programmes 'The govt would be better off providing decent housing for the population than investing in supersonic aircraft'. He was right, what a sorry story that turned out to be. Excessive noise, excessive fuel consumption ( untaxed, like all aircraft fuel) and it all ended in disaster when a Concorde pilot tried to land on a hotel near Roissy! And what for? Just to ferry a few businessmen and tired out rockstars across the pond in record time. And now, the same people are bringing us the A380, a monster aircraft that will transport up to 800 passengers, when it's painfully obvious that mass tourism has devastating effects. The 'free market' ideas of 'you know who' ruined the railway system in the U.K. and privatising it put the final nail in its coffin.
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Look back over history, look at the massive climate changes we have already had. Based on this why should one believe the present panic about Global Warming?. Its been going hot and cold for thousands of years already. If we follow this arguement to its logical conclusion we shall all be living in home made tents travelling no further than we can walk eating whatever we find in the forest, sea etc.. The problem is too many people - but no government in the western world has the bottle to address this one head on, they are all too worried about the next generation not generating enough wealth for this generations pensions. Plus getting re-elected. Railways - sorry, if your arguement is logical you must go back well before the industrial revolution, well before flower power as well. Well?
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Hey this has turned into a political/environmental subject since I have been away for a few days hasn't it? Pol I of course new that convoi exceptionales are not allowed on the autoroutes my simple point was that normal roads can accomodate even the largest of RVs! We are all entitled to our own opinions and will agree to differ on this subject. I will say however if what you say were be taken to the extreme there should be no motorhomes atall as people should only go on holiday by ecofriendly means (walking,cycling or on horseback) so any motorhome irrespective of it's size would be a pollutant however small! (or is a little pollution ok?) Best wishes and goodbye on this subject Pat
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Wow never written here before strange to see Clive and Pat agreeing fot once usually at logerhaeds over "gin Palaces" as I seem to remember. Pol I think your ramblings are well meaning but we both know that things will not change not quickly anyway. Also just think how badly off would the poor Morrocans be without even the terrible jobs that they do have, would you have them stay in Morrocco and suffer more? Tourism has been a life saver for alot of countries both poorer and richer people work hard and want to enjoy themselves and do it in the way they wish to not be dictated to by someone who does not agree with their ideas, and long may it be so!! I have a 37" RV and enjoy it immensely why should I be taxed more heavily I pay enough on the fuel I buy. Thinking of you as I sit here eating my Dannish bacon sandwich and drinking my German lager! LOL Coil. ps what the hell are SUV's?????Never heard of them!
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Guest Pol Emique
Clive - Oh No, it's not the growing world populations that puts pressure on the world's ressources. The vast majority of greenhouse gases are produced by the heavily industrialised countries (USA, well in front) where the smallest part of the world's population lives. Americans live in large houses with air con, big fridges, big everything and they drive SUV's and (sometimes) own 12 metre long RV's. The American way of life is not negotiable, said Reagan, Clinton, Bush. There are virtually no scientists now denying that a severe climate change is on us NOW. We can limit its impact by changing our lifestyles. Frankly,no, it's not the time to be importing extra large RV's. I'll make no apologies for being a realist, and Clive I'm not suggesting taking things to the extreme and going back to horseback. It's 12 metre RV's that are extreme! Pol
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Guest Pol Emique
SUV - Sports Utility Vehicles became popular in the USA because of tax loophole which classes them as agricultural vehicles. (tax deductible).
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Well, what can I say. I have a SUV as well, Land Rover Disco (No, not the new 2.7 tonne one) and I cannot afford a 12 meter Yank RV either. Everything is OK in moderation, as long as everybody doesn,t try and do it. But I am quite serious about over population. If the Americans had as much cash each but there was only 10% of them then the effect on the environment would be an order less - but would it make any difference?
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Guest Pol Emique
Yes, it certainly would, considering the US is responsible for over 60% of the world's greenhouse gas emissions. But they could reach the same point by not resorting to driving around in outsize vehicles, living in outsized houses etc etc. I can afford a 12 metre RV but I'd never buy one.
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Now Thats showing off! Would I!! We knew a very nice couple who had a massive Winebago, across the back is said "SIZE DOES MATTER". They purchased it, drive it to a camp site where they were wardens, parked it there for several years without moving it , then eventually sold it - and moved to France to run a small camp site of their own. Now, you cannot say that was irresponsible use of a 12 metre RV, on the other hand WHY when a static van would have done just the same at far les cost.
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Guest Brian Ramsden
I can restrain myself no longer and have to join in! It isn't "Reagan, Clinton and Bush" who say that the lifestyle is non-negotiable, its the US electorate - democracy at work. Actually, depending on who's statistics you accept, it is the wood fuelled cooking fires of the poor people of the world which are the single greatest source of "greenhouse gases". There are many eminent scientists, experts in the subject, who maintain that, whilst climate change is an observable fact, the cause is not yet known. One theory even says that it is only our production of "grennhouse gases" that is saving us from the onset of another ice-age. It would be irresposible to rush into measures which would damage the economies of the countries that, currently, can afford to pay for teh research which might find the actual cause in time to do something about it. That is being a realist! That said, if I were dictator, I would ban all oversize RVs and campers, SUVs, BMWs et al on the grounds that they were purely ostentatious! Also helicopters, private aircraft and other sources of noise pollution.
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