Jump to content

Angles Mort stickers


Deffheads

Recommended Posts

Derek Uzzell - 2021-09-26 3:33 PM

I see that ebay has an advert for 'motorhome' versions of the stickers. (I've no idea if these are French legal!))

 

There are only 2 legal versions both have "CE" markings 1 for Trucks & 1 for Bus any bought from Ebay will unlikely meet the requirements of a French accident investigator

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When the French regulation was brought in, the size of the stickers (25cm height x 17cm width) and their placement on a vehicle were clearly stated, as was the design of the two stickers (one showing a lorry and the other a 3-axle coach/bus).

 

However (although I can well believe that some sticker producers may have added a CE-marking to their products) I’d be surpised if that’s mandatory as a) the Angles Morts regulation is a French national initiative and b) the CE-marking scheme does not seem appropriate for this type of product. Can you provide a link, please, confirming that all Angles Morts stickers MUST carry the CE-marking?

 

This 17 February 2021 “Campng-Car Magazine” article

 

https://www.camping-car.com/reglementation/26341-piqure-de-rappel-la-signalisation-des-angles-morts-est-obligatoire-pour-les-camping-cars-de-plus-de-35-tonnes

 

advised

 

...it does not matter whether you choose the truck or the bus (sticker), both are valid on motorhomes. While waiting for a hypothetical dedicated sticker?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A900ss - 2021-09-27 4:45 PM

Not that this has any legal basis at all but I’ve just come back from a week in France and no MH's have these stickers on that I saw.

Which may just mean you didn't see any with a MAM exceeding 3.5 tonnes. The French have only relatively recently gained what we know a "grandfather rights", so for French motorhomers getting a licence to drive a motorhome exceeding 3.5 tonnes was expensive and time consuming. That dictates that most vans will be at, or below 3.5, tonnes and the rule only applies to those over 3.5 tonnes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are currently in France having been on the Loire, out to Royan and now il D’Oleron. About 2 weeks so far and I have seen plenty of vans (all French) displaying both truck and bus versions. I have no doubt many have not bothered so far, but without checking vin plates one can not determine what percentage should be displaying. A decent proportion of them are, like mine about the 7 metre mark, so not obviously over the 3500kg limit. Even saw one of those unimog style German plated desert crossing type vans at about 6 metres long and 4 or 5 metres high ( they could just about manage the steps),but it looked odd with its angle mort stickers, although perhaps its blind spots are worse than a conventional Motorhome due to the height!

 

Seen more angle mort signs on French vans than British or Irish vans with or without (only one spotted)

 

Davy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Landed Cherbourg, Issigny, Fougères, Saumur, found a nice little Aire in Blere (camping car park) by the river Cher and just a few km from Chenencoux then Amboise camp site, Royan (ccp) and now on the Aire at St Denis d’Oleron before we head slowly north for the boat on the 8th. A few old favourites to get us going again!!

 

Better stop now before we drift the thread, but a decent number of vans with angle mort stickers.

 

Davy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry for thread drift. The Aire in Blere looks interesting, didn't know about it until already on the campsite at Le Moulin Fort (excellent.). Maybe next time (OH is addicted to Chenenceau!)

To keep on thread... seeing more and more stickers, don't know when or if the Gendarmerie will start to take interest but why not comply for the sake of a few euros?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our experience very different - been in France 4 weeks and seen few stickers. Those that were stickered have generally been liners or tag axle - ie very obviously over 3.5 tonnes. Certainly a lot of French larger A class vans (which I’m 90% sure will come in at 4000kg or more) have no stickers.

We’ve got some with us but haven’t put them on because they’re not only very ugly but they appear to be hard to remove without damage. We’re only here another week, sadly, but when we get back are going to look into getting some film which is easier to remove from the van and attaching the stickers to that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Magnetic versions of these ‘stickers’ are readily available. Obviously of little use if a motorhome is an A-class design with all-plastic bodywork. But if a ‘heavy’ motorhome has its original tin cab, magnetic stickers could be attached to that.

 

This ebay ‘motorhome’ entry advertises two magnetic stickers, plus one self adhesive sticker

 

https://tinyurl.com/yetzt3am

 

but ‘official format’ stickers (lorry or coach image) can also be purchased (example advert here)

 

https://tinyurl.com/46vx2hed

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These warning signs I believe are only required in Urban Areas, (awaiting definition)

 

The French are renown for their pragmatism hence why;

 

The magnetic variety are for those wishing to easily and quickly dispense with this

piece of artwork on exiting an urban area and heading for non urban area. Typically

the time stressed vehicule acier driver.

 

The stick-on are of course for non ferrous application, as typically to be found on larger motor

homes, as predominately driven by OAPs with an inverter and hairdryer on board plus plenty

of time on their hands to unstick the aberration:-D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The rationale behind the Angles Morts ‘stickers’ is that this might reduce accidents involving heavy vehicles (over 3500kg) and pedestrians/cyclists, and there’s no doubt that such accidents will primarily occur in urban areas. However, I can’t find anything in the French regulations stating that the law applies only to urban areas and (consequently) would not apply outside urban areas.

 

What I can find is plenty of online entries (mostly on truck-related websites) saying that the law applies only in an urban environment (example here)

 

https://fleet.ie/france-now-requires-blind-spot-warning-stickers-for-heavy-goods-vehicles/

 

and even an advert suggesting that the benefit of the magnetic sticker was that it could easily be removed when the vehicle ‘went rural’.

 

But (as far as I can see) there’s nowt in the French law

 

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/JORFTEXT000042865682

 

stating (or even suggesting) that the law applies ‘urban only’ and it would be VERY odd indeed if it did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My interpretation of simian’s comments is that the Angles Morts (AM) signs do nothing to improve the appearance of a vehicle (and, of course, the requirement for the signs only applies in France).

 

So let’s imagine there’s a snazzy UK-registered coach that’s going to take a group of UK tourists down to Spain for a 10-day holiday. The coach-driver could stick magnetic AM signs on the coach when it enters France and remove the signs when it crosses into Spain where the coach’s pristine good looks would not be disfigured by ugly AM signs. Then, when the tour’s time in Spain was over, the magnetic AM signs could be reattached easily to the coach for the journey back through France and then removed when the coach reentered the UK.

 

I’ve no problem with that imaginary scenario as the AM signs are definitely not vehicle beauty-spots, but I’m uncomfortable with the suggestion that the AM signs are only mandatory if a 3500kg+ vehicle is operating in an urban environment. As I said above, this ‘exemption’ is commonly referred to online (examples here)

 

https://tinyurl.com/nx8rxkye

 

It came up in this 17 December 2020 French newspaper article

 

https://www.ouest-france.fr/societe/securite-routiere/angles-morts-sur-les-poids-lourds-des-autocollants-pour-proteger-les-deux-roues-7090104

 

Au 1er janvier 2021. Tous les véhicules de plus de 3,5 t circulant en milieu urbain, qu’ils transportent des marchandises ou des personnes, devront apposer ce sticker « sur les côtés et à l’arrière du véhicule ».

 

and this early-2021 link

 

https://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=167609

 

mentions ‘urban areas’ and the lack of clarity regarding that phrase.

 

Not clear

 

A legal article was published this month. It contains nothing about the 'urban areas' where this compulsory sticker is needed. That was, however, stated in the information published last year. It said carriers would be exempt if they were merely driving through, not around in, an urban area. TLN has asked the French authorities for clarification on this point. The organization will communicate this as soon as they know more.

 

See also this piece that appeared on Page 134 of the July 2021 issue of MMM Magazine in a “Touring in Europe” article.

 

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/mmm-the-motorhomers-magazine/20210527/285847261059842

 

It may be the case, then, that the original intention/plan was for Angles Morts signs to be compulsory only in urban areas, but that ‘exemption’ has not been carried into French law. If the exemption is enshrined in French law, it would be nice to know where.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This link is to an article titled "Reading is believing: The truth effect and source credibility”

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1053810011002200

 

It would APPEAR that, sometime in the past, a credible source stated that Angles Morts (AM) stickers were (or would be) mandatory only when a 3500kg+ vehicle was being operated within an urban area. As failing to display these AM stickers when legally necessary would result in prosecution and a fine, this statement should immediately be questioned a) because ‘an urban area’ is ill-defined and b) it’s impossible to see how such an idea would be workable in practice. Much more logical and sensible would be for it to be mandatory for any 3500kg+ vehicle being driven anywhere in France to have AM stickers on it and (as far as I can make out) that’s what the relevant French regulation (and their Code de la Route) now says.

 

The trouble is that, once a statement from a credible source is believed to be true (which it might well be when the statement is made) and enters the internet’s publc domain, it will be repeated as true ad infinitum until challenged and found to be false.

 

It has to be said that there are some traffic-related regulations that are ‘area sensitive’, that (one might think) should be rational and simple, but have changed over time and still seem odd. For example, the bicycle helmet laws in Spain.

 

https://www.healthplanspain.com/blog/expat-tips/467-cycling-laws-in-spain.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Certainly not disagreeing with the basic point but surely the concept of urban areas in French traffic law is already well established via speed limits? Not that this helps much - some hamlets seem to qualify for a name plaque! (Not that I’m bitter about a speeding fine a couple of years ago…)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...