Are my batteries OK

[garethgb21]

Hi everyone and thanks for reading this.

 

I have 2 leisure batteries connected together (parallel) and they haven't been used for about 5 months.

 

I'm not sure they are working to capacity and are faulty. And as they have a 2-year warranty (they are around 18 months old now), whether I should take them back to Halfords.

 

This is what happens when I charge them overnight after a full charge, and then what the charge in volts, is after each day of nothing pulling a load from them.

 

12.9 V - after a full overnight charge

12.6 V - 2nd day - battery not used

12.4 V - 3rd day - battery not used

12.3 V - 4th day - battery not used

12.3 V - 5th day - battery not used

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Kind regards all.

[rayc]

I am no expert but as I understand it Lead Acid batteries self discharge at a rate of approx 5% per month. This rate increases with temperature and that is why batteries should be stored in cool locations. Personally and it is only my opinion, I think your batteries are ok and that in any event what matters more is the load discharge rate. If I had doubts I would remove the battery parallel link and check each battery independently.

This is what I use to test batteries https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Car-Battery-Tester-Auto-Vehicle-Battery-Analyzer-AGM-CCA-GEL-MICRO-200-Kit/192726174809?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[mikefitz]

Assuming there is nothing connected to the batteries, one or both batteries have failed. You could repeat the test with each battery charged separately rather than in parallel.

You have nothing to lose by taking the batteries back to Halfords, hopefully they will replace them. It's useful taking along your meter and testing the replacements before accepting them.

 

Mike

[BruceM]

When you state that the batteries do not have a load on them are they completely disconnected from the van? It’s worth bearing in mind that if the batteries are connected to the van with everything turned off there is still likely to be a slight drain dependant on the type of electronics installed.

 

It would also be useful to know the brand and model of battery.

[rayc]

It would be interesting to know what is being used to measure the battery voltage and its accuracy. It can be important when worrying about fractions of a volt on the 20A range of a basic multimeter.

[StuartO]

I don't know how Halfords deal with warranty claims for batteries but dealers commonly only give credit for the remainder of the warranty period, so in the OP's case the batteries are 18 months old and the warranty is two years so they might allow 25% credit against replacement batteries bought from them. They probably would give a 25% refund if you were not going to buy replacements from them. Halford are unlikely to sell good quality leisure batteries, so it might make sense to bite the bullet and buy better batteries elsewhere.

 

The only better warranty for batteries used as leisure batteries in the five year guarantee offered with some Bosch and Varta batteries,notably the Varta LFD90, which the late Allan Evans used to sing the praises of. They have a five year warranty and this is supposed to mean they will replace with a new one if it fails within five years. Best value supplier was Alpha Batteries, who sell on line and will deliver. I paid £75 or so for my Varta LFD90 and it's still going strong after two years so far. Incidentally I used to carry a pair of leisure batteries but since I've had solar panels, we never use more than about 30AH per evening and the leisure battery is always fully recharged by the solar panels each day, I decided I didn't need two leisure batteries and took one out to save the weight. Again so far so good, we've always had a full battery each evening when we start switching things on.

[garethgb21]

Thanks, everyone for your input, especially StuartO who wrote an extensive reply. It's greatly appreciated that you've given your time to this.

 

So my plan is..... test each independently and take one or both back, hoping for replacements. My theory is if they are ready for replacing then I'll just keep taking the new ones back time and time again if they continue to become faulty (if that makes sense) . I'll email Halfords now.

 

To answer a few questions. They are HB019, Halfords Leisure Battery 115Ah. And I used my multimeter to test the voltage output. In addition, they are connected to the van in parallel when I say no load is taken.

 

Regards.

[Paul-]

It would be good if you could put the batteries onto a decent charger for a few days, one that will try to remove the sulfation that will have built up while you neglected them,

Bearing in mind Its good practice to keep batteries charged to keep them in top condition rather than trying to resurrect them,

[Derek Uzzell]

Gareth

 

I’m not sure from your description which Halfords batteries you have.

 

The HB019 battery seems to be an ordinary ‘maintainable’ starter battery (with 019 dimensions) having a 95Ah capacity and a 3-year warranty.

 

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/batteries/car-batteries/halfords-hb019-lead-acid-12v-car-battery-3-year-guarantee-952499.html

 

Halfords leisure batteries are shown here

 

https://tinyurl.com/y94o79hq

 

All four are said to have a 2-year warranty, but only the HLB681 is advertised as having a 115Ah capacity

 

https://www.halfords.com/camping/electrical-and-power/halfords-leisure-battery-hlb681-957217.html

 

The photo suggests thaat the HLB681 is ‘maintainable’ (ie. its electrolyte level can be checked and topped up if necessary) and its NCC Class of “C” indicates that it’s best suited for light duties.

 

(As rayc warned above, when checking the voltage of a 12V battery using an inexpensive multimeter, even when the meter is in full working order its accuracy may not be 100%.)

[spirou]

Leave the batteries on charge for 2 days, disconnect from everything (physically) then measure voltage of each individually like you have.

 

My van has a ~1W standby drain with everything "off" so that will have an effect on readings.

 

To test further you could try a load test but that's a bit more involved and unnecessary if you find they don't hold their charge under rest conditions.

 

 

[mikefitz]

I will expand on my brief reply to the 'are my batteries OK' question.

A battery in good condition , even if not completely fully charged, will not drop the open circuit voltage by over 0.3 of a volt in a few days. If the batteries are indeed HB019 starter batteries, they are unsuitable for leisure use and have been incorrectly sold by Halfords ( assuming they were told it was for a leisure application). These types will not last very long in a leisure application.

Unlike companies, like Alpha Batteries, that have a large turnover of batteries, Halfords leisure batteries often spend much longer on the shelf. Thus my suggestion to measure the voltage of Halfords batteries before accepting them, a voltage in excess of 12.6 would be OK.

The Halfords warranty is usually more generous than a sole battery supplier and you may recover full costs against their leisure batteries.

The best value leisure battery in the Halfords range is the HLB700 . This is a re branded Yuasa EFB that is recommended for leisure use.

 

I suggest it will be a waste of time attempting to bring your batteries back to life. Try to get some compensation from Halfords against replacements, hopefully the HLB700 . If this is unsuccessful order Yuasa L36EFB or Varta LFD90 from Alpha Batteries, both types have a proven track record.

 

Mike

[garethgb21]

Sorry, my mistake. I have 2 of the leisure batteries.

[Derek Uzzell]

Yes, but which one?

 

As I said above, the Halfords website currently indicates that their only ‘leisure battery’ with an advertised capacity of 115Ah is the HLB681. This has L x W x H dimensions of 352mm x 175mm x 227mm - so it is quite tall. From the photo on Halfords’ website the HLB681 is ‘maintainable’ and if this is the battery you have, have you checked the electrolyte-level?

 

I don’t know how lenient Halfords is regarding battery warranty claims, but if it is found that your batteries (or just one of them) contains insufficient electrolyte, this might well affect your claim.

 

 

[garethgb21]

It's 2 Halfords Leisure Batteries 115Ah, not the HLB681 as I bought that for the engine about the same time. So ignore that.

 

Right, I have fully charged them both independently and they have both gone to 12.93 volts each.

 

Are these faulty?

 

Thanks again.

[Keithl]

garethgb21 - 2020-05-20 9:47 AM

 

It's 2 Halfords Leisure Batteries 115Ah, not the HLB681 as I bought that for the engine about the same time. So ignore that.

 

Right, I have fully charged them both independently and they have both gone to 12.93 volts each.

 

Are these faulty?

 

Thanks again.

 

Leave them standing, totally disconnected from any load or each other, for 24 hours then measure again.

 

Keith.

[garethgb21]

Ok I have disconnected them completely, fully charged them, and took readings each day. These are the results....

 

Battery 1

12.94 Volts fully Chared

13.01 Volts second day

12.97 Volts third day

 

Battery 2

12.92 Volts fully charged

12.92 Volts second day

[Derek Uzzell]

This link may help you

 

http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/2154717/pdf/faq.pdf

 

As a rule of thumb, a voltage reading anything over 12.7 for an ordinary 12V wet-acid battery ‘at rest’ can be taken to mean that the battery is fully charged.

 

As it says on the link

 

...the battery must be in a rest state. In other words, the battery should not be supplying power to any type of load. The experts say that the battery should remain at rest for at least 24 hours to get an accurate measurement, but in a pinch a couple of hours are good enough to make a reasonable guess.

 

The only way to be absolutely sure that your battery is fully charged is to do a load test. It is best to have the battery dealer do this for you. We only mention it here because it is possible for a battery to indicate a good voltage, but then immediately when you try to use it, it acts like it’s dead. This doesn’t happen very often, but it is a possibility.

 

(I’ve known the latter happen once, where, over several days, regular ’at rest’ voltage readings were taken and the readings suggested that the battery’s state of charge was 100%. Then, when a load was placed on the battery, the voltage ‘crashed’.)

 

In your first posting above you provided voltage readings across a 5-day period and said that no load was being placed on the batteries. As was then advised, if there had genuinely been no load on the batteries, the decrease from 12.9V to 12.3V over 5 days would have indicated a problem. Now that you’ve completely disconnected the batteries, if the voltage reading is stable at around 12.9 over 5 days, the batteries should be OK.

 

Idle curiosity, but why did you choose a Halford’s HLB681 battery as a starter-battery? It would seem to be an odd choice unless there is something about your motorhome that demands a battery with the HLB681’s dimensions.

 

I notice that, in 2015, you mentioned having a “German made 1991 camper”, but no other vehicle details were provided then.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/12-Volt-TV-Works-Sometimes/37812/

 

 

 

 

 

[garethgb21]

So the batteries seem ok. So what's getting me, is why when I plug them into the van, where is the voltage going, as nothing is switched on?

 

The HLB681 battery was just a swap for what was already there btw.

[Derek Uzzell]

If the leisure batteries’ state of charge does not reduce (or reduces by just a tiny amount) over a period of (say) 5 days when the batteries are disconnected from your motorhome’s electrical system, but - when the batteries are reconnected to your motorhome’s electrical system - the state of charge reduces as you said in your original posting

 

12.9 V - after a full overnight charge

12.6 V - 2nd day - battery not used

12.4 V - 3rd day - battery not used

12.3 V - 4th day - battery not used

12.3 V - 5th day - battery not used

 

then plainly something in your motorhome is causing the batteries to discharge.

 

I’m believe there is much profit in continuing to try to establish what’s going on. You have provided no details of the motorhome you own

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/IDENTIFYING-YOUR-MOTORHOME/54713/

 

nor of the leisure batteries themselves (other than them being "Halfords Leisure Batteries 115Ah”). Surely there must be a reference number on the batteries somewhere?

 

As for using a Halfords HLB681 for starting your motorhome, you should not expect that battery to last long.

 

 

[spirou]

It will be difficult to establish exactly what is causing the drain without a batery monitor but try unplugging fuses from the most likely culprits. Anything that might have a standby mode first.

 

As stated before, even with everything off at the control panel I have a small drain which is a sum of a propane alarm, solar regulator and battery monitor. Possibly something else but each individually and all combined don't ammount to much so I don't care. In your case it could be quite a bit more so worth finding out.

[stevejelf]

Many Radios, to keep your favourites, security and remote door commands stay live and could cause a drain

[Derek Uzzell]

spirou - 2020-05-21 7:40 PM

 

It will be difficult to establish exactly what is causing the drain without a batery monitor but try unplugging fuses from the most likely culprits. Anything that might have a standby mode first...

 

As Gareth has fully disconnected his two leisure batterues from his motorhome’s electrical system, he now has the opportunity to reconnect the batteries and take ammeter readings fairly easily. This should establish whether there is a current drain and, if so, how large it is. It’s well known that appliances seemingly switched off can still drain a battery (eg. an inverter) and an ammeter check might help pin-point what’s going on.

 

The difficulty with Gareth’s enquiry is that there is so little back-story. In his original posting he said that the two leisure batteries “...haven't been used for about 5 months”, but does that mean the batteries were not charged for 5 months or what? There’s also the ‘fully charged’ readings of around 13V, which seem high to me for what are (I assume) common-or-garden wet-acid batteries. It’s not known how ‘hard’ the batteries were being used before the 5-months lay-off, nor whether they are the type where the electrolyte-level can be topped up.

 

Halfords advertises a free battery-health check

 

https://www.halfords.com/car-repairs/car-checks/free-battery-health-check-PRODUCTBATTERY.html

 

but that will undoubtedly be oriented towards starter batteries rather than leisure batteries.

 

It’s generally understood that Halfords leisure batteries are re-branded Yuasa products

 

https://www.yuasa.co.uk/batteries/leisure-marine-garden/leisure-batteries/show/all.html

 

and the 115Ah variant was mentioned in this 2017 CaravanTalk forum thread

 

https://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/122754-bargain-halfords-leisure-battery-115ah/

 

There’s also this 2017 YouTube video

 

 

but it’s obvious (attachment below) that the Halfords 115Ah battery being discussed there is a HLB681

 

If Gareth has doubts about his Halfords leisure batteries’ current condition, as the batteries are still within the 2-year warranty period, the logical thing to do would be to take them to Halfords and seek replacements. After all, what has Gareth to lose by doing this?

 

 

 

[garethgb21]

Hi.

 

I did post quite a while ago, but that was for a different van. I have a Mercedes conversion now.

 

And yes the batteries have been stood for 5 months with no use.

 

It seems to me, and some of you, that these batteries are in fact fine but something somewhere is draining them.

 

I'm on with a theory. The rocker switch on the zig, when switched from starter to leisure battery reads the same volts. I wonder if somehow, the leisure batteries are in fact charging the starter battery somehow and thus they are linked. I'm guessing there is something that shouldn't allow that to happen. Also, I'll be taking all the fuses out and replacing one by one to also test that theory. Can't see what else I can do. I'm a novice around a multimeter and only know how to do a volt check.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

If your leisure batteries were not charged for 5 months and they were losing charge during that period at the rate shown in your first posting, they would be completely discharged by the the time you got round to charging them back up - and there’s a strong possibility that any battery allowed to completely discharge will never fully recover its original capability.

 

It’s a long time since I’ve seen the word “zig” used on a motorhome forum. It used to be commonplace 20 years ago for “zig” to be used as a generic (and confusing) reference to every motorhome’s main electrical control-panel as the UK company “ZIG” had dominated the UK market as a supplier of control-panels and battery chargers to UK caravan/mototrhome manufacturers.

 

It’s usually the case that, when a motorhome’s control-panel has a switch to select the starter or leisure battery, this permits onboard 12V habitation services (lights, water-pump, etc) to be powered from whichever battery has been selected. So, if that’s what your control-panel’s switch is for, it should not interconnect the starter and leisure batteries.

 

However, there is the possibility that a motorhome might have a ‘battery balancer’ (eg the Van Bitz “Battery Master”) designed to pass charge to the starter-battery from the leisure batteries to maintain the starter battery’s state of charge. So, if a motorhome’s starter battery were losing charge, this could potentially pull down the leisure batteries’ charge-state as a result.

 

If your leisure batteries' discharge is insidious but small when those batteries are connected to your motorhome’s electrical system, I’m doubtful that removing/replacing fuses will aid diagnosis unless you take ammeter readings rather than voltage readings.

[garethgb21]

Thanks Derek. The first port of call then is to test the started battery.