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Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
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userCritter
Posted: 7 September 2020 3:01 PM
Subject: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 
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Posts: 5

Location: CI Cipro 55 "top class", 06 reg, Fiat Ducato base


I have a 2006 CI Cipro 55 (Fiat Ducato base).
Sometimes (not always) when we pitch up we can hear a strident alarm from the little locked compartment under the table. The compartment houses the water pump and a red switch which can select the main fresh water tank, rear fresh water tank or both tanks.
We have no idea why the alarm sounds, we have tried adjusting the vehicle's level with wedges, filling both fresh water tanks, emptying both fresh water tanks.
The only thing that works is to disconnect the wire that feeds the alarm.
The odd thing is that with the wire disconnected there seems to be no part of the system that is not working (except the alarm).
Could anyone please shed any light on what the alarm is for and how I keep it quiet without unplugging wires which obviously ought to be plugged in?
Thank you
userKeithl
Posted: 7 September 2020 4:50 PM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 


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Location: Birmingham. 2004 Auto-Trail Cheyenne Mercedes 313.


Is it near your leisure battery(ies)?

If so it could be either a Carbon Monoxide (CO) or Propane alarm and is being set off by an overcharged battery releasing Hydrogen gas.

If you wait a while are you then able to reconnect it without it sounding again? If so how long do you have to wait?

Keith.
userstevec176
Posted: 7 September 2020 5:52 PM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 


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Posts: 382
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Location: Nr Attleborough, Norfolk. Motorhome Rapido 665f


Does it appear to be original build or is it someone's modification? Can you trace the wires back to see where it's connected?

Edited by stevec176 2020-09-07 5:54 PM
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 7 September 2020 6:43 PM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Paul.

It might be useful to know how long you’ve owned your Cipro 55 and whether the loud noise that occasionally occurs when you pitch up has been an ongoing phenomenon during your period of ownership or has begun to occur recently.

I note that you’ve said that the sound is coming from “...the little locked compartment under the table”, but I’m not certain if “locked” means that you haven’t accessed that compartment. As you know that the compartment has a water pump and a water-tank selection switch in it, I assume you’ve got inside the compartment - in which case you (probably) should be able to say what the piece of kit that is making the noise looks like (a photo might be handy if you can provide it).

I would have thought (as Steve has touched on) that the water-pump and the tank selection capability have nothing to do with the alarm, and that the ‘noise maker’ has been retro-fitted - but that’s because I can’t think of a persuasive reason why the water-related components you’ve mentioned might need ‘alarming’.

If the thing that has been making the noise has been retro-fitted, without doing what Steve has suggested (ie. tracing the wiring) it’s going to need a very high-tech crystal ball to accurately diagnose what’s causing this to happen.

(I suppose you can’t contact the previous owner of your motorhome to ask about this?)
userCritter
Posted: 8 September 2020 8:45 AM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 
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Location: CI Cipro 55 "top class", 06 reg, Fiat Ducato base


Thank you for the replies. Hmm food for thought.
I can only assume from the answers so far that it is not a standard thing that everyone else is aware of and I'm just being a numpty - Which is some consolation at least

I have had the van for about 7 years and only noticed the sound for the first time last year. But then heard it at least twice on other trips.

It's loud enough to be irritating. The lockable compartment is under the table which is directly aft of the passenger seat. The leisure battery (brand new as of December last year) is under the passenger seat. So - it sounded three times with the old battery in place, and once with the new battery,. That was this weekend which tragically is the first time I have used the van during this weird and horrible year.
The compartment is lockable, the manual says "to prevent children from accessing it". The key is the standard van key which unlocks the side door, the locker, the gas locker and the toilet cassette hatch.

I could get a picture next weekend but before then as the van is stored about 12 miles from home and I am working from home.

There are cables in the compartment and I am not electrically savvy enough to know what they are for, some connect to the pump though. The alarm sounder itself is a black disc about 1/2" diameter on the end of a cable which is connected to some other wires by one cable with no break and one which can be broken by disconnecting two halves of a white plastic cable connector. (you can tell from the words I am using - I am not electrically tech savvy).

I have no idea if it is original or retrofit and no idea who the previous owner may have been.



userKeithl
Posted: 8 September 2020 8:52 AM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 


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Critter - 2020-09-08 8:45 AM
...it sounded three times with the old battery in place, and once with the new battery,. That was this weekend which tragically is the first time I have used the van during this weird and horrible year.


This certainly sounds like it could be a CO alarm being set off by a failing leisure battery as it is in close proximity.

As your MH is in storage would I be right in assuming you have no EHU in storage in which case the 'new' battery could well have gone flat during this enforced time of no use and now gassing off as it is being charged whilst driving.

When you get to your MH can you check the voltage of the leisure battery before doing anything else please, this will give an indication as to the health of the battery.

Keith.

PS The alarm may only sound with the engine switched off if it is wired from the habitation electrics which are typically switched off when the engine is running by what is often call an 'EMC' relay. hence why you only hear it when you have arrived at site and turned off the engine and do not hear it while driving.
userCritter
Posted: 8 September 2020 9:03 AM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 
Just joined

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Location: CI Cipro 55 "top class", 06 reg, Fiat Ducato base


Thank you Keith, I will have a look at the voltage.

The battery is new, and we have a solar panel so it has not gone flat at all (perhaps I should have mentioned that earlier).

I am not sure what an EHU is?

If it means a power supply then the MH has the solar panel, but is not plugged into the mains in storage which is on gravel but in a farm along with about 200 other MHs and caravans.
We are getting soft in our older age and always pick sites with electric hook up.

Edited by Critter 2020-09-08 9:32 AM
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 8 September 2020 9:34 AM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 


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Critter - 2020-09-08 8:45 AM

...The alarm sounder itself is a black disc about 1/2” diameter...



Circular ‘buzzers’ (example image below) are often used as part of a reversing sensor system and (on my 2005 Hobby motorhome) I fitted one to provide an audible warning of the manually-switched entrance step still being extended when the vehicle’s ignition was turned on. This type of device - although small - can be VERY loud indeed.

It’s near certain that the sounder has been retro-fitted, but the question needs to be asked why it should have been installed in the little compartment under the table.

(I’m doubtful that the black disc relates to a CO alarm as I don’t think CO alarms marketed for leisure-vehicle use have the capability for a remote sounder to be attached to them.)



(s-l640.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments s-l640.jpg (19KB - 4 downloads)
userlancepar
Posted: 8 September 2020 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 


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Location: Quarry Bank DY5 '05 Fiat AutoTrail Cheyenne 635SE


Could it be a back-up beeper/reversing alarm

userKeithl
Posted: 8 September 2020 10:25 AM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 


Lord of the posts

Posts: 5479
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Location: Birmingham. 2004 Auto-Trail Cheyenne Mercedes 313.


Critter - 2020-09-08 9:03 AM
I am not sure what an EHU is?

You actually answered your own question...

Critter - 2020-09-08 9:03 AM
We are getting soft in our older age and always pick sites with electric hook up.


And having seen Derek's view on what your beeper looks like I'll agree it is more likely a step out or steady down warning buzzer.

Keith.
userGman
Posted: 8 September 2020 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 
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Location: Kippax, West Yorkshire. CI carioca 694


OK, I know the carioca 694 is not the same, (It's a CI) but without a doubt,
it's the under bed locker door that is sounding the alarm.
There's a switch near the upper portion of the door thats faulty
or it has come loose, or the door is open. Have a look in the locker.
Hope this helps.

Steve.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 8 September 2020 2:05 PM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 


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I’ve just come across this 2015 forum thread relating to a 2004 CI Carioca 15.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Hints-and-Tips/CI-Carioca-15/38425/#M463941

Paul referred to a

...black disc about 1/2" diameter on the end of a cable which is connected to some other wires by one cable with no break and one which can be broken by disconnecting two halves of a white plastic cable connector.

I THINK this is a Truma remote room temperature sensor for his motorhome’s heater (which I'm guessing is probably a Truma Trumatic C combination air/water heater). The sensor is shown in the 1st image below and there are cables (2nd image) that lead from the rear of the sensor to the Truma heater that has a dedicated ‘port’ into which the far end of the cable plugs.

There are problems with this hypothesis that Paul would need to comment on.

a) A Truma remote room temperature sensor would need to be OUTSIDE the lockable compartment under Paul’s Carioca’s table and not inside the compartment. (The 2015 forum discussion refers to “a small black plastic round fitting protruding from the side facia at knee height”.)

b) The sensor is not designed to have any ’noise-making’ capability. (I don’t know if it’s possible for the sensor to make a noise if there’s some sort of weird fault or miswiring, but I would not have thought so.)

The 2015 forum thread mentioned there being “...a switch which activates when the rear nearside luggage/store hatch is open” and that tallies with what Steve has suggested - that the noise is an alarm warning that a locker door is open (or ’thought’ to be open).

If that’s so (and the 1/2" diameter disc is a remote temperature sensor) something else in/near the locker is producing the noise, and - if the noise is just a ‘locker door-not-properly-closed’ warning - it’s to be expected that disconnecting the cable that powers the noise-maker would silence the alarm but have no other effect.

(Sadly, the person (“tidy”) who enquired about this in 2015 never responded and only posted once.)




(Truma sensor2.png)



(Truma sensor1.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Truma sensor2.png (180KB - 3 downloads)
Attachments Truma sensor1.jpg (20KB - 4 downloads)
userGman
Posted: 8 September 2020 2:30 PM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 
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Location: Kippax, West Yorkshire. CI carioca 694


One thing I forgot to mention, the "locker door open" alarm, at least,
on my 694 seems to be ignition controled, (only sounds with ignition on)
I found this out when trying to level up on site with locker door ajar, closed
it fully, and silenced it

Steve.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 8 September 2020 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


I don't think you've ever said when your Carioca 694 was built, but the model seems to have been marketed in the UK from around 2008.

I notice that (like Paul's Cipro 55 Top Class) the 694 has.a large external hinge-up locker door that provides access to the area under the rear 'French' bed, and it would make good sense for safety/security reasons for a switch to be fitted to that door to trigger an alarm If the door were not properly closed.

The 2015 forum thread seems to suggest that the switch may be fitted by CI during the conversion process, so could you say what actually produces the 'alarm' noise, please?
userGman
Posted: 8 September 2020 5:43 PM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 
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Location: Kippax, West Yorkshire. CI carioca 694


It's a small 1/2 inch round black thingy, looks like a small jack plug, or head
of a golf tee, it makes a rather shrill note that you can't really ignore. It's fitted
in the outer face of the water pump cupboard, below the door, near the warm
air duct outlet under the table. Rather vauge, I know. Sorry I can't post pictures
for some reason on here. My 694 is a late 2009.

Steve

Edit: Just been out for a look, and taken pictures, outside of cupboard only,
inside there's a small white round sounder?? fitted by CI looking at the way it
has been done.

Edited by Gman 2020-09-08 6:08 PM
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 8 September 2020 6:53 PM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Thanks

I’m pretty sure the "small 1/2 inch round black thingy” is a Truma remote room temperature sensor and I provided photos of the part in my posting of 8 September 2020 2:05 PM above. It just pushes into a hole in (say) a piece of furniture-board and a cable is then connected to it from the other side of the board.

When the remote sensor is in place, from the outside it looks like a small domed black button. Recent sensors have “Truma” (or “Alde”) moulded into the dome, but (if I remember correctly) the dome of older versions had no name-marking on it.

The room temperature sensor for a Truma Trumatic C air/water heater was originally built into its rotating control switch. This complicated obtaining a satisfactory room temperature (as motorhome converters put the rotary control switch in unsuitable places) so Truma made available an optional remote sensor that could be installed in a more sensible position and (when fitted) overrode the sensor in the control switch. Eventually the room temperature sensor was deleted from the control switch and all Truma Trumatic C heaters (and current Combi heaters) from then on were marketed with the remote sensor ‘button’ and cabling kit.

As I said above, the Truma remote room temperature sensor is not designed to make a noise and (to the best of my knowledge) it cannot. You’ve discovered inside the cupboard something that looks like "a small white round sounder” and it seems probable that this is what is making the ‘alarm’ noise that the locker door switch triggers.

Posting files to this forum can bechallenging as there’s a 100KB maximum file size.

It’s covered in the posting of 22 August 2006 11:31 AM here

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Code-of-Conduct-and-User-Guidelines/Forum-User-Guide/Forums-FAQ/3930/

and more recently here

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Posting-Photos-/37941/
userGman
Posted: 8 September 2020 7:17 PM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 
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Posts: 54
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Location: Kippax, West Yorkshire. CI carioca 694


The Truma temp "thingy" in my 694 is above the hab door next to the control panel, the same one as in your picture, can't see why they would place it next to a hot air outlet. That said, hot air rises so why so high? Must be said, the heating in this M/H is fantastic.

Steve.

Edit: After yet another look, it's more like a hollow top hat bush fitted from the outside and it lines up with the sounder, to allow quite a lot of sound into the area behind the drivers seat, it cannot be ignored. (most exercise I've had in ages).
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 9 September 2020 7:13 AM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Truma’s guidance on installing the remote temperature sensor is as shown on the attached file.

The ‘norm’ is to locate the sensor above the habitation area’s entrance door next to the motorhome’s main control-panel (as on your Carioca 694) and - as you rightly say - it would be perverse to fit the sensor under the dinette table near a hot-air outlet. (Mind you, motorhome converters aren’t immune to perversity and I was reliably informed by Truma that, at one stage, Hymer used to fit the sensor beneath a cab seat.)

Which comes back to your diagnosis in your posting of 8 September 2020 5:43 PM above that the ‘alarm noise’ Paul’s Cipro 55 is producing is being triggered by a switch on the rear locker-door. I’m sure from what you’ve now said that this is correct and, if the alarm’s sounder had been installed inside the little under-table compartment in Paul’s motorhome, it would make perfect sense to fit a ‘sound conduit’ (the hollow top hat bush you’ve mentioned) that would channel the sound to the outside of the compartment.

Paul should now be able to do as you suggested originally and trigger the alarm at will by leaving the rear locker door open and running his motorhome’s motor. Assumng that test is positive, he can then check the condition of the switch and replace it if necessary.

(It’s unusual for a motorhome converter to go to the trouble of warning (as standard) that a locker door is open, though one might expect that a retro-fitted alarm system might do this - so it’s very useful to know that this has been a CI feature.)



(Sensor.png)



Attachments
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Attachments Sensor.png (65KB - 2 downloads)
userCritter
Posted: 9 September 2020 5:27 PM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 
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Location: CI Cipro 55 "top class", 06 reg, Fiat Ducato base


Ha ha thank you - I sometimes get acronym blind

(That's responding to the EHU answer). I was trying to think of something really complex and technical!

The alarm sounds with the ignition off, the door can be open or closed and so I am not convinced that it is to do with temperature, as someone said, why have a temperature thing inside a cupboard?

I will check the main locker, which we often leave open when we are by the MH. If that's all it takes to stop the noise I will be hornswoggled.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 10 September 2020 8:06 AM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Paul

When Steve’s (Gman’s) posting of 8 September 2020 7:17 PM had described the item that was making a noise in his 2009 CI Carioca 694 as "a hollow top hat bush fitted from the outside and it lines up with the sounder” and that a Truma remote room temperature sensor was located above his motorhome’s entrance door, there was no longer any reason to think that the item (and the alarm noise) might be temperature related.

The 2015 forum thread I mentioned above

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Hints-and-Tips/CI-Carioca-15/38425/#M463941

discussed a 2004 CI Carioca 15 Living and mentioned that there was a switch on the vehicle’s large rear locker exterior door and "a small black plastic round fitting protruding from the side facia at knee height” near the front table. Steve’s Carioca 694 has the locker door switch and has confirmed that the switch triggers a ‘sounder' if the locker door is open and his motorhome’s ignition is on.

As a rear-locker door switch was present on Steve’s 2009 Carioca 694 and the 2004 Carioca 15, and the latter had what sounds like your under-table small black diisc, it’s tempting to think your 2006 Cipro 55 will also have the door switch.

If a 'locker-door-open’ alarm is provided, it ought to sound only when the motorhome’s ignition is switched on - otherwise it would be sounding when the door was open when the motorhome was parked up and that would be illogical. If you can’t trigger the alarm experimentally, or there’s no switch on your motorhome’s door, or you cannot trace the wiring back from the alarm, I suggest you permanently disconnect the alarm to prevent it sounding, or insert in the wire that feeds the alarm an inconspicuous switch that is accessible from outside the under-table compartment so that you can easily disable the noise when it sounds.
userCritter
Posted: 14 September 2020 1:59 PM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 
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Location: CI Cipro 55 "top class", 06 reg, Fiat Ducato base


Thank you all for your guidance and suggestions, I had a good sort out this weekend and had a bit of a make and mend day on Saturday.

Steve (Gman) wins the virtual prize - It is an alarm attached to the external door of the under-bed locker.

It only sounds if the ignition is off, and the locker is open. I can only assume that the previous owner once had this broken into whilst they slept above. Can't think of any other reason for it.

Anyway, now I know that it is not a carbon monoxide, CO2 or other safety related alarm I have disconnected it. Can always reconnect if we park up somewhere dodgy.

usercoach2000
Posted: 14 September 2020 4:30 PM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 
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I have a Cipro 55 and it has the same alarm switch fitted on the locker door. I only works when the ignition is on. I always yhought it was factory fitted.
There are several alarms fitted on this model of vehicle and after 10 years, Have still not found them all but have heard them.
2 sound the same, the water level alarm and another that goes off intermittent when driving but have not pinned this one down yet.
I will have a look in the locked compartment to see if there is one in there that I have not noticed.

Clive.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 15 September 2020 9:00 AM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Critter - 2020-09-14 1:59 PM

...It only sounds if the ignition is off, and the locker is open. I can only assume that the previous owner once had this broken into whilst they slept above. Can't think of any other reason for it...



You have a 2006 CI Cipro 55. Coach2000 also has a 2006 CI Cipro 55 and Gman has a 2009 CI Carioca 694.

All three motorhomes have a switch on the rear locker-door and an alarm that sounds when that door is open. The locker-door switch was also mentioned in a 2015 forum thread (link earlier in this discussion) relating to a 2004 CI Carioca 15 Living model.

In his posting of 8 September 2020 5:43 PM above Gman described in some detail the small item through which the alarm noise was coming, said that what looked like a ’sounder’ was close to the inner end of that item and thought that the ‘look’ of the installation suggested that CI had fitted the item/sounder. So everything points to CI having (at one stage) fitted as standard on the rear locker door a switch intended to trigger an alarm inside the motorhome when the locker door was not closed.

I said above

"If a 'locker-door-open’ alarm is provided, it ought to sound only when the motorhome’s ignition is switched on - otherwise it would be sounding when the door was open when the motorhome was parked up and that would be illogical."

You’ve now said that the alarm on your motorhome ”...only sounds if the ignition is off, and the locker is open...”

This sounds odd to me for a CI-fitted arrangement as a) when your motorhome is parked with its ignition OFF, whenever the locker-door is opened the alarm will sound (presumably continuously), b) when your motorhome’s ignition is ON, the alarm will not sound, so the vehicle can be driven with the locker-door not properly closed, and c) if the alarm always sounded whenever the locker-door was opened when the motorhome’s ignition was OFF, I would have thought that the relationship of the alarm and locker-door would soon become apparent - and you’ve owned your Cipro for 7 years.

(I’ve no trouble imagining your motorhome being fitted before you owned it with an alarm system that can be ‘armed’ when the vehicle is parked with its ignition OFF and that has the rear locker-door protected by a switch that will trigger the alarm if that door is opened - but that seems to conflict with what Gman and Coach2000 have reported.)
userGman
Posted: 15 September 2020 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: Audible Alarm in Pump Compartment
 
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Location: Kippax, West Yorkshire. CI carioca 694


I think the main objective for the "alarm" is to warn that the locker door is open, and not to drive away with it open, as my 694 is a UK spec M/H (near side locker and hab door), I can only imagine the mess , chaos, and the embarrassment at the first right turn if I was to ignore the warning.

Steve.
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