andy mccord Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Hi All Having never owned an automatic car or motorhome I was just wondering how easy is it to get a motorhome up onto levelling ramps? Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Very easy I find. If there is any difficulty/concern I use the manual option. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 No problem at all except that I operate the brake with my left foot just to have a bit more control over preventing the van overshooting the end of the ramp. I do this instead of using the handbrake which is a bit of a stretch. When stopping the van at junctions on a hill I also left foot brake instead of using the handbrake as this makes it all much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmac Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Hi I changed from a Peugeot manual to a Mercedes auto both weighing about 4 tons and I think the auto is a little bit trickier. With the manual gearbox and clutch I had a bit more feel about when the clutch was going to bite and climb the blocks. With the auto never quite sure when the " clutch" would bite. My Mercedes motorhome has a torque converter not an automized manual clutch that Fiats use, perhaps there is a difference. You drive 200? miles forward and then 12/18 inches onto the ramps, auto is a no brainer for me. Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaven Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Just a few thoughts on automatic type gearboxes both on cars and motor homes. Doing most of the easy maintenance myself, I was always extremely cautious when driving my Skoda with a DSG gearbox onto ramps. There seems, sometimes, a point when carrying out this manoeuvre when the vehicle can stop, and to overcome the inertia one has to give the accelerator that little ‘extra’ prod. This prod can cause the vehicle to lurch forward and one has to be extremely careful to be handy with the brake to prevent overshooting. I’m not saying that this would necessarily be the case with an automatic motor home. It’s just an observation. After successfully completing a Scandinavian tour in company with other vans a few years back it was brought home to me after negotiating interminable and very steep fiord-side roads how the brakes on one or two of the automatic vans were suffering during long descents because, I guess, comparative lack of engine braking compared with that possible for manual boxes. There’s nothing wrong with auto boxes, I have one on my car and would never go back to a manual, but if you’re going to have one on a motor home you need in my opinion to make sure you have your brakes properly and comprehensively serviced at all times especially if undertaking a longish expedition on challenging roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 As regards the comment about descending hills with an automatic and the extra strain on the brakes you should note that it is always possible to override the automatic function and manually select a lower gear to provide more engine braking and control. A torque converter auto gearbox is much better at very slow speeds as they have a smoother creep function which is easier to control which is why I cover and operate the brake with my left foot when moving onto ramps as I get more control and safer operation than trying to use the handbrake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaven Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Don636 - 2018-10-13 8:54 AM As regards the comment about descending hills with an automatic and the extra strain on the brakes you should note that it is always possible to override the automatic function and manually select a lower gear to provide more engine braking and control. A torque converter auto gearbox is much better at very slow speeds as they have a smoother creep function which is easier to control which is why I cover and operate the brake with my left foot when moving onto ramps as I get more control and safer operation than trying to use the handbrake. Agreed on all points. I'm not sure if the Ducato gearbox is a torque convertor type? However i agree about using the manual selection of a lower ratio. It is possible that the vehicle(s) in question were "indifferently driven" (to quote the late Alan Clarke). Still an advocate of brake servicing prior to a jaunt in the mountains and fjords though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 You are absolutly right about getting the brakes looked at before a trip involving steep gradients. We were in the Cevennes area of France this year and we're coming down a long steep pass and I experienced brake fade for the first time. I was probably going a bit too fast, braked for a hairpin and the pedal went right down. Felt a bit hairy at the time but I took it much easier after that and made sure I went a bit slower, was in the lowest gear possible without thrashing the engine and only applied the brakes in short bursts to allow them time to cool off. The brakes are looked at each year but I have not had the fluid changed after 4 years so will definitely get that done next year. The garage reported that the discs were looking a bit corroded on the inside due to lack of use and recommended a change (after 12,000 miles!). Not sure if this is absolutely necessary as they don't look bad to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Blaven The “Comfort-Matic” transmission fitted to Fiat Ducatos is a robotised manual system https://www.fiatcamper.com/en/news/comfort-matic-gearbox as is the more complex, different-principle DSG transmission currently used on VW Transporters. The automatic transmission of the current Ford Transit, Iveco Daily and Mercedes Sprinter is the more ‘traditional’ type with a torque-converter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaven Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Don636 - 2018-10-13 10:46 AM You are absolutly right about getting the brakes looked at before a trip involving steep gradients. We were in the Cevennes area of France this year and we're coming down a long steep pass and I experienced brake fade for the first time. I was probably going a bit too fast, braked for a hairpin and the pedal went right down. Felt a bit hairy at the time but I took it much easier after that and made sure I went a bit slower, was in the lowest gear possible without thrashing the engine and only applied the brakes in short bursts to allow them time to cool off. The brakes are looked at each year but I have not had the fluid changed after 4 years so will definitely get that done next year. The garage reported that the discs were looking a bit corroded on the inside due to lack of use and recommended a change (after 12,000 miles!). Not sure if this is absolutely necessary as they don't look bad to me. Glad we’re agreed. The problem with disc brakes, especially the rears if you have them, is that they are not as heavily used as the twin-pot front ones, so the rotors are not as heavily ‘scraped’ by the pads, thus allowing pitting and rusting over time. A van in daily use does not suffer as much in this respect. I submit that many of our vans spend most of the year on a drive, or overwintering in a compound somewhere. Even if undercover in a draughty shed (as mine is), the process of corrosion still carries on. The clock mileage may be misleading in one’s expectations of brake rotor life, and inspection without dismantling the caliper can be difficult. Only you can make the decision whether to follow the garage recommendation, but definitely get the fluid changed. Sorry to bang on about brakes. I do get a bit obsessive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaven Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 For “dismantling the caliper”, read “removing the caliper”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Having just swapped a Mercedes auto for an Iveco auto, IMHO, the Merc was a better box. The Iveco has 8 gears, but an annoying (but safety) feature that if in auto, and accelerating downhill, touching the brake makes it change down the gears. This is overcome by slipping to manual, but then the auto box won't change down automatically. Early days yet, but the Merc didn't have that feature but was an older gearbox. BUT as to getting on and off ramps in auto, certainly not a problem, and I personally wouldn't have a manual box again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall_Mike Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Hi, We have a comfortmatic - out of choice I wouldn't have it and go for a manual box - however my left leg is pinned and plated following an accident and it's so much easier. There really isn't any other choice in the Adria range which we favour. As mentioned it has a clutch, a dual mass flywheel and an electronic brain instead of a left foot. Nothing fancy like selecting the next gear it thinks you might need It isn't the best and it throws the odd wobbly one from time to time. Saying that it pulls the van along adequately and does the job, although not always reliable, we've had electrical issues with ours in the past which were an absolute s** for the dealer to sort out, - fortunately it was under warranty, I would hate to have paid that bill. - Not sure about it's longevity, it might be OK since the gear changes are very gentle - and it is possible to burn out the clutch (So I hear). We met some Italians who laughed at us, they advised in Italy no same person buys a FIAT with an Auto gearbox. Possibly it's most annoying trait is a horrible lag when pulling away although you learn technique's to deal with that. It is nowhere near as good as a decent car auto box with a torque converter. Saying all this - getting it on the ramps is simple, - I generally prefer to reverse on, - seems to give a better level of control and I can put the van on whatever "step" on the ramp as required. - Driving on forwards is a little more aggressive and it is possible to drive off the back end of the ramp. Bearing in mind there is a clutch, I think reversing on is less stressful and needs less slip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Tall_Mike - 2018-10-15 11:13 AM Hi, We have a comfortmatic - out of choice I wouldn't have it and go for a manual box......... .........Possibly it's most annoying trait is a horrible lag when pulling away although you learn technique's to deal with that. It is nowhere near as good as a decent car auto box with a torque converter. Bearing in mind there is a clutch, I think reversing on is less stressful and needs less slip. I do agree.....although I had our Hymer (2.3 150bhp) remapped and boy what a difference that made. Pulling up gradients without the need to change down, pulling more smoothly away from roundabouts etc. It really was a different drive altogether. I would certainly consider this in future to help overcome the 'foibles' of the Comfortmatic box. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 There are a lot of comments about the Comfortmatic gearbox lethargy off the line. I would agree that it is no traffic lights hero but I have never really found this to be a problem. I either wait for a suitable slot in the traffic (does not usually cause any undue delay) or, if necessary, just go for it and if someone coming my way has to back off a bit and wait for me to get up to speed then so be it, I am not unduly worried about slowing them down a bit. Heavy goods vehicles do this all the time and it does not bother them does it. A lot of fuss over nothing in my opinion. In my opinion the benefit of the auto function and not having to use a clutch far, far outweighs any small operational quirks. You do have to override the auto function at times to maintain efficient progress, such as going uphill or on very winding or hilly routes but this is no hassle whatsoever as it simply involves moving the gearstick but with no clutch hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 One further point to note is that I have the 150bhp engine so the additional power and torque might suit the Comfortmatic better. Also, after some 10,000 miles plus the engine has really loosened up and is noticeably more punchy and smooth with the gearbox less inclined to change down on hills as it was when new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall_Mike Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Sounds good. We have a friend with a new Adria Coral - 150 bhp with comfortmatic on euro 6, - and we are actually in the process of buying similar model ,hoping we don't see the same problem It has been reported via MMM, I think on here - The new engine with the comfortmatic seems to hunt, on any kind of a hill it changes up and down many times before it settles. - Our friend has exactly this issue. He's rightly worried that it's going to lead to early transmission wear. As far as I can tell, it's only euro 6 vans with comfortmatic, whether it's only the 150 or 130 bhp models not sure, - I guess having it mapped might resolve the issue? Even overriding the thing doesn't seem to do it, it simply drops back to it's behavior.again Whether the newer vans need some kind of better software mapping from FIAT to suit the engine, weight of the van and bhp? Not sure if any of have experienced this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I have not experienced any real issue with the gearbox hunting up and down on a hill but it has, on occasion, changed down, picked up speed, changed up, lost power then changed down again. You can manually override whilst in auto made it by forcing an earlier down change by simply nudging the gearstick but it will just change again if it feels it needs to. To avoid this happening you need to push the stick to the left into fulltime manual mode then it should retain the gear you select and not change, unless it feels the engine is under too much stress and will change anyway. This had not happened much but, in any case, this issue has disappeared all together as the engine has loosened up and it seems to have gotten stronger and can hold the speed more easily on hills. You can also use the Up function which is for use on hilly roads and it holds onto the lower years a bit longer I think to lessen the hunting up and down issue. It does work to an extent but if it gets really hilly and winding I prefer to go into full manual mode then I can determine what gear to be in. The gearbox is good but it can't see the road ahead and is not lightening fast to react to changes in load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I'm with Don636 especially checking brake maintenance regarding steep hills which you should really grasp fully before you meet one for it can be frightening as it was for me ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 My experience of the Comfortmatic on a 150ps Euro 5 engine was not generally joyous. For getting onto ramps, however, I did not have a problem. An assistant observer is, IMO, essential! It is not possible to predict the point at which the electronics will decide to engage the clutch, and when it does so the clutch is fully (quite smoothly, though quickly) engaged once it deems engine power adequate. It is designed to drive away, not to advance by inches. Persuading the control module to creep while gently slipping the clutch was not reliably attainable. The workaround I adopted was to drive straight up to the top of the ramp, and then do the levelling on the brakes while sliding back down. Don't place the ramps in direct contact with the tyres, but a little ahead of them, so that the initial lurch into motion takes place before the tyres hit the ramp. Your assistant needs to yell "stop" just before you get to the top - so that your reaction delay to that command does not take you over the edge. It took a few trial shots to get this right, but thereafter became a reasonably straightforward routine. It matters not whether ramping in 1st or reverse, the same works. If you find you've stopped short, don't try to advance, but come off the ramps and start again from scratch. Much the same can be said of trying to move steadily forward in heavy traffic, especially uphill. Leave a reasonable gap between you and the vehicle in front as the van will move forward quite abruptly once it starts off, with the result that you'll need to brake quite sharply to cool it's ardour as it seeks to mate! Doesn't make for smooth progress! Yes, there is a long lag between first and second on drive away - which can make getting onto busy roundabouts a bit breathtaking. :-) Yes, give the engine 10,000 plus miles to loosen, and the box/engine relationship improves, but the 1 - 2 lag, and the inappropriate gear changes do not entirely disappear. Its problem is that it can't anticipate/understand the difference between one's reasons for depressing/releasing the accelerator. Left to itself it will hang onto a high gear on a hill to the point at which it has slowed appreciably before it changes down. The changes are reasonably quick and smooth (except 1 to 2), but changing down on a hill needs to be ahead of the (torque) curve, and the Comfortmatic lags. It would eventually get into a lower gear, losing further speed on the change, not infrequently having to drop a further cog to catch up with itself. It can be "nudged" into an early change down, but that quite often results in a change back up as it decides it was doing OK! The solution to most of these problems is simply to stick it in manual, and decide for it when it is to change. But then, it raises the question of why one paid the extra for the auto? Kick down is available on full depression of the accelerator, but it'll think about it before changing down, so if wanting to overtake it is not the best approach. Ditto the "nudge" into a lower gear as, unless this is immediately followed by full acceleration, it will change back up just when you want maximum progress. Its other trick is on steeper, twisting, uphill roads where, as one lifts off the accelerator on approach to a bend, it promptly upshifts just at the point one needs it to downshift to accelerate through the bend. So, back to manual. Obviously, all this depends considerably on where one is driving. On motorways, where gradients are generally engineered away, and gear changes consequently relatively infrequent, it is mostly fine, but again, one begins to wonder why one went for the extra cost and complexity of the Comfortmatic box. If one has physical reasons for wanting (needing?) an auto, the choices are very limited and the Comfortmatic does it job OK, providing one recognises its limitations and is prepared to assume control when conditions fall outside it's comfort(matic) zone. I'm now back to a manual Ducato which is far more to my liking. The gear change is a bit "notchy", particularly 4 to 5 (but only just over 3,000 miles to date, and seems to be improving), but the clutch is a smooth delight (forward or reverse) and, for our 3.5 tonne Maxi based van (which I suspect has a lower final drive ratio), the 130PS engine is absolutely fine. Hope this may help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I do not seem to have had the same issues as Brian has had with the operation of the Comfortmatic gearbox. I find I can ease up onto a set of ramps without any problem by operating the brake with my left foot thus removing any concerns about going too quickly. I am effectively using the brake for control instead of the clutch. If I open the drivers door I can look down and see the wheel going onto the ramp so do not find I need an assistant. Brian makes some good points about the operation of the Comfortmatic, same as I have, but I don't find this to be a problem as you simply put it into manual. Brian then asks what is the point of an auto if you need to override it. Autos have always had an ability to manually select gears when you want, or need, to take more control. This does not make them a waste of time as the main advantage is that you don't have to operate a clutch. I actually like driving on winding country roads using the manual mode as feels more involving when in the mood. The Comfortmatic gearbox operates brilliantly for 90-95% of the time and acceptably for the rest of the time and makes the whole process of driving a large commercial vehicle much smoother and more relaxing. I would not have a van without it and it is worth every penny. I also drive a Volvo V90 with an 8 speed torque converter box, which is in a different league, but I still drive it in manual mode on winding country roads when the mood takes me and I am pressing on - more fun. I am not anti manual gearboxes and also drive a Mazda MX5 where an auto would be a definite no-no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall_Mike Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Good posts - Thanks. I agree that with the ramps, I wind down the drivers window, I can then see what's going on - it's much easier to ramp on the drivers side or under the front, rather than under the rear, or passenger side. I find it easier to drive up in one go to the required level on the ramp rather than inching up the ramp which is nearly impossible, if I miss the level it's better to come right off and do it again. - fully agree about using the brake almost as a clutch, requires some swift footwork. Sometimes it's easier to drive to the top level and let the van roll back slightly to reach the required position although i,ve done this so many times now it comes naturally, don't even think about it. My very first attempt at this was a disaster, I drove right off the top and the ramp became wedged under the van, - not wanting to damage either van or ramp I needed to dig the ramp out, however experience leads to perfection. The gearbox does get better with mileage, - our van is up to about 11k miles now and particularly on A roads or motorways it's fine, - the pulling away piece is better than it was, the trick is to pull away let it get to 2nd, and then boot it, - this can be done smoothly and quickly and the van goes, - or to rev it a little against the handbrake, - not ideal for the handbrake or clutch but I guess a little won,t do too much harm. At motorway speeds - say 50mph, there is very limited kick down if you want to pull out to go around a truck for example - truly know that the van isn't a racer, it's never meant for that. 90% of the time it's OK, 10% of the time the comfortmatic is a pain, kind of think that the pleasure in motor homing is arriving at beautiful spots rather than getting from A to B which is a tolerable experience but not great. As mentioned, I have a medical issue following an accident with my left leg - and the key feature is "No clutch" - it certainly provides that. I don't really use the overrides, - know it's there and probably should get more used to it. My "other" vehicle is a Jag XKR, it has a 6 speed torque converter gearbox with normal and Sports dynamic mode, - it also has "flappy paddles" that you can engage or disengage at will, - clearly a very different beast however that is a proper auto gearbox - the difference in gearboxes is like chalk and cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy mccord Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Many thanks for the replies, the van I was particularly interested in is the Chausson Titanium Ford Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmac Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Hi as I said previously my motorhome has a torque converter auto gearbox, I was so impressed with it I swapped my manual Ford Focus for an automatic Ford Focus. The focus has a twin clutch six speed gearbox which I assume is robotised similar to the Fiat comfomatic. Both vehicles drive well the motorhome is marginally smoother. Starting from a standstill is no problem, the slight drawback with the car is that you are approaching a junction/roundabout at a slow speed and you think if I am quick I have time to get out/across the computer takes a second or so to decide wether it needs to drop a gear or not to accelerate and leaves you a bit closer to the oncoming traffic than you had originally thought. I don't know how the car could cope with levelling blocks but has a strong enough "creep" to cope with drop curbs to cross pavements onto the drive. Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barcobird Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 I have the comfortatic box and find it very easy generally. Sometimes it's been a pain up onto the blocks and on a couple of occasions the front wheel has spun the block out ! As mentioned in other posts left foot braking us needed. You will always have more control with a manual and clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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