aandy Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I have been offered a good deal on a 2009 Nuevo 2, but am a bit concerned at the filling system for the water tank. From what I can find in old posts on here and elsewhere it seems to be very slow to fill (one said it took an hour to fill the tank despite a good flow from the supply), and possibly problematic where it is not possible to attach a hose to a tap. Some systems also appear to rely on an integral pump and solenoid operated valve, which seems an unneccessary complication and just something else to go wrong. The obvious solution would be to replace it with a conventional filler, but I understand that is not a viable option. As I often find myself filling from a remote tap or bowser using a watering can, a percussion tap which has to be held down to maintain the flow, or an aire with a timer on the born, I am concerned that might be a problem. On the other hand, lots of 'vans seem to have similar systems and their owners obvioulsy manage, so perhaps I am being over cautious. If anyone has experience of this sort of system it would be helpful to know whether it does present significant problems, and any tricks for getting round them. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Don't know about your van layout, but is the tank accessible from inside the van? Ours is , as it is under the dinette seat, so we can (and do sometimes) fill from inside directly into the tank, very quick, and handy when filling from containers. PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky7 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I have a 2012 Nuevo II and have just had a conventional type (ie. just unscrew cap & stick a hose in or use watering can) of water filling system fitted for £190.00 at Auto-Sleepers in Willesley. They did a nice, neat job. This has revolutionised filling the tank at aires in France and other places where there are few taps. Before this, I had to squat on was what often the only available tap for hours, attracting the wroth of French motorhome owners who had never seen anything as ridiculous as the AS system (known as 'daft' on the AS owners forum). I think AS should give a big discount to have the sensible system installed (AS do not agree!), but it all depends on the type of sites you are going to use. If taps are always likely to be plentiful, then save your money & stick with the 'daft' system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Thanks chaps. I didn't think to look for inside access and I don't really want to go back to the dealer until I have made a decision (if only because it's a 100 mile round trip). From what I remember, however, I don't think it is. I will be using aires and stellplatz quite a lot, so it seems the standard system will be too much of a pain. Encouraging that it can be changed, however, so perhaps I can persuade the dealer to do it. If not, it sounds as though £200 and a trip to the Cotswolds is well worth it. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Sparky7 - 2015-07-23 10:15 AM I have a 2012 Nuevo II and have just had a conventional type (ie. just unscrew cap & stick a hose in or use watering can) of water filling system fitted for £190.00 at Auto-Sleepers in Willesley. They did a nice, neat job. This has revolutionised filling the tank at aires in France and other places where there are few taps. Before this, I had to squat on was what often the only available tap for hours, attracting the wroth of French motorhome owners who had never seen anything as ridiculous as the AS system (known as 'daft' on the AS owners forum). I think AS should give a big discount to have the sensible system installed (AS do not agree!), but it all depends on the type of sites you are going to use. If taps are always likely to be plentiful, then save your money & stick with the 'daft' system. I'm a bit confused, not altogether unusual. What is this daft system of which you speak? If you're connected to a tap for ages, what's on the other end that slows up the filling process? I have a 2007 Autosleeper Inca which just has the normal hole to stick a hose into, did they start fitting something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I had an Autosleeper panel van with this system and although cannot see the need for it never really a problem. As well as a long hose and the usual assortment of tap connectors I had a short hose with a pump attached. I could fill from a ten litre container we use for drinking water if I wished using this short hose and pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chudders Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I have an A-S Cotswold which only had the Whale filling system. It worked fine and does not take a long time to pump water in from an external tank using the supplied pump gizmo. I did however have the perhaps more conventional system fitted by A-S last week so that I had a choice and could fill with a watering can etc if I needed to. It was indeed £190 and took them about 2 hours. (We went to the pub up the road while they did it.) Very pleased with the job, very neat inside and out. I have now used both in different circumstances, it just gives me the choice. One advantage of the whale system is that it shuts off when the inside tank is full, even if there is still water in the external container you use. The other system gives you more choice of filling systems. I am pleased that I have both systems. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Our Executive has tyhis bloomin daft Whale filling system and I have improved the flow on it by a few simple steps. Remove the pressure limiting valve (and wiring) that sits between the filler inlet and the tank and replace it with a small section of rigid tube (and two jubilee clips) and that helps the flow. Take apart the blue block that plugs into the outside filler socket and remove the non return valve as that helps as well. Whilst it is apart replace the soft blue hose that collapses and restricts the flow when it bends under it's own weight with either a normal hose (and jubilee clip) of whatever length you wish or, as I did, a short length of garden hose connected to a Hozelock connector which in turn I connect to whatever length of hose I need to reach the tap. There is not much room for a jubilee clip in the blue block and it is fiddly to fit but it can be done! It's not perfect and not as good as the old fashioned simplicity of a wide filler and wide hose to the tank but I now fill my 100 litre tank in about 7 mins at UK mains pressure. Progress eh!! Hope this makes sense to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmold Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 One point regularly forgotten with this system is that the control panel must be switched on (the solenoid can't open to allow filling unless it gets power). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 paulmold - 2015-07-23 11:48 AM One point regularly forgotten with this system is that the control panel must be switched on (the solenoid can't open to allow filling unless it gets power). Good point - but not if you take the wretched flow reducing obstructive thing out it doesn't!! And why would you need power to fill your water tank - unless pumping it up from a container - which you can still do with the conventional filler? I accept that some folks might like to do it that way when sited but for the normal filling of a 100 litres plus tank directly from a tap the Whale system is spectacularly unfit for purpose. What were they thinking of when they fitted it! BEFORE buying any van so equiped make sure you get one of these with it because cheap they are not! http://www.whalepumps.com/rv/product.aspx?Category_ID=10009&Product_ID=11&FriendlyID=Aquasource-Mains. But get rid of the useless flat blue hose that will not bend or curve without kinks and thus blocks the flow unless fully extended in a straight line and replace with a 5/8" bore common or garden hose. In fact all you really need is the blue 'easyfit' plug to connect to the van and add your own hose and fittings - having first removed the non return valve from the plug block! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Glad I asked. I thought at first that it could not be as bad as I had been given to believe as no manufacturer would fit such an abomination. Obviously it is and they do. Can't help wondering why, or what 'problem' it is supposed to overcome. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brabander Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I had a Bailey with the Whale system. When the water pressure on the camp site was low the system took forever to fill. A theoretical advantage was that the internal pump would switch off when the tank was full. In my motorhome this was extremely untrustworthy as the level switches were not very reliable. I was told by the dealer that was probably caused by air trapped in the tube which housed the level sensors. I now have a motorhome with a conventional water system. Good riddance to a system which is totally unsuitable for motorhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 aandy - 2015-07-23 8:31 PM Glad I asked. I thought at first that it could not be as bad as I had been given to believe as no manufacturer would fit such an abomination. Obviously it is and they do. Can't help wondering why, or what 'problem' it is supposed to overcome. Andy This link is to a long 2012 discussion about this type of water-filling system http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=12&TopicID=277490&PagePosition=1&ThreadPage=1&ReturnPage=Search&search=&searchIn= The systems are commonly fitted to caravans and might well be attractive to people converting from a caravan to a motorhome, or to motorhome owners who use their vehicles in a ‘caravanning manner’. The systems do offer greater versatility than the filler-hole-in-the-bodywork arrangement, but filling a large-capacity water tank may well take a long time. As far as I’m aware only UK manufacturers have chosen to install the Whale/Truma systems in motorhomes and I understand that Auto-Sleepers now takes a best-of-both-worlds approach and fits the Whale system AND a hole-in-the-bodywork filler to current models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanista Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Any motorhome designer/manufacturer fitting this system should seriously consider having their head felt. It shows total ignorance of the way their customers use their vehicles, and of course they will be handing business to the competition. It must also add to the build cost. We have a Bailey but only bought it when we saw one could easily fill the tank by lifting the trap in the floor, giving easy access to the tank by unscrewing the large lid. If this option is possible to Autosleeper owners I suggest they give it a try. 8-) Ron Pharo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron. Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Having suffered having this system, before having it adapted, my only comment is why Auto-Sleeper continue to fit it despite the weight of owner angst against it over a long period. Its like sticking two fingers up to their customers. The number who head back to Willersley for the cure must be a nice little earner though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Ron This is a very recent ‘fresh water filler’ discussion on the Auto-Sleepers Owners Forum http://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t14753-fresh-water-filler The discussion indicates that some A-S owners loathe the Whale system so much that they have had a conventional water-filler fitted, and it’s mentioned that A-S now fits both types of filler to some (all?) models. Conversely, other A-S owners appear to adore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron. Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Derek The recent Owners Forum discussion is but one that has been repeated over the years. In practise the only people I have found in favour of it are those that have never used the conventional system. Let me put it this way. With the Whale system you need a power source, a filler pump, associated electrical wiring - and a thick skin to ignore the ever lengthening queue behind you. With the conventional system you just need - gravity. Madness. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 When we were looking to change MHs a few years ago we considered a AS PVC and one of the reasons we discounted it then was because of this stupid system - we use aires and wild camp so having to 'pump' water in etc was a total no-no for us. I do find it extortionate that AS are charging £190 to put in what they should have in the first place! If your MH isn't under warranty then I'd just see if a local MH workshop could fit an extra 'normal' filler to the tank, or replace the existing one - it can't possibly be that difficult and certainly something that I'd consider doing as a DIY fix if really necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 ron. - 2015-07-27 9:09 PM Derek The recent Owners Forum discussion is but one that has been repeated over the years. In practise the only people I have found in favour of it are those that have never used the conventional system. Let me put it this way. With the Whale system you need a power source, a filler pump, associated electrical wiring - and a thick skin to ignore the ever lengthening queue behind you. With the conventional system you just need - gravity. Madness. Ron My understanding is that Whale’s “Aquasource” product does not require a power source, filler-pump, etc. - it’s essentially a conventional 7.5m-long flat hose (with an integrated water-pressure regulator) that connects to a mains water-tap at one end and the leisure-vehicle’s Whale socket at the other. Having said that, it’s plain that what is apparently a simple system that ought to work reasonably well can still result in very slow tank filling due to the components Tracker has removed/modified on his A-S Executive. I wouldn’t want this type of system on any motorhome I owned but (as I said earlier) some people might find it attractive. That A-S and other UK motorhome manufacturers have persisted in fitting the Whale system suggests that buyers don’t dislike it as much as is often claimed. Adapting a motorhome with a Whale-type system so that water filling can be carried out ‘conventionally’ has been discussed in the past. How easy it would be to do would depend on the motorhome’s design and whether the objective was to dispense with the Whale system completely or add a separate conventional filling point. In either case a £190 charge for a non-DIY installation does not seem excessive to me given present-day labour charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 As I explained, those few simple modifications at no cost (assuming you already have a proper hose to use) make the system acceptable as my 100 litre tank now fills from empty in about 7 minutes. In the real world it is rarely empty when we top it up and there is generally more than enough time to empty the grey waste and empty and clean the loo cassette while the tap fills the tank and on that basis I feel no need to cut another hole for another filler or even worse, pay some one else to do it for me. Perfect it ain't - liveable with it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron. Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-07-28 8:37 AM ron. - 2015-07-27 9:09 PM Derek The recent Owners Forum discussion is but one that has been repeated over the years. In practise the only people I have found in favour of it are those that have never used the conventional system. Let me put it this way. With the Whale system you need a power source, a filler pump, associated electrical wiring - and a thick skin to ignore the ever lengthening queue behind you. With the conventional system you just need - gravity. Madness. Ron My understanding is that Whale’s “Aquasource” product does not require a power source, filler-pump, etc. - it’s essentially a conventional 7.5m-long flat hose (with an integrated water-pressure regulator) that connects to a mains water-tap at one end and the leisure-vehicle’s Whale socket at the other. As others have pointed out the Whale system does indeed need a power source to work, from either a tap feed or from a container. How else are you going to raise water from a container to the infill point? You cannot just tip the water in as normal due to the design at the receiving end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron. Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-07-28 8:37 AM ron. - 2015-07-27 9:09 PM Derek The recent Owners Forum discussion is but one that has been repeated over the years. In practise the only people I have found in favour of it are those that have never used the conventional system. Let me put it this way. With the Whale system you need a power source, a filler pump, associated electrical wiring - and a thick skin to ignore the ever lengthening queue behind you. With the conventional system you just need - gravity. Madness. Ron My understanding is that Whale’s “Aquasource” product does not require a power source, filler-pump, etc. - it’s essentially a conventional 7.5m-long flat hose (with an integrated water-pressure regulator) that connects to a mains water-tap at one end and the leisure-vehicle’s Whale socket at the other. As others have pointed out the Whale system does indeed need a power source to work, from either a tap feed or from a container. How else are you going to raise water from a container to the infill point? You cannot just tip the water in as normal due to the design at the receiving end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 ron. - 2015-07-29 11:45 AM As others have pointed out the Whale system does indeed need a power source to work, from either a tap feed or from a container. How else are you going to raise water from a container to the infill point? You cannot just tip the water in as normal due to the design at the receiving end. Of course it would need a 12 volt power source if you are going to pump water from one container to another using a 12 volt pump. It does NOT need any power source to fill with a hose as the tap water pressure does the work, but you will need to have the van 12 volt system switched on to open the pressure release valve - unless you remove it - plus you will need the flat hose fully extended with no sharp bends or kinks or the water will not flow. The two filling alternatives are not the same - although both are seriously flawed! http://www.whalepumps.com/rv/product.aspx?Category_ID=10009&Product_ID=11&FriendlyID=Aquasource-Mains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brabander Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 There seems to be come confusion regarding the Whale system. As I mentioned before I had a Bailey motorhome with this system until July last year and I have VERY little good to report regarding its practicality in a motorhome (in a caravan it may be fantastic!). 1. Due to the pressure loss in the fill regulator and the flat hose a considerable water pressure is required to obtain a decent water flow. 2. Some camp sites have very moderate water pressures and in this those locations I have found that it could take 30 minutes+ to fill a half full tank. That is totally unacceptable on busy camp sites. 3. I partly resolved the problem by purchasing an additional Whale fill adapter and fitting this to a normal round hose. 4. To fill the water tank 12Vdc power is needed to operate the regulator valve. 5. One of the proclaimed advantages of the system was that the system was automatic and could not over fill a water tank as when the water level reached the high level switch it would close the fill regulator valve. In my Bailey that system was totally unreliable, over 50% of the time my tank would over flow due to the unreliability of the level switches. 6. Worse still the Bailey/Whale system was arranged in such a way that the water pressure pump would not operate when the water level switches detected low water level. This happened me during a trip when I had no pressurised water at all. In the end I had to re-wire the water supply system so that the pump supply by-passed the water level switches. This was when my motorhome was only a few months old but to far from a Bailey dealer to fix it. 7. I was told by the dealer that in the Bailey system the tank pump is "two way" ie it operates as a suction pump when filling the tank and "pressurises" the water system when delivering water to the taps. I am not sure that is correct. If this was correct the tank should be capable of being filled from taps with very low water pressure. The Whale system is a totally ridiculous system for motorhomes and if AS and Bailey still fit this system today this indicates little common sense in their engineering departments. NB I use a Whale external pump and have other Whale products, I have no problems with their product quality but this system is totally unsuitable for motorhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron. Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Tracker - 2015-07-29 12:27 It does NOT need any power source to fill with a hose as the tap water pressure does the work, but you will need to have the van 12 volt system switched on to open the pressure release valve As far as I am concerned an electrical connection equals a power source! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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