chickster123 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Hello we bought a Auto trail 610 SE 18 plate about 13 weeks ago and after it had been on the drive for a hour we had water coming from the fresh water tank ,it seems that the inspection cap had been cross threaded so not a good start, I filled the water tank up on Thursday just gone 16/8 so we could have our first trip away , We got to the pub stop and did not use any water until Sat 18/8 and then only for washing and making coffee ,I noticed that the water tank bars were only on 2 instead of 5 ,so we then moved to a different pub stop and in the afternoon the landlord let us fill up with water but has soon as it filled up it began to pour out from what i thought was the overflow pipes and the bars went back down to 2 and the red light came on so something was not right as I said this 610 SE is only 13 weeks old is there something i have missed because this cannot be right , Has anybody else had water issues thanks Neil. : :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Neil, water tank 'measuring' rods are notoriously pathetic....our two swidft S weren't very good....our two Carthagos have been great, both spot on.... I believe that on certain AS vans, the water fill is stopped when the tank is 'full'...the problem is the thing to measure 'full' is hopeless and once it says full, it's full....even when it's nearly empty.... these things can be cleaned (wine vinegar or proprietry products) but they will fail, again and again... soon, you will get used to how long a full tank lasts, same with waste tank and can judge yourself without reliance on these useless things.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Back to basics; are you sure that both the freshwater drain tap and the water heater drain valve are both closed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickster123 Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 Thank you for your comments , I thought that I was doing something wrong. Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickster123 Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 I can see only a yellow tap for Drain down but I have looked for another tap but to no avail where will it be Thanks. Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Not at all sure about location(s) on an Autotrail van conversion. Looking at older manuals it may also be that they don't fit a frost protection valve/separate drain valve for the Combi heater. (This, IMO, is bad practice, and I've never had a van without one, but they may get away with it if the geometry of the water system is simple) There will (should) be a fresh water tank drain somewhere in or close to the water tank, and also a manual drain or automatic frost valve near the heater if fitted. The yellow "tap" (is it a lever?) could be either if both drains are fitted and the heater one is manual; if it is a lever, it should be horizontal to close. You may have to wait for another Autotrail owner to respond on whether or not there are two taps and the location. FWIW, the V-line manuals I can find, though they are otherwise singularly uninformative, all hold the following text: To Drain Off • Open the drain valve on the fresh water tank to ensure it is fully empty. • Open the drain valve on the waste tank to ensure it is fully empty, (only drain into a suitable container). • Open all taps inside the vehicle and leave open. • Open the drain valve inside the vehicle to empty the water heater and empty the pipe work inside the vehicle. .... ...which implies there are two drain points in the fresh water system, one in the pipework and one near the tank. My suspicion would be that the yellow "tap", if it is a lever, is a manual drain for the pipework and heater, and that there is another drain at/near the tank. It's by no means a given that this will resolve your issue, but I would at least first try to find both, and ensure they are both closed, before chasing other possible causes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plwsm2000 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Not an Autotrail, but my tank has a valve that when open, will drain off the tank and only leave 50ltrs. If you try filling to the brim, it will just overflow back to 50ltrs. Does your tank have one of these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 The Autotrails don't have a "travel" water allowance, MIRO is quoted with empty tanks, so the dual-level drain-down capability is unlikely to be present. In any case, on many/most implementations, this is implemented through the fresh water drain tap/valve having two positions, and I'm not sure that has been located yet. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Neil, It sounds to me like you are losing the water whilst driving in which case the pump will be turned off and the yellow drain valve will have no bearing on whether you are losing water or not. I would hazard a guess you have a plumbing issue with either the fill hose or more likely the pick up pipe which runs from the lowest point on the tank up to the water pump. Can you crawl underneath and watch where the water is leaking from whilst trying to fill the tank with a hose? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 The 2018 Auto-Trail Owner’s Handbook for ‘compact’ motorhomes is here https://www.auto-trail.co.uk/assets/downloads/files/3c199835eef8d356fd518417bedc5e5fa3986a92.pdf It seems that a Truma “Combi” heater is fitted and (based on the “Winter Laying up” guidance on Page 48) that this heater is drained via a manually-operated drain-valve within the motorhome as Robinhood has surmised. This will almost certainly be the “yellow tap” Neil has located and (as advised on Page 33) that tap’s lever needs to be in its horizontal (ie. closed) position at all times except when the heater and water-system pipework are to be drained. There will be external taps beneath the motorhome to drain the fresh-water tank and the waste-water tank (see picture on Page 11) and, if the fresh-water tank’s drain tap is not properly closed, attempting to fill that tank will cause water to pour out under the vehicle. Neil was evidently able to fill the fresh-water tank at home and one might reasonably expect that, if the tank’s external drain-tap had not been closed, he would have noticed the large pool of water forming beneath the motorhome. It is possible to lose a lot of water from a full fresh-water tank while travelling, if the screw-in cap of the water filling-point does not seal properly. My Hobby motorhome inexplicably did this to begin with and the reason why only became apparent when I noticed ‘water marks’ on the motorhome’s bodywork running backwards from the filling-point. Some tanks will also partially empty themselves through their overflow when travelling, and it has been known for tanks to siphon their contents through an open internal drain-tap even when the water-pump is not running. I’d go back to Square One - drain the complete water-system - close the internal and external drain taps - fully refill the fresh-water tank and the heater, checking to make sure no water is emerging beneath the vehicle (or inside the vehicle!!) At least then Neil would know the tank and the heater + water-system were full and could then check whether the water contents-gauge was reading correctly at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickster123 Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 Thank you ,I have just spoken to Autotrail and they think it could be a sensor problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickster123 Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 No i do not think so , once full it shows 5 bars and within 10 mins 2 /3 bars so hoping it is a sensor problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickster123 Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 The only tap I Can see is the yellow Drain down one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickster123 Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 No i do not think that I am losing much water whilst Driving I have been told That it could be a faulty sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickster123 Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 It will be going back to The Garage as it is only 3 months from being out of the Show room Thanks.Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-08-20 1:59 PM Some tanks will also partially empty themselves through their overflow when travelling, and it has been known for tanks to siphon their contents through an open internal drain-tap even when the water-pump is not running. ...I've been out for a walk, but this is a point I was going to make to Keith (I've seen it happen). Nonetheless, as Neil has found the "yellow tap" I'm making a leap of faith that he has ensured that this is closed, and thus isn't a major suspect. He does not, however, appear to have found the tank drain tap, and until this is located and eliminated as a cause, I wouldn't move on further. As already said, the Autotrail manuals don't help much, but I'm assuming (from various info and the location of the filler) that the fresh-water tank is underslung. The drain tap is thus likely to be directly in the side of the tank, or, if Autotrail have followed past practice, it will be on the end of a hose which is in the side of the tank, with the tap clipped up somewhere behind the bodywork. It is this last possibility that interests me, since, if the tap is (even partially) open but its "parked" position is below the base of the tank (full drain-down only being achieved by unclipping and dropping the hose) then it would be quite possible to fill the tank less than full, have it overflow before its nominal capacity, but retain some whilst travelling. It wouldn't explain how Neil managed to ever fully fill the tank, but I'm not sure that he has absolutely confirmed that. The key starting point is to eliminate issues with the two designed drain points, before looking for further problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickster123 Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 Thank you but I have had enough Autotrail can sort it out. Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 That's fine (and my post should have referred to the "parked" position being above the base of the tank, anyway. :-S Do let us know as and when you get it sorted, however. I hate an unsolved mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickster123 Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 No problem. Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickster123 Posted September 20, 2018 Author Share Posted September 20, 2018 Hi , I took the Motor home to the Dealers they cannot find a problem with the sensors , when they filled it up it went to the top light and then dropped one , so it looks as if it must only hold 80% of its capacity , we will try it on a few more trips as there does not seem much they can do except change the sensor but this one is working , I will keep a eye on it Thanks. Neil. :-S :-S :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 My Rapido motorhome (and the previous Hobby) has a probe-type sensor unit for the fresh-water tank. The shortest probe is very short and, after the tank has been completely filled, if just a few litres of water are drawn off so that the end of the shortest probe becomes exposed, the gauge on the control-panel drops to its next lower reading. It’s just a characteristic of the system and, as long as the gauge provides sensible decreasing read-outs as the amount of water in the tank falls, that’s fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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