Spadge Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Browsing through my MOT pass brake test figures I see they give individual Axle weights. Does anyone know how accurate these figures are compared to a weighbridge. Thanks in anticipation ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Those weight figures are for what maximum weight you are allowed on each axle. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spadge Posted September 6, 2014 Author Share Posted September 6, 2014 Thanks for the reply nowtelse2do, however I'm confused now ! The vehicle MOT reads 1968 kg rear axle , 1518 kg front. The vehicle plate reads 2600kg rear & 1800kg front. I'm surely not allowed 1968kg on the rear axle ? Am I missing something ? Is my interpretation wrong ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Spadge - 2014-09-06 4:18 PM Thanks for the reply nowtelse2do, however I'm confused now ! The vehicle MOT reads 1968 kg rear axle , 1518 kg front. The vehicle plate reads 2600kg rear & 1800kg front. I'm surely not allowed 1968kg on the rear axle ? Am I missing something ? Is my interpretation wrong ? I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure that you're allowed 2600 on your rear axle and 1800 on the front. The MOT weights will be the current weight but of course it wouldn't have been fully loaded when it was tested. Even so, you are well under the limits so have nothing to worry about. My axle limits are 2000 on the front and 1500 on the back I think, but my 'van isn't very big and has a total fully laden weight of only 3500 kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Spadge - 2014-09-06 4:18 PM Thanks for the reply nowtelse2do, however I'm confused now ! The vehicle MOT reads 1968 kg rear axle , 1518 kg front. The vehicle plate reads 2600kg rear & 1800kg front. I'm surely not allowed 1968kg on the rear axle ? Am I missing something ? Is my interpretation wrong ? As I understand it your not allowed to exceed those weights on the given axle............... Also your not allowed to exceed your maximum vehicle weight................so if one axle is overweight yet your still within your maximum vehicle weight...............then you need to redistribute your heavy gear towards the axle with the less load..............ie if your overweight at the back axle, because you have a long overhang with a garage, then the heavy stuff needs moving forward ;-)................ Don't dealers mention that little detail when they show folk those huge cavernous garages? :-S..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-09-06 4:44 PM Spadge - 2014-09-06 4:18 PM Thanks for the reply nowtelse2do, however I'm confused now ! The vehicle MOT reads 1968 kg rear axle , 1518 kg front. The vehicle plate reads 2600kg rear & 1800kg front. I'm surely not allowed 1968kg on the rear axle ? Am I missing something ? Is my interpretation wrong ? I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure that you're allowed 2600 on your rear axle and 1800 on the front. The MOT weights will be the current weight but of course it wouldn't have been fully loaded when it was tested. Even so, you are well under the limits so have nothing to worry about. My axle limits are 2000 on the front and 1500 on the back I think, but my 'van isn't very big and has a total fully laden weight of only 3500 kg. That’s so - the 1518kg (front axle) and 1968kg (rear axle) are the axle-weights recorded by the equipment used by the MOT test-station. Regarding the accuracy of such equipment compared to a weighbridge, I’d guess that a weighbridge designed to cope with, say, a 20-tonne truck could be expected to be less accurate (because small inaccuracies might be considered less important) than the equipment at an MOT testing station. I suggest you assume the MOT-test figures are correct. When your motorhome was tested its front axle was 282kg below its authorised 1800kg maximum and its rear axle was 632kg below its authorised 2600kg maximum. 1518kg + 1968kg = 3486kg, so you can subtract that from whatever your (Mobilvetta?) motorhome’s authorised overall maximum weight is to calculate the payload available when the vehicle was MOTed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 What does your weight plate on your van say. Normally (but not always) it will say. 1) Front axle weight. 2)Rear axle weight. 3) Gross Train Weight (that might read G.C.W. :- Gross Combination Weight) Also what is the Gross vehicle weight. Sorry not to have come back earlier, had to go out. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spadge Posted September 6, 2014 Author Share Posted September 6, 2014 Thanks very much for the info gents. Crack on with the identity of the motorhome Mr Uzzell. I'm impressed ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I did mean to say (above) that my rear is 2000 and my front 1500, not the other way round! I visited a weighbridge yesterday and with my new towbar, bike carrier and two heavy ebikes, |'m exceeding my rear axle limit by over 100 kg, hence my decision to get a new 'van with higher limits. I dread to think how many motorhomes are on the road in the UK (and everywhere else in Europe) that are grossly overloaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnum1066 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Hi, I am researching fulltiming in a motorhome and just registered - I happen to know that any UK weighbridge that is either a public weighbridge or trades based on the weight - that is charges by weight - is accurate to 20kg. Maybe my user name should have been weighbridge nerd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Barnum1066 - 2014-09-06 7:35 PM Hi, I am researching fulltiming in a motorhome and just registered - I happen to know that any UK weighbridge that is either a public weighbridge or trades based on the weight - that is charges by weight - is accurate to 20kg. Maybe my user name should have been weighbridge nerd? Welcome to the forum Weighbridge nerd ;-).................Useful info to know B-).........when arguing the toss with a bloke in a yellow florescent waste coat :D............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Barnum1066 - 2014-09-06 7:35 PM Hi, I am researching fulltiming in a motorhome and just registered - I happen to know that any UK weighbridge that is either a public weighbridge or trades based on the weight - that is charges by weight - is accurate to 20kg. Maybe my user name should have been weighbridge nerd? I’m going to nitpick and suggest that your “... is accurate to 20kg” statement should really say “... should be accurate to 20kg”. Many motorhomes can easily exceed their plated maximum overall weight or individual axle weights when in fully loaded trim and there has been a good deal of discussion on motorhome forums in the past about the accuracy of UK weighbridges. This is a 2009 example from the MotorHomeFacts forum http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-66318-accuracy-of-weighbridges-not-as-good-as-you-might-think.html Even though UK weighbridges may be potentially capable of very accurate measurement, apparently the real-world situation is different. This 2012 document http://www.agg-net.com/files/attachments/articles/ready_for_inspection.pdf states that the NMO (National Measurement Office) “... has identified weighbridges to be an area of concern following a survey that found 25.5% of weighbridges to be out of legal tolerance." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Spadge - 2014-09-06 6:50 PM Thanks very much for the info gents. Crack on with the identity of the motorhome Mr Uzzell. I'm impressed ! 1998 Mobilvetta Euroyacht based on Iveco Daily RWD chassis ;-) The sum of the 1800kg and 2600kg maximum axle-weight limits is 4400kg, which would suggest that a maximum gross-weight limit of at least 4000kg should be anticipated. HOWEVER on-line adverts and comments relating to Iveco-based Mobilvettas suggest that a good many of them were marketed with a ‘downplated’ 3500kg maximum gross weight, meaning that their user-payload was extremely limited (or non-existent). This practice would be more likely with Mobilvettas marketed abroad where driving-licence restrictions make a 3500kg motorhome more attractive to buyers. So a LHD Euroyacht is more likely to have a 3500kg gross weight limit than a RHD one. This 2011 Iveco -forum discussion is worth reading http://ivecoforums.com/topic/8726396/1/ I’d question the accuracy of some of the statements made, but there’s no doubt that the 3500kg/1800kg/2600kg comments are valid regarding 1990s Euroyachts. It would be wise therefore to confirm exactly what all the weight-limits are on your motorhome’s VIN-plate, not just the axle-weights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spadge Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 The only other weight on the Vin plate other than the axle figures quoted has no definition as to what it refers to. However this fig is the very first on the plate and it states 3500kg so my assumption was that this is the gross kerb weight of my 1998 LHD Mobilvetta Euroyacht 170 RWD Iveco based motorhome Mr Uzzell :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 No Barry, the first number is the Maximum Allowable Mass (MAM) of the vehicle. Unless a vehicle has been re-plated, the MAM will always be less than the sum of the permitted axle maximum loads. From what you say, you urgently need to get yours re-plated to a figure that is adequate for the payload you carry. Since the axle maxima are as high as they are, this should be a simple, and relatively cheap exercise involving no more that the provision of a new plate to be attached alongside the existing one, and an alteration to the V5C to show the new MAM. SV Tech will be able to advise you on costs and practicalities. I believe you have already said you have a licence for up to 7.5 tonnes, so you should have no problems there. The main point is that running the vehicle in excess of 3.5 tonnes is an offence for which you risk a fine and, I believe, points. If you are pulled in at a weight check it will be the value on the plate that they will use, and they won't be particularly impressed if you claim not to understand what the numbers mean when told you are overloaded! From what you say, you basically have no payload at present, so would be unable to reduce the van's weight to its legal maximum by shedding load, which might get you off with a caution. You will be, as they say, well and truly in the poo, so it will pay you to get this sorted out and legalised as quickly as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Brian correct....you need to get it reclassified if you want to use it practically.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spadge Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Thanks for that Derek & Brian, it means I've been on the continent overloaded without me knowing ! ....Shock / Horror, I know it's no excuse ................. however following your timely advice I'm in touch with SV Tech ref same. Once again thanks to all the contributors ref this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spadge Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Sorry to be a pain folks ! Having been to check the measurements of the motorhome before I contacted Sv Tech I've found another Vin plate. There are no weights on it though. Only a different chassis number. Axle 1 & Axle 2 have no figures stamped ! So two Vin plates two different chassis numbers. Is it likely to have been uprated already, more to the point how do I find out ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spadge Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Sorted ! I realised after I had posted and it was too late to edit where to get the relevant info from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 This link to an Iveco forum-thread has a photo of a typical VIN-plate in the Dec 18 2012, 01:53 PM posting http://ivecoforums.com/topic/8837662/4/ The vehicle to which that VIN-plate relates has - a 3500kg gross-weight limit - a 7000kg train-weight limit (ie. the maximum weight of the vehicle + a trailer) - a 1800kg front-axle limit - a 2240kg rear-axle limit As this is a standardised format, I would expect the Iveco Vin-plate on your Euroyacht to carry those four weight-limit-related data in the same descending order. In your case they shold be 3500kg (? as you have not said) 1800kg 2600kg It quite likely that your motorhome has another data-plate on it, but this will have been added by Mobilvetta and the ‘chassis number’ on it will be a ‘build number’ relating to the conversion. It has no real relevance to the Iveco VIN-plate and (as there are no weight-data on it) will not override the weight limits given on the Iveco VIN-plate. The chances that your motorhome’s gross-weight limit has already been ‘uprated’ above 3500kg are extremely slim (approaching nil). I can’t find any information relating to 1990s Euroyachts that might suggest they were marketed other than with a 3500kg gross-weight. If your motorhome had been uprated beyond 3500g, there should be a VIN-plate authenticating this and the vehicle’s V5C registration document should reflect this. Over 3500kg, the motorhome should be in Vehicle Tax Class Private/HGV, not Private/LGV that I’d bet good money it’s now in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmold Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I had my MOT yesterday and without asking I was told by the tester what my motorhome weighed, nothing to do with the vin plate or maximum allowance but what it actually weighed there and then. The brake testing machine gave the weight. As said previous , vehicle was not loaded but next time it could be and save a fee at a weighbridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Just finished packing so called in at the weighbridge before setting off. Dethleffs A5881 rated at 3850K but downplated to 3500K. Ready to roll, the axle loads are within spec, but total is 120K over. That's 3.5%, so I have two choices, live with it, or, as it matches my wife's weight exactly........... ( but who's going to tell her, and who will cook for me?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Billggski - 2014-09-09 1:08 PM Just finished packing so called in at the weighbridge before setting off. Dethleffs A5881 rated at 3850K but downplated to 3500K. Ready to roll, the axle loads are within spec, but total is 120K over. That's 3.5%, so I have two choices, live with it, or, as it matches my wife's weight exactly........... ( but who's going to tell her, and who will cook for me?) Or the third choice - get the 3,850kg MAM reinstated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Brian Kirby - 2014-09-10 9:51 AM Billggski - 2014-09-09 1:08 PM Just finished packing so called in at the weighbridge before setting off. Dethleffs A5881 rated at 3850K but downplated to 3500K. Ready to roll, the axle loads are within spec, but total is 120K over. That's 3.5%, so I have two choices, live with it, or, as it matches my wife's weight exactly........... ( but who's going to tell her, and who will cook for me?) Or the third choice - get the 3,850kg MAM reinstated. ... or have a good look at what you don't really need to take with you and jettison sufficient to get to your legal maximum of 3500 kg. If you usually travel with full water tanks for example you could just take enough for a cuppa etc and fill up just enough for a day or so when you get wherever you're going. If you have a 120 litre water tank that's around 120 kgs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spadge Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 SVTECH advise me I can uprate to 3850kg Derek Uzzell, that should be enough payload to play with shouldn't it ! Empty water tanks etc throw the unused bits and bobs out. Might not get away with not taking the other half,but then why shouldn't I take her ! :-D Thanks for all the advice chaps,much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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