NINOT Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Hallo, I am in a process of van conversion and have a problem deciding which batteries to get. The intention was to go with 2 AGMs (90-105Ah) + Schaudt EBL 208S block + LRM controller + solar panels. In Slovenia some conversion companies use this set-up and set the regulator on GEL (because of lack of specific AGM setting) aandcaravans advice is to go with lead acid which are cheaper and charge regulators have setting for lead acid type. BTW in Croatia and in Slovenia the price of VARTA LFD90 is about 200 euro. Many thanks for advice Nino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 NINOT - 2016-02-13 7:26 AM Hallo, I am in a process of van conversion and have a problem deciding which batteries to get. The intention was to go with 2 AGMs (90-105Ah) + Schaudt EBL 208S block + LRM controller + solar panels. In Slovenia some conversion companies use this set-up and set the regulator on GEL (because of lack of specific AGM setting) aandcaravans advice is to go with lead acid which are cheaper and charge regulators have setting for lead acid type. BTW in Croatia and in Slovenia the price of VARTA LFD90 is about 200 euro. Many thanks for advice Nino Hello Nino, The price of 200 euros for Varta LFD90 batteries is a bit high compared to the UK prices. I too hope to install two of these after receiving advice from aandacaravans on this forum. Apparently, they are very low maintenance which is what I require as mine are located beneath the cab seats and not easy to access for routine topping up. But, when I checked the prices they were about £80 - £90 or around 100 to 120 euros at a conversion rate of 1.25 euros to the £. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 David Varta LFD90 batteries are not “low-maintenance”, they are “maintenance-free”. Low-maintenance (at least in my semantic book) means that a battery is designed so that its electrolyte-level can be topped up but this should rarely be necessary. Maintenance-free means that a battery is not designed to allow its electrolyte-level to be topped up. Maintenance-free batteries may be fully sealed (eg. gel batteries) or not, and LFD90s are not. If you intend to install LFD90s under cab seats it would be best to fit vent-tubes to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I assume you are in Slovenia or Croatia. You could try looking for TAB batteries and their motion pasted range which should be a lot cheaper. They are also a higher specification for cycling compared to the Varta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Derek Uzzell - 2016-02-13 9:29 AM Maintenance-free batteries may be fully sealed (eg. gel batteries) or not, and LFD90s are not. If you intend to install LFD90s under cab seats it would be best to fit vent-tubes to them. I seem to recall that Allan (aandncaravanservices) in one of his posts mentioned that the Varta LFD90 wasn't designed to receive a vent-tube. If the Varta is a VRLA (valve regulated lead acid) type battery, then perhaps it doesn't have a facility whereby one can attach a vent-tube. I would be interested to know, because I'm looking at purchasing a couple of Varta LFD90's. And, because they would be housed within the double floor area (with little natural ventilation), I was hoping to vent them via a tube to the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 The Varta LFD90 and others in the same range are vented wet flooded batteries and have a provision for a vent tube. When not fitted in an external ventilated locker, or inside you should always fit a vent tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Derek Uzzell - 2016-02-13 9:29 AM David Varta LFD90 batteries are not “low-maintenance”, they are “maintenance-free”. Low-maintenance (at least in my semantic book) means that a battery is designed so that its electrolyte-level can be topped up but this should rarely be necessary. Maintenance-free means that a battery is not designed to allow its electrolyte-level to be topped up. Maintenance-free batteries may be fully sealed (eg. gel batteries) or not, and LFD90s are not. If you intend to install LFD90s under cab seats it would be best to fit vent-tubes to them. Thank you Derek, I stand corrected and will ensure the batteries are vented when fitted. As you recall from the previous thread of mine I my Chausson 717GA does have a vent tube through the floor but is located under the (UK) drivers seat but the present battery was, for some reason, fitted (without vent) under the passenger seat. I hope to be able to squeeze both batteries under the drivers seat so that the jack/wheelbrace kit can go back under the passenger seat. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Brambles - 2016-02-13 11:03 AM The Varta LFD90 and others in the same range are vented wet flooded batteries and have a provision for a vent tube. When not fitted in an external ventilated locker, or inside you should always fit a vent tube. Many thanks Brambles for confirming that. PS. By the way, congratulations on reaching your 4000th post today. May there be many more :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Thanks Robbo, my goodness 4000 posts. I would never have noticed if you had not mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 We are of the belief that the Varta LFD90/Bosch L5 range won't release any liquid or gas outside the battery under normal conditions. The battery chemistry is a very 'low gas' design. Even at temperatures and voltages that would cause other batteries (even gel and AGM) to lose fluid, the Varta won't misbehave. When gassing does occur the construction of the case contains the fluid within the battery so any gas condenses back to a liquid and returns to the cells. It is a genuine Maintenance free battery with zero fluid loss, so you don't need to replenish it. Many so called 'maintenance free' are actually low maintenance. In the past I have referred to it as a sealed battery and Brambles has quite rightly corrected me, because it is not 'sealed' in the conventional way, but it does have the same zero fluid loss characteristics as a sealed battery, just like a Gel. But where safety is concerned the Varta/Bosch are safer because they are more benign when things go wrong. A Gel/AGM battery reacts more aggressively when it is thrown conditions it doesn't like. Far more likely to explode than a Varta LFD/Bosch L5. We would never say don't fit a vent tube. Fitting one where possible is sensible. However, I do not use one on the Bosch S5 under my Car seat. That battery has had 3 extreme Alternator recharges from zero volts, when the lights were left on overnight, without any gassing at all. Gel and AGM batteries don't have provision for a vent, yet they will still vent fluid when they deteriorate or things go wrong. While they are pressure sealed, they are not gas tight. Gas will be vented in non-ideal conditions. AGM batteries in a Motorhome are more likely to give off gas as they deteriorate than many realise. Usually after not much more than 2 years. On the 11th Feb 2016 the Dales came to us with their new in August 2014 Globescout and a failed Banner AGM, just 18 months old. Although this one was not gassing, it had clearly failed internally and experience shows that it would not have been much longer before the case started to swell prior to eventual explosion. The EBL 99 charging unit was working as designed, just not designed for an AGM. As we have stated before this is a common and growing problem with the AGM's being fitted on new vehicles, see : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/agm-batteries.php Charge and discharge rates in a Motorhome are on the increase, this is not the Gel's comfort zone. If a Gel is charged or discharged heavily or operated at the sort of temperatures you get in Spain during the Summer, it too is likely to gas with the potential to explode. Less safe than a Varta LFD. 5 years ago Gel was the safer option than a conventional wet battery, but the Bosch L5/Varta LFD broke the mould. The zero fluid loss construction, in my view, now makes them the safer option in an 'open' Habitation area even without a vent tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Further to my assertions above about the Varta LFD/Bosch L5 being gas tight and safe, the website 'Battery Technology' page http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php contains more info on Varta LFD/Bosch L5 Zero Fluid loss, true 100% maintenance free aspect. It includes photos from the Bosch website on the unique construction of the casing, where it states, "Labyrinth construction ensures that evaporated liquid remains in the battery. This makes the battery 100% maintenance free, as well as leak-proof and tilt-proof. The Central ventilation opening (as in linking the cells, not as in 'to the atmosphere' ventilation) means it is suitable for installation inside the passenger compartment". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NINOT Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 Thanks Brambles, sorry for late reply, I was in a hospital.Regards,Nino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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