Rayjsj Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Hello, My Fiat vehicle battery is flat as a pancake, only 2 or 3 years old, (64 plate) and is now not holding a charge. Serviced regularly, used to have the van on constant EHU, with a Sargent smart charger (set to smart operation) and topped up both leisure and vehicle batteries with distilled water. Problem is 2cells of the vehicle battery are inaccessable to top up, obscured by the large terminal block over the positive terminal. So, it looks like these 2 have dried out and killed the battery ? Is that likely ? Or am i just unlucky ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 The Industries where batteries are kept on constant charge, like Computer data Centres, have chargers which Float/maintain the batteries at just 13.0 - 13.2v because any higher can 'overcharge' the battery, generally drying them out. Most Motorhome/caravan chargers Float at voltages around 13.8v, because they are designed to be battery chargers, not battery maintainers. Specialist Battery maintainers like the Optimate, spend 50% of their time inactive and the rest of their time at 13.2v. If your Sargent charger has been maintaining both batteries permanently at 13.8v, then it might explain the early demise of the battery? The new breed of Victron chargers are both battery chargers and battery maintainers in one, having a Float charge of just 13.2v. The documentation states, "float voltage is reduced to 13,2 V to minimize gassing and corrosion of the positive plates". The newer Votronic Solar Regulators are now also designed to maintain a battery, not just charge it, so have a float charge of 13.2v to avoid exactly the same issue as Long term EHU. Very few batteries like to be constantly charged as it promotes Corrosion. Some react more badly than others, like those with a High Antimony content as these can additionally suffer Antimony poisoning. The impact on the batteries will depend on the charger, the battery make/technology, bank size, condition and type. Temperature is also important. See our web page for more info : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/ehu-full-time-yes-or-no.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan3956 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I've had the same problems with MH zig charger over winter as you have. boiling batteries. To get round the problem i used Motorcycle optimizer chargers bought them from Aldi or Lidl £13 each. There the proper type of charger for floating the voltage in the battery didn't do it again. Now i use a 120 watt permanently roof mounted .solar panel and a battery to battery Sterling charger which keeps both batteries fully charged and doesn't over charge them. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipsticks Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I couldn't see a better option,I know it weakens the clamp plate but there is not much space for movement anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 hi Rayjsj, the terminal block can be removed for topping up 2 small screws on the red plastic clamp then loosen the +terminal and it comes off, and i am no electrician but i never put mine on EHU all the time see this thread http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-vehicle-battery-access/45861/#M515234 Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 In the thread mentioned above which was all about Starter battery top-up, Derek lists the characteristic of a maintenance free battery as one that won't require topping up in normal use. Very rare these days for a Car Starter battery to need topping up. One of the exceptions listed by Yuasa where topping up may be required, states "Our batteries are designed to be topped up with water if water should be lost owing to, for example, a charging system fault, prolonged operation in hot climates, excessive off-vehicle charging...... ". Note the last item, "excessive off-vehicle charging", my interpretation of which is charging over and above the norm of the Alternator. A Starter battery does almost no work, just starts the engine and then the Alternator takes over any demands for power, so shouldn't lose any Fluid, even a low maintenance battery. Therefore an original equipment high quality Starter battery that is losing significant fluid is being used outside it's 'normal working envelope'. That the OP's Starter battery needed topping up so much in 2 years suggests an issue with how it is being used. If you have a Starter battery that is losing significant fluid, you should be aware, that with a modern battery, fluid loss and corrosion (therefore shortened life) usually go hand in hand. A battery losing significant fluid is one deteriorating faster than usual. Therefore how it is being cared for would be worth examination?. Dipsticks, the positive clamp on the Varta in the photo above looks awfully close to the Seat rail, especially a concern if the battery holding bracket is less secure than normal? If you could rotate the clamp clockwise a few degrees it looks like you might increase the clearance significantly? As it looks to be the Habitation battery (so relatively low current draw) a change of the battery Clamp to a quick release version with a built in Insulating Red Plastic cover might be a worthwhile option? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipsticks Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Thanks Alan, It's not as close as it looks though (third dimension) It's a Transit and that's how Ford build them, it's an unusual set up, Ford call it an auxilliary battery option, I think it's generally aimed at people who use the vans with heavy duty electrical equipment such as big hydraulic pumps, powered lifts etc. Both the batteries are used for starting so a heavy current is drawn and the connection you see has something like a 50mmsq cable on it that wouldn't move much if at all. Auto Sleepers do use the Varta as a habitation battery too which I have always thought of as a bit of a shortcut, however it has all worked well so far. There is a plastic cover over the whole of the seat base, then the seat rails go on top of that. A right parlarva checking the fluid levels in the batteries but I always do it 3 times a year. The varta is 10 years old this July and still performs well. Come to think of it the other battery and the one under the passenger seat are all 10 years old and doing well but I have never let any of them get below 12.2 V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Not seen that before with both batteries as Starters? Most of the Transits Vans, as in Builders vans, that have the second battery it is used as an auxillary battery for the lights in the rear, radio, etc. For example to allow a Carpenter to work out of the rear of the van without impacting the Starting. It isn't usually linked to the Starter battery, except when the Alternator spins to get charged up. Most of the Motorhome converters then seem to use the same Aux battery, sometimes paired with a second battery elsewhere, as the habitation battery. But only done about 20 Transits based Motorhomes so maybe other options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Regarding the two batteries under a Transit Mk6/Mk7 cab seat... Ford always installed the starter-battery in the driver’s seat-pedestal and this left sufficient room for a motorhome converter to shoehorn a ‘leisure’ battery (Varta LFD90 dimensions) in the remaining space in the pedestal if the converter so wished. This could have happened with my 2005 Transit Mk6-based Hobby motorhome, except Hobby chose to fit the leisure-battery in the pedestal of the passenger cab-seat together with the CBE Distribution Box and battery-charger. On other Transit-based Hobby motorhomes Hobby installed the CBE Distribution Box and battery-charger in the spare space in the driver’s seat-pedestal allowing a pair of (Varta LFD90 size) leisure-batteries to be fitted in the passenger cab-seat pedestal. So, although a starter-battery will always be in the driver’s seat-pedestal, a ‘leisure’ battery may also be in there. However, Ford (not the motorhome converter) also offered a two-battery system for Transit, with both batteries installed in the driver’s cab-seat pedestal. And, when this arrangement was present in a motorhome, the converter (eg. Auto-Sleeper) might add a 3rd battery. The Ford factory-fitted Transit two-battery set-up is explained by Clive Mott-Gotobed in a 2012 MHFacts forum thread as follows: "At the back of the driver's seat pan is a cover concealing some relays and large fuses.....One large relay is a latching relay that has two stable states - Closed or Open. It gets a signal when it is required to open and another signal when it is required to close. Permanent magnets inside the relay keep it in the condition set. When the ignition switch is turned OFF this relay is left in an OPEN condition and the two batteries are isolated from each other. When the key switch is turned ON the relay is CLOSED and the two batteries are connected in parallel and will remain in parallel during engine cranking. The second battery in this arrangement is used to power accessories and this ensures that you should never discharge the primary starting battery by leaving something turned on. One conversion I know of simply connectes the leisure batteries in parallel with this secondary battery and this arrangement has worked very well.” Returning to Ray’s original posting, two things need to be asked. One - how much ‘topping up ‘ of his starter-battery’s electrolyte has been needed since 2014? Two - are the inaccessible cells of the starter-battery actually dry? If - since 20014 - a significant quantity of distilled water has needed to be put into the four easily-accessible battery cells, it stands to reason that the two inaccessible cells’ electrolyte should have required similar topping-up during that period. If that hasn’t been done, there’s every chance that the two inaccesible cells are now dry and that’s what has killed the battery. However, if only a minimal amount of topping up of the four easily-accessible battery cells has been needed since 2014, the two inaccessible cells may still contain adequate electrolyte and ‘drying out’ is not the cause of the battery going flat. Ray’s statement "So, it looks like these 2 have dried out and killed the battery?” suggests to me that it’s not yet been established that the two inaccessible cells are dry. Surely that’s the first thing to confirm before speculating about why the battery has totally discharged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 This link to a 2013 Ford Transit Forum discussion may be worth reading regarding the Transit twin-battery arrangement http://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=132536 The photos are of a RHD Mk 7 Transit with two batteries in each seat pedestal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipsticks Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Thanks Derek, it was indeed in 2007 when Clive Mott and Frank Bryant on MHF who kindly helped me put together the set up we have now and here is a picture of the second Varta battery connected in parallel to the other, located under the passenger seat. Our Ford system is as I mentioned earlier and as expanded upon by Derek. For anyone interested here are some details.....we have a Transit Mk7 PVC and we have 145 watts of solar panels controlled by a Morningstar MPPT controller also mounted under the passenger seat, specifically to be in the same temperature environment as the batteries. It has an equalizing feature which attracted me which works as follows. Equalize (flooded battery type only) if the auto-equalize feature is enabled, the ss-Mppt will equalize a flooded battery for three (3) hours every 28 days. Equalize charging raises the battery voltage above the standard absorption voltage so that the electrolyte gasses. This process prevents electrolyte stratification and equalizes the individual cell voltages within the battery. I also use a simple switch to change the setting from sealed to flooded battery type so when I am leaving the van (laid up) the absorption voltage set point drops from 14.4 to 14.1v which I believe reduces gassing in any case. I don’t think Ray said how much water his batteries had taken when he topped them up but I have recorded how much water was taken in our set of three batteries as discussed since 2010 as follows:- The Black Ford Silver Battery........ None (as Alan says it is likely to be) Both the Varta’s........average 0.85 litres per year (and so far, equal amounts in each cell) I take out both seats 2 or 3 times a year and every time the level in the Varta’s is only just above the plates. We have never been short of battery power and never much think about it anymore, I hope this might be of use or interest to someone wanting to develop their system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 aandncaravan - 2017-01-08 12:21 AM Not seen that before with both batteries as Starters? Most of the Transits Vans, as in Builders vans, that have the second battery it is used as an auxillary battery for the lights in the rear, radio, etc. For example to allow a Carpenter to work out of the rear of the van without impacting the Starting. It isn't usually linked to the Starter battery, except when the Alternator spins to get charged up. Most of the Motorhome converters then seem to use the same Aux battery, sometimes paired with a second battery elsewhere, as the habitation battery. But only done about 20 Transits based Motorhomes so maybe other options? Then I don't understand the system, as twice we have isolated the primary Starter battery and the Aux battery would not start the vehicle even though it appeared to be good? On the same two vehicles we checked each battery with the ignition off and got two distinct voltages. When the ignition was turned on, they were still differing voltages. Only when the engine was running did we see both batteries showing the same identical 14.4v at both batteries, suggesting the batteries had become linked when the Alternator ran up? One was a Work van, the other a camper. I can't remember the models but the Work van was a Y reg. However, Clive's explanation of how it works would explain why the 60A Fusing to a third battery under the Passenger seat sometimes blew on a Transit when the engine was started after it had stood a few days?. Not a vehicle we examined just asked to give telephone advice last year. I am now guessing that in this instance, the Starter and Aux battery were probably running down fairly quickly when left for a few days, so the newer third habitation battery was the one Starting the vehicle and the relatively light weight cable and 60 amp fuse were not up to the current? If so, can we suggest that anyone with a third battery on a Transit ensures the cabling/fusing is up to Starting the Engine, or at least ensures the Starter battery is always a good one? I can't remember if the Transits we have seen with a third battery had 'Starter' sized 300amp cable, which are maybe the safest. Dipsticks set-up seems to have chunky cable to the third battery, so hopefully most will have. It also suggests that Transits might be best equipped with a Dual purpose Starter/Leisure battery as the Aux unit rather than a straight Leisure, just in case it is called on to start the engine? Derek, you are right about fluid loss being a guess, I was pointing out that any significant fluid loss suggests something outside design is going on, because I have never had to top up a car battery in over 15 years since Maintenance free became the norm. It would be interesting to know how much battery fluid Nick of Euroserve has to put in his vans Starter batteries that cover hundreds of thousands of miles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 Perhaps i had too much trust in my vans Sargent Smart charger ? I assumed (never ass ume etc..) that Smart meant it would protect and maintain ALL batteries attached to it, ie NOT boil any of them dry by overcharging when on EHU constamtly, seems that is not the case ? Why should extra chargers be purchased to maintain the batteries when i paid 50000 for a vehicle that supposedly already had one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Ray A simple question - have you actually confirmed that the two ‘masked’ cells on your Ducato’s starter-battery are ‘dry’? “Smart Charge” is described on Sargent’s website and it appears that - when the motorhome is on 230V hook-up - the starter-battery is monitored but not charged while its voltage is 12.4V or higher. If the starter-battery’s voltage drops below 12.4V, the motorhome’s battery-charger should switch its output from the leisure-battery (the default for charging) to the starter-battery and charge this for 4 hours at 13.6V/14.4V. The battery-charger should then revert to charging the leisure-battery for 4 hours while monitoring the starter-battery’s voltage. This seems to suggest that, if a motorhome is continuously connected to a 230V EHU for an extended period (and the Sargent system is functioning correctly of course) the starter-battery should only receive the occasional shortish-duration charge at a no higher voltage than that provided by the motorhome’s alternator. As the Sargent system is fitted to large numbers of UK motorhomes that have the same sort of starter-battery installation as yours (with several cell-covers inaccessible) and plenty of people connect their motorhome continuously to an EHU while the vehicle is standing idle for long periods, if there were a basic operating flaw in “Smart Charge” that has the potential to ‘fry’ the starter-battery, one might reasonably expect plenty of UK motorcaravanners reporting unusually-early starter-battery failure. As far as I’m aware that’s not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Derek, I can't find that about Starter battery charging in the EC325/EC400/EC500 manuals. All I can find on Starter battery Smart charging is : "Smart Charging: The EC500 system incorporates a smart charge feature, which monitors both leisure and vehicle batteries and automatically adjusts and directs the charger power (and solar power if a solar panel is installed) to maintain the leisure and vehicle batteries at an optimal level". Similar blurb in the EC325 manual. If what you say is the case with all Sargent EC xxx chargers, isn't that a worse scenario?? As a Motorhome owner leaving the vehicle on EHU all the time, I might be expecting the battery to be kept at the ideal 12.9v. So for the charger to let it run down to 30% discharge (definitely not the ideal for an ordinary Starter battery designed for very shallow discharge) to 12.4v, then charge it back up repeatedly during 6 months storage is going to significantly shorten the life of the battery? Rayjsj, Most Motorhomes are fitted with a Battery Charger. A battery charger is designed to charge a battery as efficiently and quickly as possible so it has higher 'charging' voltages, and once charged the 230v power shut off. The best units charge at 14.4v, the slowest at 13.5v. A battery maintainer, like an Optimate, is a different animal. It is usually a low power device with lower charging voltages and current, like 13.0v/3amps that takes a week of Sundays to charge a battery up, but will maintain it all Winter. Despite the folklore, we don't think (nor do Victron Energy one of the best outfits going) using an efficient high power battery charger to maintain a battery is the best way of doing things. Victron are one of the few Battery Charger manufacturers who also make batteries, including a Long Life 4,500 cycle Gel battery, so clued up on both aspects better than anyone. They say, "The flooded battery types that have been discussed have not been designed for float charging over long periods of time (i. e. several months or years). When float charged at the higher end of the 12.9v to 13.98v range, service life will be shortened due to corrosion of the positive plate grids, and batteries with a high antimony content will need frequent topping up..... When float charged at 12.9v, aging and gassing will be under control, but a regular refreshing charge at a higher (absorption) voltage will be needed to maintain the fully charged state. In other words: the high end of the 12.9v to 13.98v range is fine for a few days or weeks, but not for a 6 months winter period. To my opinion, instead of trying to find a delicate balance between insufficient voltage to compensate for self-discharge and too much gassing at a higher voltage, it would be better to leave the battery open circuit (off charge) and recharge regularly. Depending on temperature, at least once every 4 months or to reduce float voltage to a very low level, for example 13 V". If that is the ideal for Victron, that is good enough for us and we will keep trying to promote that against the incorrect 'Folklore' that says leaving batteries on long term EHU is ok. It might have been ok in 1980 when the batteries discharged in 2 weeks and battery chargers had 13.5v and delivered a paltry 10amps, but very different today for both chargers and batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Allan Use this link https://sargentltd.co.uk/tech-support/article/EC500-System/18 then download the .pdf file accessed via the down-arrow on question "Q. How does Smart Charging work on my EC400/450/500?” If the starter-battery were completely isolated from all ‘work loads’ a voltage value accurately measured at the battery’s terminals would indicate an approximate charge-state of 30% discharged. However, that won’t be the case in a modern Ducato motorhome where the starter-battery will be maintaining various vehicle electronics that one might anticipate will depress a voltage value even if it happens to be measured at the battery terminals. I’ve no practical experience of Sargent systems, but if “Smart Charge” has caused Ray’s motorhome’s starter-battery to lose sufficient electrolyte since 2014 to cause it to fail - and the starter-batteries fitted to other motorhomes with “Smart Charge” that are on EHU for extended periods are not failing - then Ray’s battery-failure may be the result of a fault with the particular Sargent system fitted to his Auto-Trail, or due to a fault with the battery itself. Expert background advice on motorhome charging systems is always worth having, and discussion about Transit battery set-ups should be of interest to owners of Transit-based motorhomes. But until Ray confirms what the electrolyte-level in the two inaccessible cells of his starter-battery was when it went ‘flat’, the cause of this problem will continue to be elusive. Basically... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 The load on a Starter battery from Alarm, ECU, etc will be very light, just milliamps so unlikely to have any affect on a battery voltage. Difference unlikely to be even 0.1v between it's 'real' voltage and the one 'seen' by the charger taking a sample to see if it needs to recharge? I think you are missing the point, usually my fault for poor explanation. If the Sargent chargers work as you say, then the battery may not be dried out, just exhausted. So the fluid level in the remaining cells might be irrelevant? For example if a Starter battery has 100 cycles DOD at 30% and the Sargent causes it to 'cycle' 50 times each year, it might be dead in 2 years, yet may have lost no fluid. Not that simple, in real terms, but you see the point? Conventional Starter batteries have a very low number of cycles, as they are not designed to be cycled even to 20%, so just 100 cycles is likely to be the upper limit. Some Starter batteries may have half that number of cycles. I think I have seen a Yuasa quoted with just 50 cycles? Forcing one of these to cycle just 25 times each year will see it have less than a 2 year life, yet it may lose no fluid leading up to failure as the cause may not be corrosion/gassing, just 'used up'. Someone else with exactly the same Motorhome on permanent EHU might drive the van every two weeks preventing the Starter battery getting too low so not suffering anywhere near as badly. That doesn't mean there is not an issue, just that not everyone is suffering as badly as Ray. Knowing the fluid levels in the battery doesn't prove the cause one way or the other. So irrespective of the actual cause/issue the above outlines scenarios that people might want to try and avoid? One other factor ? If the Sargent charger bringing the Starter battery back up from a low 12.4v, is a unit like the EC325 or EC328 with it's 18v super charge (potentially kicking out up to 20amps/18v) then that may well be even worse news for a low cycle Starter battery that isn't generally designed for fast charging? I don't know the answers here, but we have 2 x EC325's in the workshop now so will do some serious testing of exactly what they do to the Starter battery. One of the reasons we advise against fitment of a Battery Master is they work in a similar way in that they allow the Starter battery they are 'protecting' to drop to 0.75v below normal before a recharge takes place. Only when the Starter battery is 0.75v below the habitation do they trigger and then divert power. Generally the battery drops even further than the Sargent scenario, down to 12.2v. Never seen anyone write that is a good idea for a Starter battery. Working a battery like that will give even a Bosch L5/Varta LFD90 Starter/dual purpose deep cycle battery a hard time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 aandncaravan - 2017-01-09 2:52 PM ...I think you are missing the point... No, what I’ve said (repeatedly) is that Ray made in his original posting an assumption - that two of his starter-battery’s six cells had become ‘dry’ and that this had killed the battery - but this easy-to-check ‘dryness’ condition does not appear to have been confirmed. (It just reminds how much I used to loathe providing computer support ;-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Sorry guys, feel like ive poked a stick in a bee hive, since finding the vehicle battery flat, trying to recharge it to no avail. I have done nothing, as i cant afford a new vehicle battery just yet. I have 2 fully charged leisure batteries, one brand new after a previous banner failed, in October, this almost glowed red hot as it failed, Is it possible this helped take down the vehicle battery before i discovered it ? Seems strange for 2 batteries to fail within weeks of one another, both of a similar age on a 64 plate vehicle. No fuses have blown at any time on the charging system, And in the Sargent manual supplied with the van constant EHU is not warned against. Getting a bit fed up with Wet cell batteries, are they fit for purpose ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Does the charger seem to be charging at a reasonable level? Are the voltages within those stated by the Manufacturer? What Sargent unit is actually fitted, is it an EC500?. If the voltages are as would be expected from the unit, then it is unlikely that Sargent box is at fault. It is very unlikely that one habitation battery boiling would affect the Starter battery. It is more likely it would impact the other habitation battery first. Pretty much impossible for a charger 'issue' to just target one battery of a joined pair, for example if it faulted and started overcharging. It is not unusual for Banner wet batteries to fail in less than 2 years, especially if left on EHU long term. There are of a technology that really are not suited to the constant charging of long term EHU. I would suggest that if one of a pair of Banners has failed, the other won't be far behind? But regardless of manufacturer, general advice is that when one of a pair fails the batteries should be replaced as a pair. Same age, same make, same technology, same size, etc. It is not usual for a Starter battery to fail in 2 years, 8 - 10 years life for original equipment batteries are the norm. So I can only guess at why yours have failed, which I have done above. If you don't really need two habitation batteries, then I would take the old suspect one out of the equation so it doesn't bring down the one you purchased in October? I would also replace the Starter with a much more resilient £79 Varta LFD 90 which is unique in it's construction and technology. The technology is patented, no one else can copy it. The plates are made in such a way that they not only start off more efficient than most conventional batteries, but maintain that level as they age. Bosch/Varta claim up to 70% greater electrical efficiency to it's rivals as the battery ages. The unique construction means they tolerate both higher temperatures and voltages than any other battery. They don't Gas until voltages and temperatures are reached that would dry out a Gel. When gassing does occur at higher temperatures/voltages, the unique construction prevents fluid loss. The Hydrogen and oxygen is condensed and returned to the cells. Bosch/Varta claim the battery is not just maintenance free but 'Absolutely' maintenance free. In terms of fluid loss it can outperform a sealed battery. It is also safer than a sealed battery as failure will usually be less catastrophic. To put that into perspective, imagine sealing the battery you found boiling away and red hot to the touch. That is sealing the vents on that battery, then visualise the subsequent explosion? The unique technology of a Varta LFD/Bosch L series also happens to be 20% more energy efficient to manufacture, one of the reasons such an outstanding battery costs less than might be expected. Dr Dave has put a Post on this Forum today saying that the Vartas are set to rise in price but Tayna are still selling them at the old price. So to answer your question "are wet batteries fit for purpose"? Yes some are, some most definitely are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-01-09 3:06 PM aandncaravan - 2017-01-09 2:52 PM ...I think you are missing the point... No, what I’ve said (repeatedly) is that Ray made in his original posting an assumption - that two of his starter-battery’s six cells had become ‘dry’ and that this had killed the battery - but this easy-to-check ‘dryness’ condition does not appear to have been confirmed. (It just reminds how much I used to loathe providing computer support ;-) ) Sorry for frustating you Derek, i understand, i was in computer support also. I have now removed the vehicle battery, and no, no cells in the battery were dry, however it was so flat it couldnt even operate the central locking, i had to use a key. Have replaced it with a Hankook 110ah 800a Leisure/traction battery, with a useful 4 year warranty, price was very reasonable. Thankyou for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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