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Battery help required. Which one?
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userGoneoff
Posted: 26 June 2020 9:03 AM
Subject: Battery help required. Which one?
 
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Location: Leicestershire


I need advice as to which pair of batteries I should install in our motorhome. Ideally I wanted 2 x Exide 142ah but they are too long. Trying to keep the amp hours as high as possible with a maximum length of 330mm narrows the field down to a handful; rendering the handful down of other questionable brands there are basically two 120ah batteries; a Enduroline EXV135 and a Lucas LX35MF from what I have read on various forums both have been described as budget batteries (whatever that means) which is a concern. So I’m looking to establish which one of the dubious pair to buy. Or alternatively if anyone knows a better wet battery at a similar or better amp hour then please let me know. Alternatively let me know which of the two battery brands I should buy.
Thanks
userKeithl
Posted: 26 June 2020 10:07 AM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 


Lord of the posts

Posts: 5341
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Location: Birmingham. 2004 Auto-Trail Cheyenne Mercedes 313.


I was going to recommend the Varta LFD90 as a quality battery and whilst only being 90 Ah would probably give you more usable power than a budget higher rated battery, but it is longer than your 330 mm at 353 mm!

Is there no way you could reconfigure to fit a longer battery?

Keith.
userGoneoff
Posted: 26 June 2020 10:37 AM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 
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Location: Leicestershire


Hi Keith
No, I can't reconfigure the battery area and believe me I have tried. My first port of call would have been Varta or Bosch but for the amps I'm looking for non of them fit. I don't fancy trying to re-site the batteries into the garage either, would be far too much disruption. The leisure battery industry is full of sculduggery; re stickers car batteries, different battery brands using the same case, output not matching specification etc, and when limited to 330mm I find it difficult as to which one to go for. I'm not even interested in warranty, when you read them you would have more chance of finding teeth in a chickens beak than receiving anything meaningful from the manufacturer/retailer.
Thanks for your interest.
Phil
userKeithl
Posted: 26 June 2020 10:57 AM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 


Lord of the posts

Posts: 5341
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Location: Birmingham. 2004 Auto-Trail Cheyenne Mercedes 313.


Looking at Tayna's website, Varta used to offer an LFS105 at 330 mm long but they so no longer available...

https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/varta/lfs105/

But other websites seem to still offer it, eg...

http://barden-uk.com/product/varta-professional-lfs105/

So this may offer a quality alternative?

Keith.
userbounty hunter
Posted: 26 June 2020 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 
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Location: Skelmersdale ~ Carthago Opus 6.1 2006


I have 3 x 140 amp Numax Gel batteries which are 9 years old and still give good service. I have never let them drop below 12.6 volts except when using inverter

John
userGoneoff
Posted: 26 June 2020 12:31 PM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 
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Location: Leicestershire


bounty hunter - 2020-06-26 11:01 AM

I have 3 x 140 amp Numax Gel batteries which are 9 years old and still give good service. I have never let them drop below 12.6 volts except when using inverter

John


Hi John

What size are the Numax you have? Do they fit my criteria of being 330mm long?

Cheers

Phil
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 26 June 2020 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 


50005000500020001000500100
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


The Enduroline EXV135 and Lucas LX35MF batteries have nominal dimensions of 330mm (length) x 175mm (width) x 242mm (height), with the positive (live) terminal on the front-left corner of the battery’s upper surface.

Feeding that specification into Tayna’s ‘Battery Wizard’ produces the following result

https://tinyurl.com/ya4osah3

Many of the entries are for gel or AGM batteries (so quite expensive) but this Leoch wet-acid product might be worth considering

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-120ah-leoch-adventurer-leisure-battery-sfl-120dt/

(It largely depends on how Phil plans to use his motorhome (Whatever make, model and age it is...) and how much he is prepared to pay for the replacement batteries.)
usermikefitz
Posted: 26 June 2020 4:10 PM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 
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When comparing battery capacities check at what rate the value is specified for. The 120 Leoch in the above link is 120Ah at the 100 hour rate and only 92Ah at the 20 hour rate.

If the battery charger has a setting for AGM batteries then, in my view, the safety aspect of a contained electrolyte and no gassing has advantages in a motor home application.

I have been impressed with the cost/performance of Leoch LAGM130 from alpha batteries, (117Ah at 20 hr rate)
https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-130ah-leoch-adventurer-agm-leisure-battery-lagm130/
Very well packaged from Alpha and if you order by phone may give more discount and even add for free normal battery posts converters for the bolt down terminals ( if your existing system has normal battery connectors).
If the budget can be increased then the Exide EP900, AGM, may be worth considering,
https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-100ah-exide-ep900-dual-agm-leisure-battery-ncc-class-a/

The generic branded starter batteries considered by the OP, the EXV135 and the LX35MF (perhaps even the same battery) are not deep cycle batteries, but if a wet battery is a requirement with the 330 length then either of these are a reasonable buy for a few years use.

Mike
userGoneoff
Posted: 26 June 2020 5:17 PM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 
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Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-26 2:19 PM

The Enduroline EXV135 and Lucas LX35MF batteries have nominal dimensions of 330mm (length) x 175mm (width) x 242mm (height), with the positive (live) terminal on the front-left corner of the battery’s upper surface.

Feeding that specification into Tayna’s ‘Battery Wizard’ produces the following result

https://tinyurl.com/ya4osah3

Many of the entries are for gel or AGM batteries (so quite expensive) but this Leoch wet-acid product might be worth considering

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-120ah-leoch-adventurer-leisure-battery-sfl-120dt/

(It largely depends on how Phil plans to use his motorhome (Whatever make, model and age it is...) and how much he is prepared to pay for the replacement batteries.)


Thank you Derek, I will take a look at the Leoch
userGoneoff
Posted: 26 June 2020 5:23 PM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 
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Location: Leicestershire


mikefitz - 2020-06-26 4:10 PM

When comparing battery capacities check at what rate the value is specified for. The 120 Leoch in the above link is 120Ah at the 100 hour rate and only 92Ah at the 20 hour rate.

If the battery charger has a setting for AGM batteries then, in my view, the safety aspect of a contained electrolyte and no gassing has advantages in a motor home application.

I have been impressed with the cost/performance of Leoch LAGM130 from alpha batteries, (117Ah at 20 hr rate)
https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-130ah-leoch-adventurer-agm-leisure-battery-lagm130/
Very well packaged from Alpha and if you order by phone may give more discount and even add for free normal battery posts converters for the bolt down terminals ( if your existing system has normal battery connectors).
If the budget can be increased then the Exide EP900, AGM, may be worth considering,
https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-100ah-exide-ep900-dual-agm-leisure-battery-ncc-class-a/

The generic branded starter batteries considered by the OP, the EXV135 and the LX35MF (perhaps even the same battery) are not deep cycle batteries, but if a wet battery is a requirement with the 330 length then either of these are a reasonable buy for a few years use.

Mike

Appreciate your help Mike
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 27 June 2020 7:56 AM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 


50005000500020001000500100
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Based on Phil’s earlier postings I believe his motorhome is a Laika Kreos 4009 model. I can’t find any indication of its age, though the vehicle was evidently bought secondhand (from Southdowns?) in mid-2019.

In this November 2019 forum thread

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Engine-drain-any-help-would-be-appreciated/53668/

Phil mentioned the motorhome’s starter-battery discharging while the vehicle was on a storage site with no 230V hook-up, though at that time the leisure batteries (2 x 110Ah) were apparently OK.

I notice that there have been leisure-battery-related discussions (arguments) here in the past where there’s been a battery length-limit of 330mm. Although Phil’s wish for high-as-possible Ah batteries would not be satisfied, the Exide ES950 85Ah was usually mentioned in those threads.

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-exide-es950-marine-and-multifit-gel-leisure-battery-g85/
usercolin
Posted: 27 June 2020 9:41 AM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 


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If size and AH are important there is the option to be explored of Li-ion, but that is expensive and may involve other work.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 27 June 2020 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 


50005000500020001000500100
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


It might be useful if Phil said how old his Laika motorhome is.

It also might be helpful if Phil identified the batteries that he plans to replace. In his original posting he asked about “a better wet acid” battery, so it’s tempting to think that’s the type the Laika currently has - but that’s just guesswork.
userGoneoff
Posted: 27 June 2020 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 
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Posts: 58
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Location: Leicestershire


Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-27 7:56 AM

Based on Phil’s earlier postings I believe his motorhome is a Laika Kreos 4009 model. I can’t find any indication of its age, though the vehicle was evidently bought secondhand (from Southdowns?) in mid-2019.

In this November 2019 forum thread

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Engine-drain-any-help-would-be-appreciated/53668/

Phil mentioned the motorhome’s starter-battery discharging while the vehicle was on a storage site with no 230V hook-up, though at that time the leisure batteries (2 x 110Ah) were apparently OK.

I notice that there have been leisure-battery-related discussions (arguments) here in the past where there’s been a battery length-limit of 330mm. Although Phil’s wish for high-as-possible Ah batteries would not be satisfied, the Exide ES950 85Ah was usually mentioned in those threads.

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-exide-es950-marine-and-multifit-gel-leisure-battery-g85/


You are correct Derek it is a Laika Kreos 4009, previously I had a Rapido which you helped me out with when the boiler went down whilst we were in France. Again you are correct about me losing charge with my engine battery when in storage, in truth, this together with running out of power when we were in Spain during Winter this year is the reason for me reconfiguring my electric power. The 100ah solar already on the roof was only charging the leisure batteries 2 x 75ah Varta batteries. I am now going to run the original solar to a dual controller and try initially a split of 40% to engine battery 60% to leisure batteries. I then plan installing 2 x 120ah solar panels run separately through a new mppt Victron controller. I know the current Varta’s (only a year old) are superb batteries but they are just not big enough for our needs. That’s why I need the battery brand advice because one thing I do know is the battery industry is full of skullduggery, re-labelling and even re-labelling of regular car batteries as deep-cycle batteries!
Many thanks Derek for your response and interest.
userGoneoff
Posted: 27 June 2020 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 
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Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-27 10:59 AM

It might be useful if Phil said how old his Laika motorhome is.

It also might be helpful if Phil identified the batteries that he plans to replace. In his original posting he asked about “a better wet acid” battery, so it’s tempting to think that’s the type the Laika currently has - but that’s just guesswork.


Sorry, it's a 2013 Laika and the batteries are 2 x 75ah Varta batteries only a year old and I know are one of the better brands you can buy, but they are just not big enough for our off grid needs as this winter proved. I don't abuse batteries mind and never take them lower than 70% even though everyone will shout out that I can.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 27 June 2020 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Received wisdom is that - to maximise longevity - wet-acid leisure batteries should not be discharged below 50% Depth Of Discharge (DOD).

Earlier in this thread Keithl mentioned Varta's LFS 105 battery. As this would meet your dimensions requirement, and still seems to be advertised by several vendors, why not go for that?
usermikefitz
Posted: 27 June 2020 2:31 PM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 
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Phil, may I sugest you I install the extra solar and controller as planned and see how the existing batteries perform. The concept of not dropping below 50% charge is questionable and using 60 to 70 % of a fully charged battery is not going to have dire conquences. Your batteries are ageing even if not discharged at all so why not use them?
Many motorhome charging systems do not fully charge the batteries which is a major cause of short battery life. Your new Victron charger will completly charge, as it monitors current and only completes the charge process when the charging current falls to a low value.
I think you will find that the increased solar performance will have a significant positive effect on your battery system.
Mike
userPCC
Posted: 28 June 2020 9:03 AM
Subject: RE: Battery help required. Which one?
 
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I think that the effect of disgharging a lead acid battery beyond 50% is perhaps more serious than you are suggesting. If you look at information supplied by Exide (for convenience you can find it from links from their batteries on the Tayna website) there is a graph that shows that going beyond 50% has a significant effect.

At 50% DOD their Dual lead acid battery will last for 250 cycles, Dual AGM for 750 cycles and gel for about 900 cycles. Take the battery down to 70% and the numbers fall to something like 170, 550 and 750 cycles repectively, so quite a significant reduction for the lead acid battery. In other words, you will reduce the life of a lead acid battery by about a third.

I've only used information for Exide because it is easy to find, but I've always understood that Exide produce reasonably high quality batteries - the effect on a lower quality battery is likely to be even greater.

I do agree with the other points that you make.

Peter
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