Smooth Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Hi all Currently in the middle of scotland and seem to have developed a problem with leisure battery. Van not been used for 6 months but had a full service before we set off. It's 2011 autotrail Cherokee. Now for the problem!! When we're on site and plugged in the panel is showing both the engine and leisure battery as fully charged. As soon as we unplug from sites electric and revert fridge to 12v the leisure battery says it as no charge and the warning buzzer comes on? Had the van for 3 years now and not changed the leisure battery, could it just be a failed battery? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 You do not state the make of 12V electrical system installed in your van, so I am unable to offer other than a few emergency suggestions. At first reading it seems that you have no effective habitation battery. This could be due to the battery not being given a refresher charge during the previous six months. If the battery has not failed completely, it should have regained some charge as you drove to your present location. However may I suggest that you check that the battery terminal connections are tight, and not corroded. A further simple action would be to check that the habitation battery fuse is sound, and that its terminals are not corroded. You should note that the fridge will not take any 12V power until the engine is running, and hence the alternator is providing power. As regards the voltage indicated on the 12V control panel, what you are seeing is most probably the mains charger output voltage. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth Posted September 26, 2018 Author Share Posted September 26, 2018 Thanks Alan All I can tell you is that the unit is a sergeant. Will check the terminals tomorrow and fuse. That's the weird thing. When I drove up here, everything seemed fine. Fridge was running off 12v for a good 10 minutes before we set up and plugged into the site electric. I came off the first site. I unplugged from the site electric and all was fine, panel showed both batteries fully charged. Then within a couple of minutes leisure battery showing completely flat!?!? Now, as I said when plugged in both batteries show fully charged until I unplug when the leisure battery drops to showing completely flat. Again thanks for the reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Reads like dead battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 spirou - 2018-09-27 4:13 AM Reads like dead battery I was thinkng more like no battery, otherwise the charger would be struggling. An indication of charging current would assist with that diagnosis. Smooth, Understanderbly in the circumstances, you do not seem to have picked up on my comments about the fridge taking power on 12V only when the engine is running. With some 12V wiring systems it is possible for the fridge to discharge the habitation battery as you drive. This happens when habitation battery charging connection from the starter battery/alternator is defective, either with a poor connection, faulty components, or a blown fuse. However in your case I would expect the mains charger to at least partially recharge your habitation battery. If you have access to a multimeter, check the voltage directly across your habitation battery, it should read over 13V when connected to EHU. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Smooth - 2018-09-26 9:57 PM Hi all, Currently in the middle of scotland and seem to have developed a problem with leisure battery. Van not been used for 6 months but had a full service before we set off. It's 2011 autotrail Cherokee. Now for the problem!! When we're on site and plugged in the panel is showing both the engine and leisure battery as fully charged. As soon as we unplug from sites electric and revert fridge to 12v the leisure battery says it as no charge and the warning buzzer comes on? Had the van for 3 years now and not changed the leisure battery, could it just be a failed battery? Cheers I am guessing you have a Sargent EC225, or similar, possibly with the Nordelettronica NE143_MH charger installed inside the Power Controller housing? It sounds to me like a duff battery, especially if the battery is 3 years old and the vehicle was unused for 6 months? I don't know but would guess the battery was already 'exhausted', down below 80% capacity, and this latest trip has finished it off. Either way, if the battery is at least that old and the likes of Numax, Platinum, etc. it is likely to be well past it's best anyway. Suggest you try a battery first, ideally a big name manufacturer as they can, literally, be 3 times the battery a 'budget' is for no more money. See the comparison between a budget and a big name battery here - http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php where a LOWER cost BIG name battery beats a budget 3 : 1 on life. TIP : We advise that whenever the Starter battery is replaced at any time, a quality Dual Purpose Leisure/Starter battery is used to replace it, like the now legendary Varta LFD90. That way you always have a 'backup' battery that can be used in an emergency to replace the other, in situations like this. Also, by adopting such an approach, the lightly used Starter battery can be swapped with the heavily used Leisure battery after about 3 years use (when the 'old' Leisure battery will still have lots of life left) to prolong the lives of both batteries to about 6 - 8 years. Note that despite the Varta LFD90 Leisure battery being the best Leisure battery in it's class, it also outperforms most OEM standard Starter batteries, it is that good. Check out the review above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth Posted September 27, 2018 Author Share Posted September 27, 2018 Thanks all for the response Alan - wasn't that I didn't pick up on what you said, I'm just not technically minded so I usually leave this sort of stuff for the professionals. I do appreciate the help though. Will be on way back home on Saturday so will get it booked in somewhere and get it all checked out. Not sure if it helps but this was today's events.... Unplugged at the site this morning and everything looked fine. Panel was saying both batteries fully charged and fridge running on 12v. Started the van up and drove approx 85 miles to next site. Stopping for fuel (engine off) on route. Everything fine. Pulled up outside reception to go and pay for a pitch and came back out to van bleeping and panel again saying leisure battery flat. Again, not sure if that helps all your explanations or not!?! Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Still looks like a dead battery unable to hold any real charge under load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Smooth - 2018-09-27 8:09 PM Panel was saying both batteries fully charged and fridge running on 12v. If you can run your fridge on 12 V without the engine running then something is not right! May I suggest if you CAN run your fridge without the engine running that you DO NOT until you have had the system tested and fixed. This is a surefire way to flatten your batteries and ruin further them and possibly damage your alternator and/or charger as well. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 It's either a compressor fridge which will run without engine on, or simply a feature whereas the fridge isn't actually running, but also hasn't switched to gas yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth Posted September 27, 2018 Author Share Posted September 27, 2018 I think it's actually the fridge which starts to bleep out and then the panel says leisure battery low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Smooth - 2018-09-27 9:08 PM I think it's actually the fridge which starts to bleep out and then the panel says leisure battery low A 2011 AutoTrail will almost certainly be a 3 way fridge (ie not a compressor) but is it a manual energy select or automatic (AES)? If AES then try physically switching it off before you switch the engine off as this may just help a little. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Smooth - 2018-09-27 8:09 PM Thanks all for the response Alan - wasn't that I didn't pick up on what you said, I'm just not technically minded so I usually leave this sort of stuff for the professionals. I do appreciate the help though. Will be on way back home on Saturday so will get it booked in somewhere and get it all checked out. Not sure if it helps but this was today's events.... Unplugged at the site this morning and everything looked fine. Panel was saying both batteries fully charged and fridge running on 12v. Started the van up and drove approx 85 miles to next site. Stopping for fuel (engine off) on route. Everything fine. Pulled up outside reception to go and pay for a pitch and came back out to van bleeping and panel again saying leisure battery flat. Again, not sure if that helps all your explanations or not!?! Thanks again The day's events could be due to a failing battery as spirou and others suggest. However they could also be explained by the fridge being supplied from the 12V distribution board (as in CBE systems), and a faulty connection between the alternator/ starter battery and the 12V distribution board. If this were the case the habitation battery could be charged from the mains (EHU) charger. However when driving the fridge would be taking in the region of 15A from the habitation battery. Given that this battery is no longer in prime condition, it could be completely discharged during the days driving. This explains battery not alarming at fuel stop, but failing at campsite reception. With current ambient temperatures it should be quite possible to drive with the fridge switched OFF, provided that it has previously been cooled by either gas, or 240V. (We have done this accidently without serious effects on the contents.) If the battery still has some charge remaining at the end of the journey, then charging of the habitation battery from the alternator is suspect. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Alan et al, You can download the wiring schematics for a 2011 AutoTrail Cherokee from the Sargent Electrical website here... https://sargentltd.co.uk/tech-support/article/Auto-Trail-Schematics/26 And looking at 'Power circuits' on page 2 the fridge is fed directly from the EM40 fuse unit so I think it is unlikely for the failure to occur as you have explained. ie being fed only from the leisure battery whilst driving. I appreciate this failure can happen with CBE equipment but AT use Sargent equipment and do not wire the fridge load from the leisure battery. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Keith, Thanks for the link to Sargent's web site which I have visited on a previous occasion. I applaud their use of Lucas style colour abbreviations e.g. N=brown, U =Blue etc, and their ordering the abbreviations key in resistor colour code order. However their what is diplayed is a series of wiring diagrams, and not schematics. (Perhaps I am being too pedantic.) I usually find myself nodding in agreement with your posts, but on this occasion I beg to differ. I agree that the fridge is fed via the EM40 unit into which the vehicle (starter) battery feeds, but if you postulate a poor connection in the route from the starter battery, then where does the fridge draw its power from when the batteries are coupled via a split charge relay? I regret that this may be too advanced for Smooth, but I maintain that my suggestion to turn the fridge OFF during today's trip could reveal useful information. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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