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Batterys again!
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userViolet1956
Posted: 3 February 2019 7:14 PM
Subject: Batterys again!
 


20005001002525


Oh dear, since we are motorhoming virgins the fact that we have left our van over the winter in our drive doing nothing to preserve the condition of either the starter battery or habitation battery it comes as no surprise that the engine won’t start. It had a new starter battery last year and the alternator was replaced. How likely is it that we shall be able to recover the situation? Batteries and the complications that come with them are a complete mystery to me. Any tips on how we should progress from here?
useraandncaravan
Posted: 3 February 2019 7:32 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 
Forum master

Posts: 2216
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Location: Conwy, North Wales


What ever you do, don't jump start the vehicle or allow anyone else to or the least that may happen is another Alternator bill.

Both batteries are likely to be be destroyed by Sulphation, unless very high quality?.

Sorry but the safest advice (and usually the cheapest as it doesn't risk other damage) is to remove both and get them charged up in the shed/garage. Then leave them two weeks and get them tested. Very important to leave them at least a few days before testing.

Be ready to shell out for two new ones.

Our advice would be to fit two new Yuasa L36-EFB batteries, one for the Starter and one for the habitation area battery at £120 each or two Varta LFD90's at about £105ea.
Should you have any issues in the future you can swap the batteries around as they are all Dual purpose and interchangeable.




Edited by aandncaravan 2019-02-03 7:45 PM
userViolet1956
Posted: 3 February 2019 7:39 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


20005001002525


So kind of you to reply so quickly. I will pass on your advice to 'im indoors.
userViolet1956
Posted: 3 February 2019 7:50 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


20005001002525


My dear OH has an idea. Perhaps the van can be connected to the mains so that the onboard charger for the leisure battery can try and do its job. I don't pretend to understand what he is on about .
useraandncaravan
Posted: 3 February 2019 9:33 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 
Forum master

Posts: 2216
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Location: Conwy, North Wales


Most motorhome chargers are not designed to bring up a Starter battery and habitation battery from flat, hence all the advice to keep them highly charged, or at least above 50%.

That was why I said remove them and charge them on a Car battery charger in the shed/garage.


Get ready for fireworks if you connect EHU with dead, and most likely damaged, batteries.

Edited by aandncaravan 2019-02-03 9:33 PM
userViolet1956
Posted: 3 February 2019 9:45 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


20005001002525


Many thanks for your advice. Will pass it on to the OH. I wouldn't have a clue about how to take out the batteries. All I know is that we have a shed with power so there is hope.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 4 February 2019 8:12 AM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


50005000500010001001001001002525
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Violet1956 - 2019-02-03 7:14 PM

Oh dear, since we are motorhoming virgins...


Assuming that Violet’s motorhome has not been replaced since it was purchased by her in February 2016, the vehicle is a 2006 Rapido 746F model based on a Fiat Ducato with 2.8litre motor. (Example in attached photo).



(rapido 746f.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments rapido 746f.jpg (102KB - 25 downloads)
userViolet1956
Posted: 4 February 2019 9:29 AM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


20005001002525


Spot on Derek. It was treated much the same over the winter of 2017 and there were no problems. It has a solar panel but Lord knows what difference that makes. I bet the seasoned motorhomers on here realise what chumps we are.
userViolet1956
Posted: 4 February 2019 9:32 AM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


20005001002525


...and if it is not asking too much of andacaravan can he explain to me why the starter battery and the leisure battery have to be removed for charging? I need to persuade the OH that it is imperative that he doesn't try to charge them in situ.


Edited by Violet1956 2019-02-04 9:36 AM
useraandncaravan
Posted: 4 February 2019 9:52 AM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 
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Posts: 2216
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Location: Conwy, North Wales


Violet1956 - 2019-02-04 9:32 AM

...and if it is not asking too much of andacaravan can he explain to me why the starter battery and the leisure battery have to be removed for charging? I need to persuade the OH that it is imperative that he doesn't try to charge them in situ.


Many of the so called Car battery Smart chargers have 'desulphation' phases that will charge the battery at a much higher voltage than ideal to try and break up any sulphation crystals, which your starter battery is likely to have and possibly the habitation battery?

If the battery is in situ when the desulphation phase of up to 17v kicks in, you might suffer damage of things like Fridge controller, heating controller, Fiat body control ECU (very easily spiked and expensive), etc.
If the charger is connected the wrong way around it can again spike the electrics, as can shorting, etc.
Also a battery that has been flat for a while will be damaged, so the risk of gassing/battery explosion is better to happen in the shed.

The battery doesn't need to be completely removed, just disconnecting the Earth leads might do it, just easier to explain and covers all bases to avoid expensive damage.



Edited by aandncaravan 2019-02-04 10:03 AM
userViolet1956
Posted: 4 February 2019 10:10 AM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


20005001002525


Blimey! Blowing the motorhome and him up! Mind you he says that could solve 2 of my problems at once.


Edited by Violet1956 2019-02-04 10:10 AM
userViolet1956
Posted: 4 February 2019 12:50 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


20005001002525


oops just noticed my spelling blunder re "batteries"
userViolet1956
Posted: 5 February 2019 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


20005001002525


Update. Thanks to all the expert advice, especially from andacaravan, we have managed to start up the van and charge the leisure battery. Now thinking about heading to the Alps in early March with the dog and our skis despite our very dodgy knees. If anyone has a cure for dodgy knees please let me know.

Veronica

Edited by Violet1956 2019-02-05 9:27 PM
userweldted
Posted: 5 February 2019 10:23 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 
Has lots to offer

Posts: 433
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Location: Elddis Aspire 255


Just be aware your batteries performance may be badly affected having been allowed to run flat.
userViolet1956
Posted: 5 February 2019 10:28 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


20005001002525


Weldted, I suspect your warning is wise. Neverthless it's not the end of the world. Next stop an MOT, service and overdue habcheck. This motorhoming lark can prove expensive if you're as clueless as we are.

Edited by Violet1956 2019-02-05 10:42 PM
usermikefitz
Posted: 5 February 2019 11:49 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 
Liking what I've found

Posts: 53
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Location: Silves, Portugal


For anyone considering Yuasa L36-EFB batteries, Halfords stock this rebranded at £105.

Mike





(Battery 1.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Battery 1.jpg (21KB - 26 downloads)
userspirou
Posted: 6 February 2019 8:24 AM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


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Location: SI, PVC X250 Citroën


Violet1956 - 2019-02-05 10:26 PM

If anyone has a cure for dodgy knees please let me know.


There you go: https://www.wildsnow.com/25674/roam-robotics-elevate-ski-exoskeleton/
useraandncaravan
Posted: 6 February 2019 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 
Forum master

Posts: 2216
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Location: Conwy, North Wales


mikefitz - 2019-02-05 11:49 PM

For anyone considering Yuasa L36-EFB batteries, Halfords stock this rebranded at £105.

Mike




Mike, You are right but the warranty is shorter and they won't post them out to people in more remote areas.

The Alpha Batteries price includes shipping (I think close to £15) which will be discounted if you collect, they will also give a very small discount if you mention us.
So as we have said before the Alpha Batteries price ends up pretty close to the Halfords price you quote above, but with a longer warranty..

Alpha Batteries are also trying to change the battery retail business from within by pioneering the publishing of more relevant data and trying to help stamp out the gross mis-selling by some wholesalers and retailers.

I would suggest that when prices are pretty much the same, they deserve our support?



Edited by aandncaravan 2019-02-06 8:38 AM
userweldted
Posted: 6 February 2019 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 
Has lots to offer

Posts: 433
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Location: Elddis Aspire 255


Alp's March = cold temp puts strain on batteries and low temp effects performance new batteries now in UK verses new batteries away much more expensive. I have two Yuasa L36-EFB very pleased with them.
userViolet1956
Posted: 6 February 2019 7:27 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


20005001002525


Well so far so good. The van has started and the leisure battery is taking a charge. The OH is unlikely to shell out for new batteries although as a cautious soul myself I would follow that advice. If we do go away to the Alps in March and become unstuck it will be one of those lessons in life. Prudence doesn't really fit in our family mantra; taking chances however daft has always held sway.
userbigjohnthecat
Posted: 18 February 2019 12:05 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 
Having a look around

Posts: 22



I had exactly the same cost me for a new engine battery Bosch & 2 110ah leisure batteries ! But i have bit the bullet and had an 150 watt solar panel fitted and it spilts 80 / 20 engine/leisure so far after a month of layng up no problem with starting all battery's fully charged!
useryoko8pups
Posted: 18 February 2019 3:01 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 
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2 somewhat related questions if I may, if not just delete my post.
1. How long is the guarantee on Varta batteries?
2. How much does it cost to fit a 150w solar panel?
TIA
userWill86
Posted: 18 February 2019 5:00 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


1000500100252525
Location: Gatwick. Rapido 987 M. Now a VW Nexa


Violet1956 - 2019-02-04 9:29 AM

I bet the seasoned motorhomers on here realise what chumps we are.


Violet, I don't think that is so as many have a lack of electrics, BUT when offered some of the best advise ... it does appear to be totally ignored when two potentially useless batteries are about to be subjected to mountain temperatures day and night.
usermonique.hubrechts@gm
Posted: 18 February 2019 5:41 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1313
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Location: essen belgium


The only thing i am aware off is my electric circuit. Engine generator, and his starter battery under the engine bay. And house battery. And solar. They work like water towers, and try to equal pressure. They communicate. High voltage goes to low voltage. And everything what regulates it. The worst case a short circuit near the batteries. A question is never stupid, but the answer can be.
userViolet1956
Posted: 18 February 2019 6:03 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


20005001002525


Will86 - 2019-02-18 5:00 PM

Violet1956 - 2019-02-04 9:29 AM

I bet the seasoned motorhomers on here realise what chumps we are.


Violet, I don't think that is so as many have a lack of electrics, BUT when offered some of the best advise ... it does appear to be totally ignored when two potentially useless batteries are about to be subjected to mountain temperatures day and night.


I think it was excellent advice Will I just can't get the old man, who has ingrained maverick tendencies, to agree to do that. Hoping that a habitation check will persuade him otherwise. We went through Germany without winter tyres on our first skiing trip despite my protestations regarding the law and the foolishness of doing so. Only when he nearly lost control of it on a steep incline into a campsite was I able to persuade him they were a must for our second trip. Despite all that he has many good qualities.

Edited by Violet1956 2019-02-18 6:03 PM
userViolet1956
Posted: 18 February 2019 6:08 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


20005001002525


monique.hubrechts@gm - 2019-02-18 5:41 PM

The only thing i am aware off is my electric circuit. Engine generator, and his starter battery under the engine bay. And house battery. And solar. They work like water towers, and try to equal pressure. They communicate. High voltage goes to low voltage. And everything what regulates it. The worst case a short circuit near the batteries. A question is never stupid, but the answer can be.


I always had a problem at school when being taught about electrical circuits Monique. I think I just switched off during the lessons-probably preferred looking at the boy I was madly in love with.

Edited by Violet1956 2019-02-18 6:10 PM
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 18 February 2019 6:14 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


50005000500010001001001001002525
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


yoko8pups - 2019-02-18 3:01 PM

2 somewhat related questions if I may, if not just delete my post.
1. How long is the guarantee on Varta batteries?
2. How much does it cost to fit a 150w solar panel?
TIA


1: As the link below will show, the warranty duration will depend on which Varta battery is involved. The Varta ‘car’ starter-batteries have a 3-year, 4-year or 5-year warranty for (respectively) the Black Dynamic, Blue Dynamic or Silver Dynamic ranges. Batteries in the Varta LFD Leisure Batteries range apparently have a 2-year warranty.

https://www.tayna.co.uk/brands/varta/

2: The price of a 150W solar panel would depend on its type and quality. Installation costs would depend on the type of panel chosen, the motorhome to which it is to be fitted, how difficult the panel would be to fit and how long the work would take (and what the installer’s profit margin is). Suggest you browse through the results of a GOOGLE-search on "motorhome solar panel installation cost” shown in the link below.

https://tinyurl.com/y2uzoc74
usermonique.hubrechts@gm
Posted: 18 February 2019 6:56 PM
Subject: RE: Batterys again!
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1313
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Location: essen belgium


Here is table what really matters. 10.7V is flat. 12.7 is full. I run last weekend sunny but very cold night whit my webasto air top 2000 full on at night, and a isolated pop up roof for two nights. And whit two house hold(HH) bats i read at breakfast 12.3 v= 50 percent. The webasto was constantly running all night.
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