You are logged in as a guest. 
  Home Forums Home  Search our Forums Search our Forums    Log in to the Forums Log in to the Forums  register Register on the Forums  

 Forums ->  Motorhomes -> Motorhome Matters
Jump to page : FirstPrevious 1 2 Last
Format:  Go
Boxer/Ducato/Relay - Speedometer difficult to read in daylight
AuthorMessage
userTracker
Posted: 6 December 2018 6:07 PM
Subject: RE: Boxer/Ducato/Relay - Speedometer difficult to read in daylight
 


500020001000500100100100100252525
Location: Vanless in Evesham.


Thanks Derek, my apologies I got confused.
A GPS HUD does not appeal to me!!
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 6 December 2018 6:17 PM
Subject: RE: Boxer/Ducato/Relay - Speedometer difficult to read in daylight
 


500050005000200010001001001002525
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


ColinM50 - 2018-12-06 5:25 PM

Appreciate that Tracker but thought giving them the opportunity of widening the info base might be helpful to them. Happy to call them and post their reply?

Phoned them but no reply. Will try tomorrow


I did mention to Lockwood your comment "you'd have thought they'd have changed the fuel and temperature gauge dials for white too” but (as I said above) the decision to leave that display’s background black was based on the same reasoning as leaving the lower section of the speedometer and tachometer dial-face black - it allows the warning symbols/lights to be show up better.

Exactly the same dial kits are provided for Boxers as for Ducatos

https://www.lockwoodinternational.co.uk/dials/mph/peugeot/a-z/boxer.html

and the black-on-white dial-face kit (Part No. 8329) just replaces the original speedometer and tachometer faces.

You could, of course, commission Lockwood to produce a black-on-white fuel/temperature display to complement the black-on-white speedometer/tachometer dials (though I suspect Lockwood might advise against it) or you could commission a kit with a black-on-white scale for the speedometer and tachometer with the lower section of both (and the fuel/temperature display) in a tasteful grey colour that would allow the warning symbols/lights to show up reasonably well.

As (to the best of my knowledge) Lockwood haven’t created a colour-changed fuel/temperature display, you’d need to anticipate that a one-off bespoke display would not be cheap (Ken Hall paid much more than £55 for Lockwood to provide the black-on-white dial-faces that they now advertise generally).

And don’t forget that, although you like the idea of a non-black fuel/temperature display, other people might not. I’ve attached a photo showing the white dial-faces and, personally, I prefer the fuel/temperature display having been left unchanged so that it complements the black lower section of the speedometer and tachometer dials.



(Ducato cluster.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Ducato cluster.jpg (140KB - 105 downloads)
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 7 December 2018 9:19 AM
Subject: RE: Boxer/Ducato/Relay - Speedometer difficult to read in daylight
 


500050005000200010001001001002525
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Regarding the cost of a ‘bespoke’ dial-face for a Boxer/Ducato/Relay, I notice (on the Practical Motorhome forum) that Lockwood has given a guide-price and also commented on why there is currently no ‘white dial’ kit for X290 Ducatos with ComfortMatic transmission

https://www.practicalmotorhome.com/forum/tech/2397-boxer-ducato-relay-speedometer-difficult-to-see#9091
userLockwood
Posted: 10 December 2018 2:53 PM
Subject: RE: Boxer/Ducato/Relay - Speedometer difficult to read in daylight
 


Just joined

Posts: 6

Location: Unit 7 Domestic Street Ind. Est. Leeds LS11 9RT


Hi Everybody,
we are going to start to produce the white dials for the Automatic model in the next few days.
Also you will be pleased to hear that we are going to include the Fuel and Temp' gauge in the set.
Lockwood Int.
userDeneb
Posted: 10 December 2018 5:05 PM
Subject: RE: Boxer/Ducato/Relay - Speedometer difficult to read in daylight
 
Lives on the forums

Posts: 535
50025
Location: Vantage Sol PVC


On the face of it (no pun intended!) these dials look to be an improvement in clarity over the standard dials, although I can't say the original dials have troubled me greatly, unlike some.

I wonder how they fare with the dashboard illumination though. My X290 has backlit instrument lighting which has an orange colouration visible through the white figures on the dials. I understand that the black ink used on the white dials is a special translucent ink to allow the backlit illumination to show through similar to the original dials. I just wonder how much more visible this actually makes the dials in practice. Probably not much different at night unless the white dial faces are somehow also illuminated by or reflecting an external light source, and in the daytime without any backlit illumination I can also envisage the visibility being much improved.

But as many (most?) X290s will either have had the software update to enable instrument illumination at all times or are now supplied with that as the default setting in the case of newer vehicles, I wonder what effect the backlighting shining through the figures on the instruments will have when contrasted against the white background in daylight?
userLockwood
Posted: 11 December 2018 8:16 AM
Subject: RE: Boxer/Ducato/Relay - Speedometer difficult to read in daylight
 


Just joined

Posts: 6

Location: Unit 7 Domestic Street Ind. Est. Leeds LS11 9RT


Hi,
the backlight is still amber at night. The white tends to silhouette so looks like the standard dial.
userronecc
Posted: 2 January 2019 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: Boxer/Ducato/Relay - Speedometer difficult to read in daylight
 


Just joined

Posts: 10



Just a thought. Whist owners are pondering which way to go with their speedo's, if you have a Tom Tom or some other satnav system, just attach it, as it should have a true mph readout. Maybe Tom Tom/Garmin could just produce one of their satnavs but just have a big speed readout in place of the maps, or an option to switch between speed and navigation.
usercolin
Posted: 2 January 2019 5:10 PM
Subject: RE: Boxer/Ducato/Relay - Speedometer difficult to read in daylight
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 8059
5000200010002525
Location: Bedfordshire, Globecar 636SB


ronecc - 2019-01-02 3:39 PM

Just a thought. Whist owners are pondering which way to go with their speedo's, if you have a Tom Tom or some other satnav system, just attach it, as it should have a true mph readout. Maybe Tom Tom/Garmin could just produce one of their satnavs but just have a big speed readout in place of the maps, or an option to switch between speed and navigation.


As I posted on another thread, you can get a speedo app for smart phones, from the screen shots they can have a large display, but I think most would like a standard speedo which they can read.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 2 January 2019 6:07 PM
Subject: RE: Boxer/Ducato/Relay - Speedometer difficult to read in daylight
 


500050005000200010001001001002525
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp



A wish to resize the 'speed-readout’ element of a sat-nav’s display was discussed here last week.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Which-sat-nav/50950/

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 22 October 2019 6:58 PM
Subject: RE: Boxer/Ducato/Relay - Speedometer difficult to read in daylight
 


500050005000200050025
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Yes, this is an old string, but it's a peg to hang a hat on!

Following my experience in the spring, when I was fined twice on the same day for speeding while relying on a defective sat nav for road speed indication (because the Fiat speedometer is so difficult to read), I concentrated more closely on the speedometer during our autumn trip. This exposed further deficiencies in reading the current (X290) speedometer in our van, that had not previously been apparent while I concentrated on the sat nav,

These fall into three categories.

First, the speedometer dial sits behind a transparent plastic screen. This is highly polished and, when driving toward the light, merely fills with reflections to the extent that, in sunlight, the dial itself is virtually invisible behind the reflections.

Second, when strong light comes through the (LHD) driver's side window, the curved shroud above the speedometer casts a shadow across it such that the left hand segment of the dial is in shade while the remainder is brightly lit, making the shaded portion virtually impossible to read. This is, of course, that portion of the dial that carries the values from 0 to 60 MPH, which is, of course, exactly the portion one most often needs to refer to!

Third, the KPH scale is only half the diameter (at approx. 40mm) of the MPH scale (approx. 85 mm dia.), and the numerals are also about half the size of those for MPH. This is exacerbated by the pointer which, on the MPH scale reaches to the edge of the printed scale, whereas it sits directly over the KPH scale and, due to its width, obscures approximately 5 KPH of the scale. It therefore becomes impossible to judge road speed to within 5kph - even assuming one can actually see the scales.

I have to confess I hadn't realised just what an appalling instrument this was until I tried relying on it to drive!

I returned puzzled as to whether there was an actual legal requirement to include a KPH scale on a MPH speedometer, or whether these scales were merely included as a conventional gesture for vehicles registered in countries that use imperial units of measurement.

What I found was that the UK Construction & Use Regulations 1986, part 4, call for a vehicle speedometer to be “Capable of indicating speed in miles per hour and kilometres per hour either simultaneously or separately”. “Capable of”, however, is not further defined!

The regulation also cites EC Directive 75/443 and regulation ECE39, both of which impose make similar statements where the vehicle is registered in a country that uses imperial units of measurement.

Further, that the standard of accuracy required by both 75/443 and ECE39 is that the speedometer shall be accurate to +/- 0.5%, but shall not (subject to clearly stated provisos) indicate a speed lower than actual velocity, and that all the above must have graduations in 1, 2, 5 , or 10 kph or mph, with values to be in multiples of 20 KPH/MPH.

This implies a high degree of accuracy in the instrument, in measuring both MPH and KPH, that I assume is intended allow a driver to know his speed with similar accuracy. Otherwise, what on earth is the point?

So does the current Fiat Ducato speedometer meet the requirement of the C&U etc. regulations? I don't see how it can, given its various shortcomings. I appreciate that Fiat have modified the scale illumination to be permanently on, but this illumination is only helpful in poor light, and is completely useless when the dial itself in strong light and unreadable due to shadows or reflections.

As an aside, it seems this problem is not unique to Ducatos and their Peugeot/Citroen clones, but spreads far wider, and that a number of cars also have difficult to read KPH speedometer scales. Recent reports of the large number of owners of UK registered vehicles being fined for speeding in France, leads me to wonder whether this is due to a general disregard for "foreign" speed limits among UK drivers, or to their difficulty in reading their speed in KPH.

One cannot drive safely while incessantly peering at a speedometer that will not reveal one's speed: one must pay some attention to road conditions as well as speed. I think this defect is a dangerous distraction, as well as one that places one at unreasonable risk of exceeding local speed limits.

So, I've written to the DfT to ask them their opinion, and asked whether a non-compliant speedometer is a ground for a recall to correct the fault. I think it should be. What to others think?
Jump to page : FirstPrevious 1 2 Last
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread
Jump to forum :


(Delete all cookies set by this site)(Return to Homepage)

Any problems? Contact the administrator